Quake3World

I assume no one minds me posting this here again ...



Download Link : http://www.simonoc.com/files/games/Flipper_v15.exe
Website Info : http://www.simonoc.com/pages/design/games/flipper.htm

I am planning to upgrade this game to a new format but I want to do one last check to see if anyone has any new feedback.

Stuff I am looking for on current feedback:
* Did you have any problems with the installer or access to the game?
* Do you like it or dislike the game? Anything in particular you like/dislike?
* Can you think of anyway the game can be improved?
* Was there anything that frustrated you while playing the game?
* What did you think of the presentation of the game?
* How difficult was the levels for you? easy/medium/difficult?
* Did you get stuck on any levels and give up?
* Do you find the interface confusing? Able to choose different levels?
* Did you try out the editor and create any puzzles yourself?

The top link is a new version which should hopefully work correctly with vista and win7. If anyone can spare some time to test this new version I would especially appreciate it.

Changes 1.5
* New exe which should work with vista/win7 installs (needs more testing)
* Added particle effects to all tile movements and special tiles
* Switched tiles from 3d objects to 2d sprite sheets (should be a speed increase)

Changes 1.3b

* Fixed a bug when cancelling the level screen
* Re-worked the highlight system, sometimes would leave some highlights active.
* Added more functionality to the help screens.
* You can view help from any level now, not just certain levels.
* Help button is yellow/flash first time a new feature is introduced.
* Can scroll back through all previous help screens
* Added some debug stuff to config file (performance checks)
* enabled 16bit graphic modes (640x480-1280x1024)

Changes 1.2b

* Different Interface (simple/advanced)
* Tile numbering
* New help system
* Alot of backend code fixes
* Some new effects added
* Most things can be changed via an options file (no gfx interface ingame yet, waiting on final feedback)
* Changed some tile gfx

EDIT: Updated with new version

I did play the old version but I'm still gonna try it.

Initializing chunk mappings...
Could not load this GL function: glGenTextures
Could not load this GL function: glBindTexture
Could not load this GL function: glTexImage2D
Could not load this GL function: glTexParameteri
Could not load this GL function: glTexParameteri
Could not load this GL function: glTexParameteri
Could not load this GL function: glTexParameteri
Could not load this GL function: glGenTextures
Could not load this GL function: glBindTexture
Could not load this GL function: glTexImage2D
Could not load this GL function: glTexParameteri
Could not load this GL function: glTexParameteri
Could not load this GL function: glTexParameteri
Could not load this GL function: glTexParameteri

From the log file. Don't know if it's important but wth.

Also, still can't use the arrow keys. Won't comment on the puzzles since I don't have much time. I like the new effects though. All you need is a catchy tune

This is the first version I tried.

I like it, I didn't need to read the help file to catch what to do which is great. I did look at the help and it's explained in a clear manner.

Some cool sounds and possibly a music background would be a nice addition.

Nice work!

I like the changes. I agree it needs a few sounds and some trippy music. Maybe a "The Makron will eat you!" message when you fail a level.

Survivor: Yeah that is something deep in the engine, I only have access to the top scripting layer so cannot fix that error. The engine is trying to check graphic setting before the canvas(screen) is setup. The whole game is mouse operated, never thought about cursor keys. I am looking forward to hearing from you on the interface and puzzles.

Evillair: thanks, Im glad you liked it. I watched so many people play the game for the first time and spent so long tweaking the interface. The primary goal was that someone could use the game without understanding a word of english. (sadly I still have english buttons but the basic mechanics of the game is graphically for instructions)

obsidian: Thanks, did you get far with the puzzles?

Has anyone completed all the levels?
Sims

Oh, btw... I let my 4 year old try it and his first reaction was to move with the arrow keys not the mouse.

He got confused when he got to the 'special' tiles and stopped.
He liked the first level though. It might be cool to have a few 'easy' levels at first before going into 'special tiles' etc.
Just a thought.

I haven't tried it yet but might if the file isnt too big. My wife gets into tile type games so she might have fun with this.
How big is the file?

roughrider wrote: How big is the file?

