Quake3World

hi again,

the first beta of my q3a 1on1 map prejudice is available from

http://mapping.sp1r1t.de/quake3/prejudice/prejudice.pk3

i'd be very happy if some of you guys would give it a try and tell me what you think about it.

You have the basic skill needed for map making :icon14:.

Now on the map.
Style: could do with more varied textures, might want to add some detail as well. And is there any purpose to that glowing cross in the corner?

Layout: It's a small open map with fast connectivity, this makes it not well suited for tactics but it isn't a spamfest either. It has some potential.

Items: I suggest removing the red armor as both a RA and a MH is too much on a map of this size. Also I haven't found a way up to the MH-Jumppad except for rj. The weapons need to be shuffled as well in my opinion since I didn't feel really comfortable with any of the locations.


My opinion and I'm not that important in these parts but you'll have something to think about :icon1:

Played about on it for a few mins, not half bad.

Before testing item layout and such, I think you should look at sectioning off the level a bit more. We were very aware when playing that we were doing so inside a 'box' rather than a series of distinct rooms. So to cure that:

My first advice is to break up the outside walls of your level by introducing more big building structures and such (like the towers) which project down all the way to the floor, and are made from wall textures of varying colours. As this first shot shows, the level is a bit dark and the colours along the main walls are all very flat and similar:
[lvlshot]http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/6854/shot00030oa.jpg[/lvlshot]

here's an example of breaking up what would otherwise be a flat and simple wall section into a more varied surface:


The same goes for some of your floor surfaces. The wide open flat floor across the whole level lets the player know that they're playing inside what is basically a box. You can break up the main floor area by lofting maybe half of the entire floor area up to a different height. Perhaps two or three different heights for various areas of the floor.

The next shot demonstrates the texturing issue that Survivor comments on. The floors and walls in this shot are all made from the same or very similar textures, and large expanses thereof. The end result is being unable to distinguish the walls and floors of the structure:


The item layout and general approach are both solid.. you've added detailing on the floors and such in the way of broken surfaces, the whole level looks quite organic. You need to back that up with appropriate and varied texturing and by extending your detailing to the outside walls of the level, and you're onto a winner.

For info purposes, you can texture individual faces on blocks by holding down CTRL-ALT and left clicking on the surface you wish to texture.

Survivor wrote: Style: could do with more varied textures, might want to add some detail as well. And is there any purpose to that glowing cross in the corner?

Right, i'll try to make it more interesting by adding more different textures. The red cross doesn't have any use, it just fell down from the top of the wall.

Survivor wrote: Layout: It's a small open map with fast connectivity, this makes it not well suited for tactics but it isn't a spamfest either. It has some potential.

I wanted a small map where you will run into the other player no more than 15 seconds after spawning. But i thought about adding 1 or 2 tactic elements. Not sure what exactly i'll do, but i'll have a look at some of the osp maps.

Survivor wrote: Items: I suggest removing the red armor as both a RA and a MH is too much on a map of this size. Also I haven't found a way up to the MH-Jumppad except for rj. The weapons need to be shuffled as well in my opinion since I didn't feel really comfortable with any of the locations.

I had a haste in there at first (above the green slime) and that was by far too much, but there's still too much in there, i agree. do you think replacing the red armor with a yellow one will suffice? because i like the idea of having a reason too cross the broken bridge where the red armor currently is.

There is no way to reach the roof (and the MH jumppad) without a rocketjump, you're right. but there's 2 rocketlaunchers in there and some armor, so i don't consider this a problem. plus there's no place for stairs and i don't want a third jumppad. but what do you think of a teleporter somewhere (where?) that lead's to the roof?

On the weapon placement : maybe i'll read some mapping-for-gameplay-tutorial that describes how to improve that.

Thanks for your thoughts, they were helpfull.

Foo wrote: We were very aware when playing that we were doing so inside a 'box' rather than a series of distinct rooms.

I also felt that and i was (and am) not really happy with it.

Foo wrote: So to cure that:

My first advice is to break up the outside walls of your level by introducing more big building structures and such (like the towers) which project down all the way to the floor, and are made from wall textures of varying colours.

I get what you mean and it sounds quite obvious now that you mentioned it.

