Quake3World

obsidian wrote:if you're extracting them from WoW and somehow importing them into Q3, you're violating copyright restrictions and it is illegal.

Why are you always on people's case about this? It's fucking quake 3... Don't be such a stickler.

Give it a rest, already...

I wonder how many posts (of your 10,000 posts) are posts about copyright infringement.

You wont understand until someone does it with your work.
Protected materials should not be used and Obsidian is only doing Martinus a favor when he is pointing it out because it is in fact a) illegal to take texturs and props from a commercial game and b) a waste of time to work on something that will never see the light of the day.

Hey guys, look what I made (ignore the watermark, I dunno how that got there):

deqer wrote:

obsidian wrote:if you're extracting them from WoW and somehow importing them into Q3, you're violating copyright restrictions and it is illegal.

Why are you always on people's case about this? It's fucking quake 3... Don't be such a stickler.

Give it a rest, already...

I wonder how many posts (of your 10,000 posts) are posts about copyright infringement.

Because it's a damn important principle and protection for all artists alike. Just because you don't care about laws and refuse to work harmoniously with a community much larger than just yourself doesn't mean it's suddenly ok to rip off the work of other people.

Silicone_Milk wrote:

deqer wrote:Why are you always on people's case about this? It's fucking quake 3... Don't be such a stickler.

Give it a rest, already...

I wonder how many posts (of your 10,000 posts) are posts about copyright infringement.

Because it's a damn important principle and protection for all artists alike.

This ^

Just because "it's fucking Quake 3..." doesn't change anything. Taking/using assets from any game and using it in another has been banned by every game's EULA in the last...well...a long time.

Nice screenies btw.

I wouldn't have posted that image, Obsidian. Just shows how immaturely you can solve problems of this extent.

Pretty much what City had stated, you don't realize the severity of the issue until you have experienced it yourself. I bet you that you wouldn't be in a good mood if someone copied your work. If you wouldn't care if someone copied your work, then so be it, that is your decision.

The breach of copyright infringement can be taken into legal matters such as law cases. I wouldn't want to see yourself at the end of that path.

deqer wrote:Why are you always on people's case about this? It's fucking quake 3... Don't be such a stickler.

Give it a rest, already...

I wonder how many posts (of your 10,000 posts) are posts about copyright infringement.

PaN61 wrote:I wouldn't have posted that image, Obsidian.

You wouldn't have but you should have.
Just a very direct and effective way to personally confront someone justifying copyright infringement.

deqer wrote:It's fucking quake 3... Don't be such a stickler.

It's WoW, actually. A game still very actively played.
And even if it wasn't, it's not up to you to decide when it's ok to rip things off and reuse, based on your arbitrary moral compass.

It's important to keep repeating because it's a subject not a whole lot of people have even so much as the faintest clue about. It's responses like "it's just quake 3, who cares" that just show the level of ignorance on the subject. Similar with CZghost literally saying that he pirated (or, as the cool kids call it: Warezed) Team Arena, justifying it by saying it was an old game anyway.

suggestion: lrn2blender and make the models yourself. you'll actually acquire some new skills as well as creating something 100% legit

women may also want to suck your erect penis out of sheer admiration (not guaranteed)

seremtan wrote:suggestion: lrn2blender and make the models yourself. you'll actually acquire some new skills as well as creating something 100% legit

women may also want to suck your erect penis out of sheer admiration (not guaranteed)

I wouldn't had said it any better.

Fair enough.

I understand it's wrong, and yes I would be frustrated if someone did it with my work. I guess I may not mind if 1) they don't make money from it, and 2) they credited me in their product.

But, on the other hand, I would mind it if my work was used in a poorly manner. I can see how that would also be a reason for copyright infringement being "just wrong" because of mis-use/mis-presentation of the assets being stolen. I can see how the original artist would be like "wtf, such an awful use of my assets in his product. my assets were not made for that shit."

I should probably tell you all that I used the music from White Zombie, and Total Recall soundtrack for my Entity Plus map (both when use the elevator from map1 to map2, and climbing the ladder up to the vents/area). I did not want to spend the time to become a musician and create that exact music myself, nor want to spend money on a map that would be free. But I understand it's wrong.

I guess I was just mad that Obsidian didn't give a lot of props to the guy for at least trying and at least putting in an effort. I felt that Obsidian should first give props and compliment the work done so far, and "then" lecture him about copyright infringement at the end of your post. I would also like to see the lecture text be smaller/shorter than the props text.

Just my 2cents.

deqer wrote:Fair enough.

I understand it's wrong, and yes I would be frustrated if someone did it with my work. I guess I may not mind if 1) they don't make money from it, and 2) they credited me in their product.

I feel much the same about my (non-commercial) projects. If someone took something I made and did something cool with it, I'd probably be flattered rather than angered. It depends on what was used to do what in what manner, though. And getting the credit for my work is important too.

Before not too long, I usually didn't credit people I used assets from either (I did make sure they were released under a proper license though), but nowadays I try to be more explicit about crediting people for their work as well. I tend to include a list of credits in a readme.txt or a credits.txt with stuff I release that contains media I've taken (licensed) from others. Such credits would contain the name of the author and, if possible, references to the specific assets. I also try to include an URL to where I got the original asset from and a mention of the license I licensed it under. This is usually a CC license. Most commonly are variants of the the CC-BY license which require attribution in this way.