Flipper_v13b.exe = 2.4Mb

So, not played it that much but i got a few levels in.
A single step back button for when you make a mistake. Like a history of one where you go back to your previous position but can't go back any further.
This is a linear game with unchanging environment. Sadly this means that you're only there to finish it. And then it's done. To lengthen the lifetime.
1: Custom level creator. Which in my eyes can't be too hard if you create a gui or something for it.
2: Timer, on the lower levels it wouldn't mean a thing since they are so linear but on more complicated levels a time attack style of play between players might occur.
Gameplay expansions
Maybe involve a carriable item which you have to pick up and bring to a certain point.
Waypoints in the order 1,2,3,etc. which you have to follow.
Possibility of larger than current playing field where the screen might scroll with your 'pawn' at the center of the screen at all times.

Evillair: Have you tried the built-in editor? maybe you can start your own level pack? There is a blank template level pack included in the level directory or you can change the default one. The level packs are stored as text files and can be emailed or edited by hand.

How to enable the built-in editor:

The Config File is located in the flipper folder under the 'game/data' directory. There is also a shortcut in the flipper group folder under the windows start button as well. To enable the editor, set the simplemenu key to zero in the Config File. The latest version 1.3b has a proper installer which sets up a lot of useful icons under the windows start bar menu.

Editor instructions: http://www.simonoc.com/pages/design/gam ... editor.htm
Config File Details: http://www.simonoc.com/pages/design/gam ... config.htm
File load/save system: http://www.simonoc.com/pages/design/gam ... r_file.htm

roughrider: Look forward to any feedback, please let me know how your wife gets on.

Survivor: The first 3 levels are linear and very easy to get everyone use to the interface and the basic tile mechanics of the game. Once you reach level 4, the first special tile is introduced and then the puzzle game really starts to change direction. Most levels can be finished in several different ways and there is no single solution (except a couple of levels) If any levels are too easy then please use the skip button.

Full list of game features : http://www.simonoc.com/pages/design/gam ... torial.htm
Website also contains details on every level if you want check out at a glance what to expect later on in the game.

I recommend you check out the built-in editor (instructions above) and see what puzzles you can come up with. I know PJW came up some very cool puzzles and hopefully he will post about them at some point when he's got a free moment.

Sims
The screenshot at the top of the thread is from the built-in editor screen.

sock wrote:Survivor: The first 3 levels are linear and very easy to get everyone use to the interface and the basic tile mechanics of the game. Once you reach level 4, the first special tile is introduced and then the puzzle game really starts to change direction. Most levels can be finished in several different ways and there is no single solution (except a couple of levels) If any levels are too easy then please use the skip button.

What I meant was that once a level is solved people have no real use for returning to it. And people can't put out working levels at the rate people can solve them.

Since you already have the level editor, that only leaves my comment on time-attack mode still standing. Points are almost out of the question with a game like this but time attacks might become very interesting as you say that there is a multitude of ways to solve a level.

sock wrote: Full list of game features : http://www.simonoc.com/pages/design/gam ... torial.htm
Website also contains details on every level if you want check out at a glance what to expect later on in the game.

sock wrote: I recommend you check out the built-in editor (instructions above) and see what puzzles you can come up with. I know PJW came up some very cool puzzles and hopefully he will post about them at some point when he's got a free moment.

Ah, a bit hidden. Several thingies though.
[*]Multiple clicking is a bit of a bore. Maybe making the view of the playing field a bit smaller and putting a sidebar menu to the right would be more userfriendly.
[*]There is also a help button missing in the editormode.
[*]If you are going to add button support maybe also add in the numbers in the editor mode to quickly increase the countnumber of tiles.
[*]Increasing the playing field also allows for even more variation in level creation as well as a change in the possible use of special tiles. Instead of exploding a 3x3 a 5x5 might be done, or instead of turning 3 tiles, turning more or less.

Survivor: Yep, totally agree. Once a level is complete nobody will ever go back. Even when you complete a level, there is no completion screen congratulating people. I did design this game as something casual ... odd 10mins left at lunch, quickly do a level.

The hardest problem seems to be trying to get a happy middle ground for completing puzzles that are not too easy but not too hard. Some people I tested the game on got stuck on the first level and it took them ages to complete the first puzzle. Others zoomed right through to level 6 before getting stuck. I might do a hint box at the beginning of a couple of levels. Like "you can use the skip button if you want to move on to different levels" etc

I was thinking about doing a special mode where the least amount of moves to complete the puzzle wins (sort of like the advanced stuff for portal) While testing the levels I did find several shortcuts that made me smile.

