Quake3World

Hi

I can beat the hardcore mode bots in Quake 3.... but I can't win as much against the nightmare bots.

Any fighting tips or something?

practise more

for me nightmare bots are like i can win bots

get armor - newbies tend to ignore it, but every shot you survive means more time to kill before you have to regather weapons.

time armors (respawn 25s after you pick it up) and powerups (1 or 2min in ffa?) so you can get them before the bots do. you can get a lot of kills really fast with quad and LG or SSH.

make sure you have a good config. if you're mousewheeling through weapons still, you're not gonna get far.

menkent wrote: make sure you have a good config. if you're mousewheeling through weapons still, you're not gonna get far.

That's not the first time I've seen somebody say that. I've been mousewheelin' for years and dig it though. I suppose I'm just so used to it that I dont even have to think about how many clicks of the wheel I need to go through to get a certain weapon now.

Silicone_Milk wrote:

menkent wrote: make sure you have a good config. if you're mousewheeling through weapons still, you're not gonna get far.

That's not the first time I've seen somebody say that. I've been mousewheelin' for years and dig it though. I suppose I'm just so used to it that I dont even have to think about how many clicks of the wheel I need to go through to get a certain weapon now.

What Menkent mean is you should bind a different key for each weapon, that way you will get the best weapon at faster speed, insted of rolling back and forth to get the weapon that you want...
everybody that i know plays that way...

I know what he meant. I suppose I didn't make myself clear about what I was trying to say.

I dont bind my weapons to keys because I have the mousewheel clicks memorized so I can get a weapon just as fast with the wheel as if I hit a bound key.

But, as I said, that's just me. Everybody has their own style of play.

Record a demo of the way you play, we'll tell you on ways to improve.

To record, type: /g_synchronousclients 1 then type /record. When you finish a game type /stoprecord.

Upload the demo to a place like http://www.rapidshare.de

Played on a server with 4 nightmare bots and they arent so tough.

Silicone_Milk wrote:I have the mousewheel clicks memorized so I can get a weapon just as fast with the wheel as if I hit a bound key.

no you can't.

mousewheel nextweap/prevweap introduces a delay into weapon selection so that you can move through each weapon to the one you want before it begins switching.

Hence no matter how fast you get at doing it, it's still notably slower than having a direct key bound.

menkent wrote:

Silicone_Milk wrote:I have the mousewheel clicks memorized so I can get a weapon just as fast with the wheel as if I hit a bound key.

no you can't.

considering Im retarded with the keyboard yes, yes I can.
In fact its faster for me to just use the mousewheel.

hence, practice.
he asked how he could get better, not how he could resign himself to being not-quite-good.

You can't say that somebody who prefers a mousewheel over bound keys is not-quite-good. To judge a person's skill based on their preferences of control config is ignorant.

To me, you're saying "you're not good if you dont do it this specific way". In my opinion that's poor advice. Sure, your style may work great for you and others, but there are other ways of playing to keep in consideration. Some may be sub-par while others may be above par.

As I've stated before, everybody has their own way of playing.

still it is less efective...

ffs, next someone will start arguing that playing without mouselook is perfectly legit because there "are other ways of playing." sure there are. i'll play blindfolded, you play using only your left foot, someone else plays with his joystick, and we're all totally l337 because that's how we play.
if someone asks me how to get better, i'm going to point them toward maximum efficiency and not the quake4dummies version where they pick up a bunch of bad habits.

Foo wrote:mousewheel nextweap/prevweap introduces a delay into weapon selection so that you can move through each weapon to the one you want before it begins switching.

Hence no matter how fast you get at doing it, it's still notably slower than having a direct key bound.

Bah, its a waste of time...he doesnt want to change is bad habit to improve.
It remind me of when i use to play with ARROW insted of WASD, when i did the change i had hard time getting use to it, but i don't regret it.
Its always good to try new thing.

How long does it take usually to go toe and toe with nightmare bots? their aim is SICK! but they tend to miss alot too unless you're next to them but even then sometimes they miss. I can go toe to toe with them alittle...tried in my own server and i always am with the rest of the pack points wise, and on other servers but compared to real players they suck! my first time online in this game i musta had extreme luck because i sucked hardcore today unlike before.

well, the way to beat bots isn't really to out-aim them. iirc, a bot like xaero will shoot around 50% MG and easily that high with rail. you beat bots by being smarter and faster than they are - control armors, weapons, and powerups; strafe-jump to stay a step ahead of them; don't expose yourself to hitscan weapons.

that last point is important. if you're 1v1 with xaero on a space map (ie- dm17), don't let him see you right after he respawns. he'll destroy you with MG. hide for a couple seconds until he picks up a RL or SSG, then you can take him out or grab the armor/health you need while he spams away.

my right mouse button is the strafe button and becuase i play World of Warcraft, I tend to have a hard time with strafing. My question; Is it effective to use the mouse rightclick as strafe or do you have another preferance?

strafle isnt bind to any key....its a succession of different key that make you strafle, here:
Strafe Jumping

Strafing is a skill which enables player movement at a faster-than-running-speed pace. Strafe jumping is performed via a continuous jumping cycle while running forward and strafing in alternate directions (or the same direction if you want to curve your jump).

In order to attempt your first strafe jumping run, find a map with wide open flat spaces which will allow bunny-hopping while running long distances.

Process:
Run forward while continuing to hold down the run forward key, jumping each time you hit the ground again. Repeat until comfortable with this bunny-hop-running method. Now you’re ready to add strafing into the mix, pressing alternating strafe keys during this process each time you hit the ground just prior to the next jump. Strafing also works when traveling backwards. Good strafe jumping can take quite a lot of practice.