I think it's important to do so, because if someone releases an asset under a CC-BY license and sees his work being used and properly attributed in another (high quality) project, then I believe that person might be encouraged to release more assets in the same manner, which can only benefit others, if not myself.

deqer wrote: But, on the other hand, I would mind it if my work was used in a poorly manner. I can see how that would also be a reason for copyright infringement being "just wrong" because of mis-use/mis-presentation of the assets being stolen. I can see how the original artist would be like "wtf, such an awful use of my assets in his product. my assets were not made for that shit."

Yeah this is a very important aspect of copyright infringement that a lot of people simply don't think about. I was pleasantly surprised to see you bring it up. Besides all the legal hubbub, a commercial company is simply afraid that their product is being misrepresented by someone. And that's not just qualitywise, but also contextually. I don't think the creators of My Little Pony are happy if someone used My Little Pony assets in a violent, bloodsoaked piece of media.

deqer wrote:I did not want to spend the time to become a musician and create that exact music myself, nor want to spend money on a map that would be free.

Something like that is understandable and probably not that big a deal, but do realize that it does come with legal implications. You did something that, by law, is defined as something illegal. Does this also mean that in practice, you'll be punished for it? Probably not. Sometimes people judge the legality of something by how big the practical implication is, rather than the legal implication of it.

You might want to know that there's actually quite a broad selection of music available for free, released under CC licenses. In my Testing Procedures map I've used a CC-BY licensed song as well, as well as taking CC-BY licensed sound effects to create the ambient music that starts playing after the trash compactor sequence. All I can say is search the Internet and be creative and it'll be much more rewarding in the end, I'm sure.

deqer wrote: I guess I was just mad that Obsidian didn't give a lot of props to the guy for at least trying and at least putting in an effort. I felt that Obsidian should first give props and compliment the work done so far, and "then" lecture him about copyright infringement at the end of your post. I would also like to see the lecture text be smaller/shorter than the props text.

Just my 2cents.

I guess obsidian is more a "criticism is more useful than credits" type of person. (Constructive) criticism will help you become better at something, while getting props for something (flawed) won't get you anywhere other than feeling good about yourself. And he's sort of right there from a technical point of view. But I can understand where you're coming from as well. Everyone needs a bit of credit and a pat on the back once in a while. It helps most of us to keep going. Slavishly working on something for weeks and then getting nothing but criticism and complaints isn't always a big motivator. The trick is to take the criticism and improve things and see how you can deliver something better in the end. And that transformation (into something better) is going to get you a lot more credit I guess, even from obsidian

Fun fact: Back in the Q3Test days, I made a Quake II replica of The Longest Yard (q3dm17) together with my brother (r3t).

We built the geometry from scratch and it took a whole night to compile, but it played relatively well. We made one mistake though: we took Q3's textures and converted them to Quake II's texture format and used them in the map. We put the map up at our website but when we learned about that actually being illegal, we took the map down.

A few years later I decided to retexture the map with stock Quake 2 textures but never got to finishing that. A shame really, because it was a pretty cool map and I think we lost the original map file.

Maybe a not-so-fun fact after all

deqer wrote:I guess I was just mad that Obsidian didn't give a lot of props to the guy for at least trying and at least putting in an effort.

I agree with your point on constructive criticism, but I think you were being overly sensitive about the issue and omitted the part where I said, "If you're making them from scratch, good job. But as a warning,...." It was more of a legitimate question on how he was building his map assets rather than an accusation or lecture.

Anyway, it seems as if we're all agreed on this topic, so lets move on...

Seems relevant in this context:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013- ... ng-his-map

I would say also something:

Who cares about copyright laws?

That's phrase I see and hear almost every time. Yes, you can download commercial software for free, you can crack it, but you can't release it yourself illegally (without permissions of creator, which is something that's for really large fee from commercial companies). Not every site (like this one) will tolerate warez and such things breaking laws almost every country in the world. I have forums hosted on czech free webhosting, where it's strictly forbidden warez, porn and such things breaking CZ laws. I wouldn't experience a ten years prison just for breaking copyright and other laws of my country (few people wanted to re-dubb The Lord Of Rings as a parody, they released first finished episode and state has banned them for around ten years due to copyright strikes; people were happy to see something "original", but after experiencing a prison, they never did such things). phpBB software has already warn subject for warez as it's forbidden almost everywhere. Porn warning is still missing, but creators would add it in basic installation in future... Site admins have permissions to manage warning subjects, so it's relatively easy to add porn to the list...

I have experienced a warn about warez and porn here over q3w, I must say it's not much okay to break such laws as you can get yourself in really large troubles.

In other words, Obs has did right when asked him for copyrights. I wouldn't wish everyone to experience a prison...

CZghost wrote:Yes, you can download commercial software for free, you can crack it, but you can't release it yourself illegally (without permissions of creator, which is something that's for really large fee from commercial companies).

Does "can" mean "allowed to" here? Cause you are not...

Not every site (like this one) will tolerate warez and such things breaking laws almost every country in the world.

Boy am I glad I don't steal materials from commercial games!