Quake3World

AEon's Tri-Arena - Beta 1 - a FFA / Team map for Q4

Current Q4 Screenshots for Beta 1

• 

Weapons/Items

• RG, RLx2, SGx2, GL, LG, HB, NG, RA, YAx2, MH, and Quad (plus lots of health and ammo).

Features

• Vaguely inspired by Q3A's DM7, geometry design strongly inspired by Q4DM1, built from scratch.
• Using Evillair's eX 512x texture set.
• New orange acceleration pads and teleporters.
• Using Q3A Skybox 'Iceflow' by Sock.
• Three new decals for AEons, Q3W LEM, and D3W.org.
• Oak Bots support via included .botaas32 file.
• Fully player clipped.
• Lighting without shadows for optimized MP frame rates.
• Ambient sounds.
• ...

Download

• map_aetri_beta1.zip (d/l, 5.50 MB) from FilePlanet

Feedback encouraged.

Browner!

First of all, well done indeed, its not far off the standard of the best maps, so keep it up.

- AE logo is a little poor.
- Box at RA is broken.
- Another brown map, its just brain numbing!
- Not Original, DM7 / fragging yard, very similar.

Stuff like shards along thin ledges are quite nice and add to gameplay.. so do boxes, but too many boxes on this map, just promotes slower gameplay if this many and not placed perfect

The ledge structure is nice idea, but far from perfect, I felt you could have run more with that idea, made it abit more original and natural looking.

Won't bother debating item placement, that can always be done last.

Nice Q3W logo

Nice contrast, winter outside, opposite inside.. if only the inside was more original.

I like the RA room, and using narrow hall ways nice with large spaces (else it is rail fest)

Though it feels like a map that has been constructed bit by bit instead of something more organic. Too many 90 degree turns to next route, not enough curves.. which is more important now with sliding in Q4.

Bottom line:
Nice map.
Better and more original visuals
More nautral/fluent geometry
More original geometry :icon31:

Only gripe i have is that there is no shadow, at all, really... Its just like a full on brown ambient map. You have no dynamic light coming from big things, likea nice big yellow light on the portal, or little red/green/blue/white etc lights plotted around the place. You seriiously need to re-add the outdoor sun lights for dynamic shadow and contrast in the outdoor bits as they look really bland else.

Fixed the download link, now back to Fileplanet download, since the original server crashed.

I ran around this a bit during lunch, and the layout is cool and fun to move around in. Weapon/item placement seems fairly solid at this point, but...

no shadows? At all?!?

"optimized MP frame rates"...well... okay, sure, that's admirable, but it really does make the map look like ass IMO.

It's quite possible to make a smooth-playing Q4 MP map with full lighting that looks nice. I'm not 100% sure it would be possible to have full lighting and shadows in a map that's this big/open and have it run smoothly, but...man...at least try. Why even make a map for Q4 if you're going to turn off the lighting? The gameplay isn't that different from Q3...

pjw,
Kat was saying the Q4 MP players are usually whiners about shadows.

In fact the map ran quite well with shadows, trouble were some shadow bugs. I.e. things look great in the editor Render Mode but ingame the lighting was broken.

But you are right, without shadows the map does not really look good. Reminds me of generic Half-Life 2 maps.

I found out that one of the problem seems to be one global huge light. Will go back and try using 3 sun-lights, one per outdoor area, that should help.

AEon wrote:I found out that one of the problem seems to be one global huge light. Will go back and try using 3 sun-lights, one per outdoor area, that should help.

That will probably clear things up. I had to do the same thing in pjw4dm1 (use separate sun lights in the outside bits). Single global shadow-casting lights spread over different areas separated by various portal configurations can unfortunately get kind of iffy...

Thanks for taking my post in the spirit which it was intended--a friend seemed to think that it seemed a bit harsh, and I didn't really intend that--just wanted to see a map look as good as possible.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with shadows in MP. Most "hardcore" players won't want them, but that's why they have Q4Max and its 'fullbright' setting. However, I know a few players who *do* use shadows because it can actually tip them off ast to the enemy or a freshly spawned armor a fraction of a second faster, thus giving them the edge. And then there's the casual gamer who will most likely want to enjoy the full Q4 experience, shadows and all.