Last edited by riddla on 11-24-2005 07:08 PM; edited 1 time in total

Silicone_Milk wrote:I know what he meant. I suppose I didn't make myself clear about what I was trying to say.

no, you were clear. some people just take a while for things to "click"

There's a lot of good advice here on beating the nightmare bots. It's certainly worth a less experienced player taking the time to read through this thread and learning from it. As I'm typing this I might as well add my two pence worth ......

I hope the following tips help (they are in no particular order).

1) Each Bot has a preset set of preferences.

This is important and you need to understand this to be true and learn what each bot's programmed likes are (to a certain degree) if you are to win the map, especially on the 1v1 maps. Examples: (Crash on the intro level. Has a massive preference for the shotgun and the yellow armour, if you control these two items and can stop crash getting them the map should be yours for the taking. Q3tourney2 - Hunter: has a huge preference for the lightning gun. Simply deny her access to it and you'll win this one hands down).

2) Take the time to run through each map on your own with no bots and learn the map and item layout properly. Learn each items respawn times so you can better control the map. Ensure you take advantage of the in game timer. (Bring down the console and type \cg_drawtimer 1). Be aware that because of weapons short respawn times it's almost impossible to controls these on bigger maps so the armour, main healths and powerups are the items you should look to control).

3) Take the time to learn to use each powerup / holdable effectively. For example the medikit most people with 100 health and holding the medikit, see the medikit respawn and think "oh I can't deny others that cause I already have 100 health so I can't use the one I have..." ... WRONG!! The medikit restores to 125 health so use it and pick up the new one for when you get in a battle. And when you do have it don't forget in a battle to be patient and allow your health to run low before using it. (It's an experience thing but you'll find it useful to get that extra kill in).

4) Take the time to learn a maps secrets when it has them (Deva Station's [Q3DM10] hidden 50 health, the ceiling switch for the quad, Demon Keep's [Q3DM15] hidden BFG ammo). These little things can sway the game in your favour.

5) The structure of some maps allows for shortcuts to be taken to get to places without the need to rocket jump everywhere and thereby allowing you to maintain your health. It's important you take the time to learn how to utilise these parts of the map. (Examples: the ramparts on Q3DM13 by the upper yellow armour can be used in conjunction with well timed strafe jumps to get across to the large flat upper area allowing for a speedier route to the lightning gun.. On Q3DM12 the slopped ledges by the door on the rocket launcher ledge overlooking the quad can be used to access the two higher walkways on either side of the ledge).

6) Never rocket jump in a map unless you need to or you can recover the health and or armour after the jump. It's amazing how many new players rocket jump around because they've just learnt it or seen someone else do it without thinking about why on earth it is they are actually doing it in the first place.

7) Get yourself a configuration (frame-wise and key-wise) that you are comfortable with. Once this is sorted you won't spend time thinking about it during the game.

Hope that helps

Fora.

On the weapon binding issue. I've found over the years that no two people are alike. Each has their own preferences. People will always pick holes in your config but the point is they aren't you and you need to be comfortable with your bindings. However keep an open mind, sometimes a suggestion will work for you.

I have quite stuby little fingers and I'm not good at remembering to many keys, plus I don't like moving away from a movement key if I can help it. On top of this I simply couldn't get on with the mouse scroll but I liked the option of three buttons. Eventually I found a three button (no wheeled) mouse I liked and have stuck with it ever since. Here's my keys.

Movement:-

WASD (forward, strafe left, right, back)
X = display score board whilst held down.
C = Crouch
SPACEBAR = WALK
MOUSE1 (Left mouse button) = Fire
MOUSE3 (Middle mouse button) = Jump

Weapon Binds:-

The numeric keys above qwerty as norm.
Q = Switch between lightning gun and machine gun.
E&R = Switch between Shotgun and Plasma Gun.
MOUSE2 (Right mouse button) = Switch between Rail gun and Rocket laucher.

F = Use Item
Left Shift = Prev Weapon.

During the time I did have a mouse wheel (I had MWHEELUP and MWHEELDOWN also bound to jump in case I scrolled accidently).

I've used this layout (variations of it) to play Q1 / Q2 / Q3 / and the other FPS's I played over the years to pretty good effect.

Others have tried it and absolutely hated it. The point is it works for me and it's stuck with me a very long time. So have patience and find something that works for you.

Silcon_Milk if you really are happy with the mouse wheel then that's great man. Don't go changing cause someone said so, rather try a change if you feel it will improve your game and you feel comfortable with it.

More importantly we all shouldn't forget it's just a game and we are all here to enjoy it.

Fora.

Thats the wierdest set of binds ive ever seen. Granted, thats how youve been playing, and i respect that, but it seems wierd to me to have any other key besides SPACE as jump.

I have the following:

Q = Gauntlet
E = Shotgun
F = Rocket Launcher
R = Railgun
3 = Lightning Gun
4 = Grenade Launcher
V = Bio Force Gun
1 = Machine Gun
T = Plasma Gun

As for gameplay tips, i havent been playing for that long, and from what ive read, ive been through the same phase.

I could competently play Hardcore bots, but the Nightmare bots would own me. But besides more and more gameplay, there isnt much i can offer.

1) Always hunt Armour, its more valuable than people think
2) Time everything from weapon spawns to armour spawns
3) Know where spawn points are. If you can keep them covered with a rocket every time you frag someone, chances are youll maim someone seconds after they spawn
4) Learn to strafe jump