I have started a page on my site with all the future idea/feedback so far.
http://www.simonoc.com/pages/design/gam ... future.htm

One other mode I was considering is the player starts out with the tiles only and has to layout the special tiles themselves to solve the puzzle. Im sure it would mean people getting very frustrated quickly because the amount of solutions would increase.

Yeah the editor is well hidden because I got feedback from people wanting simplier menu's, plus if someone really wants to explore the editor they can find it from the website. I think I have done too much on the website, far too much information. I really wanted people to check the website for updates and further information.

All passive help is removed from the editor mode, I assumed everyone using the editor would understand what to do with the special tiles. Help on how to use the editor is only on the website, its very short. I do like the shortcut keys to speed up the tile flipping in editor mode but it would need to know what tile to affect. All operations in the editor are mouse only.

A couple people early on asked for a larger grid but Im not convinced it would give more gameplay just take longer to complete puzzles. There is certainly a lot of possibility for special tiles with increased radius based on colour of the tile below etc. red=3x3 area, yellow=5x5 etc

Please let me know if you get further into the game, I would love to know if you can complete lvl 21 and some of the later levels. Ideally the levels should take 5-10mins to complete.

Thanks for the feedback
Sims

hmm. I wonder. Is it possible to use a trace-back approach to randomly generate solvable puzzles. Simply start at a random tile, have some ai increase tilecount instead of decrease as it goes about its way and set a certain number of steps while randomizing direction etc. It could even include simple specials like the jump or threefold increase/decrease although I doubt the exploders/vacumers would fit.

The game doesn't work for me.
Just an error dialogue pops up. :\

And exactly what error message are you getting? The idea behind beta testing is to describe exactly what the error is and how you got it, not just stating the fact that the error exists.

just a random thought, but it could be cool to have multiple puzzles (rooms, if you will) tied together with warp points or tunnels... like if you were playing on a cube and you could warp/tunnel from side to side...

far out, i know

and maybe even some power-ups that might help in the trickier puzzles... like a blaster that decrements or increments a square - the player picks which square

or it could even trigger the special on a tile

obsidian wrote:And exactly what error message are you getting? The idea behind beta testing is to describe exactly what the error is and how you got it, not just stating the fact that the error exists.

Never mind, v1.3b worked.

wattro: yep very cool idea on the multiple rooms, certainly not far out at all. I always wanted to have the puzzle in 3d and each grid is a side of a cube. Sadly the engine is 2d so all objects are the same depth (unless I manually scale things to give the illusion of depth) The multiple rooms idea would negate the need for a 3d puzzle object.

The game already has power-ups that make the grid more difficult, exploder/vacuum special tiles that dec/inc area's around them. Let me know if you get to the later puzzles.

a13n: cool, well let me know if you play the game and how far you got.

Thanks
Sims

Unlike the 1st version, this time I could get the rule and enjoyed the 1st stage.
Though I was bored soon, this game is handy in that it can be played with just one hand.
That's all I could say at the moment.
Tell me if I'm missing supposed fun factor.

a13n: Yep everyone plays games at different rates, use the skip button if the initial puzzles are too easy.

It is a catch-22, if you don't include an easy start to the game, people find the game too hard. If you create too much of an introduction the game becomes boring.

Sims

sock: I played "green tea" and it was too overwhelming to try again.

*skips to green tea

Green Tea is the bane of my life

I think if anything, the average user would like it if you kept up the 'in betweener' levels into the middle phase of the game and beyond - the ones that don't so much tax the player's brain, as reinforce whatever lesson they learned about tile and power-up interaction on the previous puzzle. At the moment it feels like every level requires some huge leap of logic that involves something not quite like what was before it. It's satisfying if you get through a bunch of puzzles quickly.

I think if you want to keep it for casual play you should avoid going to 3D or multi-room puzzles unless you're absolutely certain you can present it in a way that anyone could understand. No-one here would have trouble with these concepts, but your average joe non-gamer wouldn't stand a chance with 'em.

Overall though I think it's pretty much bang on. We could sit here and suggest new special tile types all day, but it would just be unwanted bloat. The mechanics of a puzzle game are best kept to a managable level, the balance between simplicity and complexity is pretty fine, and this is fine as is.