I guess it is also a matter of laziness on my part. At some point you just want to have things done.

But working on FAQs again, and then getting back to mapping, the motivation to fix things and experiment is larger. Nice that lighting is in real time.

I will also experiment with another light color, maybe blue'ish or more yellow/orange instead of brown. Though I have the feeling the textures are kind of "brownish". My recent experiments in with blue lighting looked very weird though.


Something I also want to experiment with is layout. One of the JPs (near arena 2) has 2 exits. I am thinking of closing the exit that leads to area 1. Just to cut down on the large amount of shortcuts the player can take, making the map a tad too "unsafe" (meaning, an opponent can get into your back all over the place).

I'll rethink the rounding off of a few corners as well.

Another thing I am thinking about is the TP in the HB arena (arena 3). Maybe place the TP on the left wall, thus rotating it by 90 degrees.

KO wrote:AE logo is a little poor.

True, pretty much directly from my AEons page. But looks a bit strange on the wall. As if projected.

Box at RA is broken.
Hmmm... broken in what way?

Another brown map, its just brain numbing!
The number of "noticable" custom maps is at most 10, so brown should be ok for Q4 maps, for now.

Not Original, DM7 / fragging yard, very similar.
... well either you are very creative in the way you see "similar" or just read my inspiration comment. The map is still significantly different than either map, but obviously using some of the layout and gameplay elements, since they worked in the originals.

Stuff like shards along thin ledges are quite nice and add to gameplay.. so do boxes, but too many boxes on this map, just promotes slower gameplay if this many and not placed perfect
Usually that would be true, but your comment is too vague to actually help. IMO the boxed with YA in Arena 1 and 2 and RA on the box in Arena 3 work, and callenge the player.

The shards on the ledges still need some consistant idea. Still thinking about them.

The ledge structure is nice idea, but far from perfect, I felt you could have run more with that idea, made it abit more original and natural looking.
Again... a comment that sounds like "the sky is blue make it bluer"... IMO the more ledges would not really help. So I wonder what you mean. I am aware that there are a few interesting "simple jumps" and shortcuts possible by using ledges, and that is kinda fun. But I have no idea what to do to "improve" the situation.

Won't bother debating item placement, that can always be done last.
Well the map IMO is pretty close to final, so that item placement should already be an issue.

Nice Q3W logo


Nice contrast, winter outside, opposite inside.. if only the inside was more original.
Ahem.

Though it feels like a map that has been constructed bit by bit instead of something more organic. Too many 90 degree turns to next route, not enough curves.. which is more important now with sliding in Q4.
Hmmm... playing the map in Q3A was fun IMO, and really worked with the Bots on Hardcore. In Q4 I also had the feeling that something was not right in several areas. Alas I don't really know what to do about it. Closing off the double sides JP (near the LG) on one side would make the corridors near the RA more important. But other than that.

Hmmm... layout suggestions appreciated.

Better and more original visuals
The map is supposed to be Q2'ish / Q4'ish so nothing doing there. I have done enough original geometry in my other maps

More nautral/fluent geometry
That would be nice in a few areas.

The room with easy access to the rail, quad, ya, and mh seems like its gonna throw the map off as far as item placement goes. I haven't played it, I only ran around it for a sec, but thats just something that came to mind at first glance.

AEon wrote:pjw,
Kat was saying the Q4 MP players are usually whiners about shadows....

Yeah that was based on the feedback we got from the VIAcga map comp, the gamers there hated maps with really dark shadows.

The thing is, it looks like you've got no shading as well as no shadows which does make maps look odd; ambient material on a light? If you can bring those back in you'll already be more than halfway to getting a nice looking map even with noshadows (if that's the route you want to go down).

As wviperw said, the people who hate shadows probably play q4max and use vertex lighting.

DooMer wrote:The room with easy access to the rail, quad, ya, and mh seems like its gonna throw the map off as far as item placement goes.

Good comment. I am wondering where to better place the RG. I used to have another railgun in the other arena 2, where the LG presently is. Only IMO arena 2 is even more open, so that the Railgun here may be evil.

Maybe place the railgun in a more exposed position, e.g. on the square-tubing in arena 2. Presently I have shards on the tubing. Hmm.

It's nice to see somebody making something with new textures.. That said, I think there are some things worth changing, IMNVHO..

Clunkers:
Red Armour Room: the box NEXT to where the red armour spawns is marked non-solid.. Makes jumping here confusing.

High "heating duct" with armour shards.. The clipping brush extends pretty far onto this thing.. you can't walk all the way to the end, and it feels strange.

Lighting: especially in outdoor areas, it would be nice to have some shadows.. and maybe some colour variation? Since the outside is apparently bright blue sky making the mountains shimmer in bluish light, the lighting in outdoor areas might be blue-tinged? It would just feel more natural.

Tiny Nit-Picky Personal Taste Things:
Rust: Can it drip upwards? Cos me, I thought it couldn't... Those stains have to get that way SOMEhow..

Ceilings: the textures used for the cross braces might be a placeholder for later, and I recognize that.. But in case it isn't: it's fugly.

Boxes: Yes, it's a new texture, and we all appreciate that. But when you have a dozen boxes stacked next to the "heating duct" square tubing textures.. Visusally, it becomes a bunch of grey cubes. A little colour variation might be nice, and help players see the angles for jumping.. because there are some nice "lines" to take across the boxes and ramps in this level.

GODLIKE wrote:Red Armour Room: the box NEXT to where the red armour spawns is marked non-solid.. Makes jumping here confusing.

No idea how that happened but should be an easy fix.

High "heating duct" with armour shards.. The clipping brush extends pretty far onto this thing.. you can't walk all the way to the end, and it feels strange.
Been wondering about that as well. Presently my clipping is very restrictive. Will fix that as well, and in a few other areas too, to let the player e.g. slide off the outside gray walls too.

Lighting: especially in outdoor areas, it would be nice to have some shadows.. and maybe some colour variation? Since the outside is apparently bright blue sky making the mountains shimmer in bluish light, the lighting in outdoor areas might be blue-tinged? It would just feel more natural.
Technically the light would still be white, but you are right brownish/yellowish light does not really match. Blue-ish light looks crummy. At least from my first tests. Will experiment more with the lighting and shadows.

Rust: Can it drip upwards? Cos me, I thought it couldn't... Those stains have to get that way SOMEhow..
Raven did that in a few areas. You may have notices that I use a rust texture on the ledges where such "dripping rust" happens. IMO some "dripping up" could happen, if the trims on the floor were rusty, but to no extent the default texture show. So you have a point there. I'll see if that can be made more plausible. Maybe add a rusted metal edge in the crete walls.

Ceilings: the textures used for the cross braces might be a placeholder for later, and I recognize that.. But in case it isn't: it's fugly.
The gray-ish metalish'ish ones? Or the stripes? Hmmm... IMO they are ok.

Boxes: Yes, it's a new texture, and we all appreciate that. But when you have a dozen boxes stacked next to the "heating duct" square tubing textures.. Visusally, it becomes a bunch of grey cubes. A little colour variation might be nice, and help players see the angles for jumping.. because there are some nice "lines" to take across the boxes and ramps in this level.
Hmm... the boxes under the heating duct are completely clipped off, and placed there as visual clues that this area cannot be walked under. So I don't see the problem here. In other areas where a few boxes could be uses as "ramps" or more like stepping stones, these are too few to make them repetative IMO. About variation: Yo that may help.

It seems layout is not a primary issue.

Thanx for the feedback, some good points there.

Just played some 1 vs 1 on this map.. In FFA it might be less of a problem, but it seems that the rail gun's spawn spot is really, really easy to camp and hold down the fort until the quad spawns..

Your map, of course.. but just a thought: if the RG was more out of the way.. or in a more easily "spammable" location? It might even out the item flow a bit..

There are some great lines and crouch slides to be had on this map, though.. In fact, since the middle corridors are undesirable to be caught in for any reason, it's practically mandatory. Big fun. :icon25:

AEon wrote:I guess it is also a matter of laziness on my part. At some point you just want to have things done...Nice that lighting is in real time.

Just a note of warning: Lighting in Q4 can take quite a while to look its best. Getting each light positioned correctly, getting the center pulled/placed correctly (be sure to move the centers around on lights to get the best look, if you aren't already), picking color, picking material, fighting with light count, etc.

It's a good thing it's in real time, or it would probably take forever.

Nice map, should be fast with all the jumps you can do. Some early thoughts:

Obsidian,

• Pic1:
  You are right I need to fix that area. I had built that cleanly but then moved things around. Noted.
  
  Pic2:
  Floating decal... strange, that is the usual 0.25 unit. Will double check.
  
  Quad to close to MH
  Hmmm... I placed the MH in that corridor to motivate folks to use it more. In Q4DM1 the MH area only has a few Armor Shards.
  
  Maybe I could place the Quad into the other Arena (2) and make it float, accessible via LG acceleration pad. And make the MH float where the Quad presently is?
  
  Pic3:
  Odd ledge...
  That is in theme with the idea that only rusted ledges will show rust tracks on the walls below.
  
  Boxes too uniform...
  I shied away from rotating boxes because it makes texturing a pain. Then again in that area under the tubes one "would" optimize stacking if one were neat?! ... Will think about this.
  
  Pic4:
  Looks like glass no impact... ah... jo will clip it. And also add some more glass in the ceiling area here. I added that as a test decoration, but it should be consistent.
  
  Pic5:
  Metal beams... you are right... will change the texture.
  
  Pic6:
  I am not so sure about the amount of items. Only after testing Q4DM1 in the editor did I notice how much ammo has been spread out in the map. Even after playing it 40-50 times I never really noticed all that. IMO once folks start collecting items the map will automatically be a lot more empty.
  
  Presently IMO the weapons and the health "amount" should be OK. So it is basically a question of how much health/armor shards to "decorate" the map with and how much ammo.
  
  IOW I have no idea how to fix it. Explicit examples: "move this", "delete that" would help.
  
  Logos... I have seen a few maps use the logos, so as a test built and added them. Since they are outside the windows that should be OK. I'll probably delete the AE logo though.

Thanx for the feedback... with the other comments that should make changes for beta 2 interesting.

GODLIKE,

• Railgun & Quad ... RG in more spammable location
  Yo the present location is not optimal. I was thinking of moving the RG onto the pipes on the other arena, thus exposing it. Possibly the Quad would hang in the air in that arena as well. It might even be possible to reach the Quad from the pipes. Hmmm no idea if works, but might be interesting to try.
  
  Personally I like the Q4DM1 idea that you have at least 2 routes to reach the Quad.
  
  
  There are some great lines and crouch slides to be had on this map, though.. In fact, since the middle corridors are undesirable to be caught in for any reason, it's practically mandatory. Big fun.
  Glad you liked that ...

Two ideas I wanted to visualize, to see what you folks think:

• 
• Even though I liked the idea that at 1 you can actually use the JP in two directions, IMO it also adds extra stress to room 4 plus makes corridor 2 redundant in some respect.
  
  I am thinking of closing off 1 plus round off the walls to 2. This way when a player uses the JP coming from A2 he will need to take a longer path 2.
• Initially I placed the TP 3 facing the long corridor to allow players to send rockets all the way down the corridor. And that could be nice.
  
  But presently I am rethinking the position of the TP, changing the TP's line of sight more in the direction of the HB.
  
  (Not really sure this improves anything).

I am pretty sure I want to close off one side of the JP, to make the gameflow slightly less flexible. The TP change is just a thought.

What do you think?

AEon wrote:Pic3:
Odd ledge...
That is in theme with the idea that only rusted ledges will show rust tracks on the walls below.

Well, there is this perfectly straight between the two textures that I thought looked odd. Looks like someone stenciled rust on those ledges. Maybe use a decal on the ledges instead?

The teleporter wasn't much good for rockets anyway. They seem to hit the ramp. Besides, it was possible to shoot from the end of that long corridor to the TP in the outdoor atrium, thereby shooting yourself in the back if that ramp wasn't there to save your butt.