Foo wrote: As this first shot shows, the level is a bit dark and the colours along the main walls are all very flat and similar.
The same goes for some of your floor surfaces. The wide open flat floor across the whole level lets the player know that they're playing inside what is basically a box. You can break up the main floor area by lofting maybe half of the entire floor area up to a different height. Perhaps two or three different heights for various areas of the floor.

I'll try that, thanks for the ideas.

Foo wrote: The item layout and general approach are both solid.. you've added detailing on the floors and such in the way of broken surfaces, the whole level looks quite organic. You need to back that up with appropriate and varied texturing and by extending your detailing to the outside walls of the level, and you're onto a winner.

Thanks again for your opinions (too both Foo and Survivor), one seldomly gets such good advice in internet forums and i was pretty impressed when i returned here to find your posts. I'll post an updated version of the map that will include your suggestions (focussing on texturing, floor levels and the outer walls) in a few days.

a new version of my map is available.

changes include bot support, item placement, improved texturing and more details on the floor and outer walls/borders.

>> download prejudice-beta2 <<

your thoughts on this version are welcome.

Screenshots :

Broken tiles in the corner of the Megahealth shot is pretty neat. Dunno why but they really appeal to me :icon25:

I've got some time so i'll be nitpicky today

First up, something unimportant:
[lvlshot]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Drietand/mapping/shot0005.jpg[/lvlshot]

Maybe turn one of those tiles a couple degrees for a difference


Second small thing:
[lvlshot]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Drietand/mapping/shot0006.jpg[/lvlshot]

The top texture here is a continuation of the wall's sidetexture. It can be kept but maybe use a texture that signifies the wall broke off for some nice detail?


Third, big one this:



You broke the sections up quite nice. The circled areas are supposed to be organic I presume yet they are flat. Maybe use a patch to give it a bit of a uneven feel so they look more organic


Fourth, this is an idea:

[lvlshot]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Drietand/mapping/shot0002.jpg[/lvlshot][lvlshot]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Drietand/mapping/shot0003.jpg[/lvlshot]

Since you're new to mapping you haven't caulked this nor removed it for cleannes so that it wouldn't be an unnecessary burden on the fps. So you could clean it up.
Because you haven't though i've seen this however as an opportunity to add a corridor with maybe a stair to that one overlook where you could put another item and a stair to the high ground on one side.


Now that is out of the way on to the gameplay. This isn't against a human opponent so the item layout can't be said too much about by me but the gameplay opportunities are numerous. I've had a few spots where I've simply gotten the jump on the bot so for a human this means extra awareness needed. The gameplay itself thus is good. Item layout however needs to be tested against a human opponent. Foo, collaborate on that?

sorry for not answering for some days to your posts, i was on a short trip for some days.

Survivor wrote:I've got some time so i'll be nitpicky today
First up, something unimportant:
Maybe turn one of those tiles a couple degrees for a difference

Second small thing:
The top texture here is a continuation of the wall's sidetexture. It can be kept but maybe use a texture that signifies the wall broke off for some nice detail?

1st : why not? will be there in beta4
2nd : haven't found a fitting texture yet, but the idea sounds good.

Survivor wrote: Third, big one this:
You broke the sections up quite nice. The circled areas are supposed to be organic I presume yet they are flat. Maybe use a patch to give it a bit of a uneven feel so they look more organic

there's a >> third beta available << (i made it before reading your post so your ideas are not yet included). in beta3, the huge center area was changed dramatically, the smaller one only a little bit. i'll use a patch on that one in beta4 i think, thanks.

a major improvement of beta3 is the center area and a some walls and crates that were needed to cut down a bit on the very-long-distance railing.

Survivor wrote: Since you're new to mapping you haven't caulked this nor removed it for cleannes so that it wouldn't be an unnecessary burden on the fps. So you could clean it up.
Because you haven't though i've seen this however as an opportunity to add a corridor with maybe a stair to that one overlook where you could put another item and a stair to the high ground on one side.

i didnt clean it up because you can jump on the roof of one of the buildings and look over the wall. if it wasn't there, players would look down into the sky. i wanted to avoid that.

some walls could of course be caulked, you're right.

thanks for your efforts, i'll use them for beta4.

The final version of prejudice.pk3 is available.

1vs1 or TDM 2vs2 recommended.

>> download prejudice.pk3 (final) <<

Thanks again to everybody who playtested and helped.

Mirror of your map is available here.

roughrider wrote:Mirror of your map is available here.

Thanks for your efforts.

:icon30: