Quake3World

... is happening right now

situation is "fucked up", says top swedish buckeroo

so some civilians spotted what they think was a sub, but the military cant find it and have no idea where to look. Meanwhile the sub probably finished whatever it was doing and is long gone by now.

Memphis wrote:register to continue.

nope

If you refresh the page it seems to let you view it again for a while.

How hard can it be to find a sub?

How hard can it be to find a missing plane?

Did they try behind the fridge ?

Reminds me of an old elephant joke.

"How can you tell if an elephant has been in your fridge?"

[spoiler]Look for footprints in the butter [/spoiler]

OT: It is probably a whale

Whiskey 7 wrote:How hard can it be to find a missing plane?

Presumably the sub will be moving, or emitting some form of noise into the sea .

Memphis wrote:register to continue. pass go and fuck yourself in jail.

seremtan wrote:

Memphis wrote:register to continue.

nope

PhoeniX wrote:How hard can it be to find a sub?

Aren't those things supposed to be stealthy?

Russians pointed their fingers at the Dutch at first by the way. First they imprison innocent Dutch people, then they beat up a Dutch ambassador, then they help Pro-Russian activists shoot down a plane with mainly Dutch people on board and now they blame us for invading Swedish waters. Stoopid Russians.

Good timing for the yanks to bully the Swedes into joining the North Atlantic Terrorist Organization.

Eraser wrote:Russians pointed their fingers at the Dutch at first by the way. First they imprison innocent Dutch people, then they beat up a Dutch ambassador, then they help Pro-Russian activists shoot down a plane with mainly Dutch people on board and now they blame us for invading Swedish waters. Stoopid Russians.

Funny how literally a minute after the first report of the plane going down, the White House already has a press release ready to go blaming Russia. Seems like morons still ignore the part where it would make zero strategic or political sense for Russia to down a civilian plane for no reason whereas the Ukrainians would have everything to gain from doing it and getting the world to join in on the blame game.

On the other hand, yanks have had a lot of practice taking down civilian planes in other countries so maybe they know what signs to look for.

Captain Mazda wrote:Funny how literally a minute after the first report of the plane going down, the White House already has a press release ready to go blaming Russia. Seems like morons still ignore the part where it would make zero strategic or political sense for Russia to down a civilian plane for no reason whereas the Ukrainians would have everything to gain from doing it and getting the world to join in on the blame game.

Your tin foil hat still sitting straight?

Captain Mazda wrote:

Eraser wrote:Russians pointed their fingers at the Dutch at first by the way. First they imprison innocent Dutch people, then they beat up a Dutch ambassador, then they help Pro-Russian activists shoot down a plane with mainly Dutch people on board and now they blame us for invading Swedish waters. Stoopid Russians.

Funny how literally a minute after the first report of the plane going down, the White House already has a press release ready to go blaming Russia. Seems like morons still ignore the part where it would make zero strategic or political sense for Russia to down a civilian plane for no reason whereas the Ukrainians would have everything to gain from doing it and getting the world to join in on the blame game.

On the other hand, yanks have had a lot of practice taking down civilian planes in other countries so maybe they know what signs to look for.

There's a number of reasons why Russia is avoiding blame, like giving high grade weapons to monkeys. The initial reports weren't entirely sure either, only that BUKs were observed in the area of the downing, with other reports stating that other planes were downed in the surrounding regions days before.

Russia also has previous for downing civilian airliners. Atleast 1 of them being downed after visual confirmation. Ukraine has n all, Siberia airlines one i believe. This won't be the 1st time Russia has tried shifting blame either, they even tried that's hit with the Kursk disaster.

Run forest run

Eraser wrote:

Captain Mazda wrote:Funny how literally a minute after the first report of the plane going down, the White House already has a press release ready to go blaming Russia. Seems like morons still ignore the part where it would make zero strategic or political sense for Russia to down a civilian plane for no reason whereas the Ukrainians would have everything to gain from doing it and getting the world to join in on the blame game.

Your tin foil hat still sitting straight?

About as straight as the huge turd Tony Blair took on your head.

losCHUNK wrote:There's a number of reasons why Russia is avoiding blame, like giving high grade weapons to monkeys. The initial reports weren't entirely sure either, only that BUKs were observed in the area of the downing, with other reports stating that other planes were downed in the surrounding regions days before.

Russia also has previous for downing civilian airliners. Atleast 1 of them being downed after visual confirmation. Ukraine has n all, Siberia airlines one i believe. This won't be the 1st time Russia has tried shifting blame either, they even tried that's hit with the Kursk disaster.

Run forest run

A Thursday article in the New Straits Times, Malaysia’s flagship English-language newspaper, charged the US- and European-backed Ukrainian regime in Kiev with shooting down Malaysian Airlines flight MH 17 in east Ukraine last month. Given the tightly controlled character of the Malaysian media, it appears that the accusation that Kiev shot down MH17 has the imprimatur of the Malaysian state.

The US and European media have buried this remarkable report, which refutes the wave of allegations planted by the CIA in international media claiming that Russian president Vladimir Putin was responsible for the destruction of MH17, without presenting any evidence to back up this charge.

Another source the paper cited was an article, “Flight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario Shifts,” by former Associated Press reporter Robert Parry, who now writes for the ConsortiumNews.com web site. Given the lack of any evidence supporting US charges that pro-Russian forces shot MH17 down with a Buk anti-aircraft missile, Parry said, “some US intelligence analysts have concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault, and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame, according to a source briefed on these findings.”

Parry indicated that sections of the US intelligence apparatus have concluded that US secretary of state John Kerry’s claims that pro-Russian forces shot down the plane are lies.

“Only three days after the crash, Secretary of State Kerry did the rounds of the Sunday talk shows making what he deemed an ‘extraordinary circumstantial’ case supposedly proving that the rebels carried out the shoot-down with missiles provided by Russia. He acknowledged that the US government was ‘not drawing the final conclusion here, but there is a lot that points at the need for Russia to be responsible,’ ” Parry wrote. “By then, I was already being told that the US intelligence community lacked any satellite imagery supporting Kerry’s allegations, and that the only Buk missile system in that part of Ukraine appeared to be under the control of the Ukrainian military.”

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/08 ... a-a09.html

You have no problems accepting whatever the British and US governments tell you. They've never been caught lying, assassinating democratically-elected foreign leaders, invading sovereign nations under false pretenses, or waging proxy wars for themselves and their Saudi masters.

Go buy another Etihad kit, arab

A quick google search tells me that's in main stream media, guardian atleast. I got as far as reading about the su-25 shooting the plane down which has neither the ceiling, speed or capability of bringing down mh17. if it wasnt quick then this would be seen on flight data recorders that the Russians had access too n all, according to that article multiple shots and cannon fire brought the plane down. This story comes from the Russians diverting blame and one investigator on a large team basing his opinion on shrapnel damage.

Like i said its not the 1st time Russians have tried shifting blame, Korean airlines flight was apparently a spy plane and the Kursk was hit by an American torpedo from whatever yank sub was in the region at the time.

*sigh*

While i agree that the blame on Russia was instantanious and therefore suspicious, i think blaming the Ukrainians for some high powered false flag black op is even more far fetched. Jesus, think of the risks, if the world would have found out people would have been like 'well, fuck those guys then' and they were effectively losing the war at that point. If it were immediately clear the Ukranians did it on purpose the Russians could have rolled columns of tanks into the Ukraine for a permanent occupation and noone would have given a singular shit about it.

Look, it just doesn't make political sense for any of the fighting parties to down a loaded passenger jet on purpose, this simply has accident written all over it. Keeping an open mind is a good thing, but going into conspiracy theories that defy common sense is nonsensical and unproductive.

PS one big technical issue i personally see with the Ukrainian fighter jet theory is the damage shown to the plane on all the pictures i saw - it looks like someone fired a giant shotgun at it. I'm no expert by any means, but i'd wager cannonfire from a jet doesn't leave a shitload of little holes - but these big anti aircraft missiles do. No telling who fired it though & i'd be surprised if we ever find out. Warzones are chaotic that way.

SU25 uses a 30mm gun apparently which leave bullet holes similiar to this (shot from a F16 20mm cannon) -

[lvlshot]http://gruntdoc.com/files/suburban-400x300.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]https://www.metabunk.org/data/MetaMirrorCache/dcd670269eec78387256c132c0920000.jpg[/lvlshot]

Comprared to -

[lvlshot]http://theother14.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/531864755_96785675.jpg[/lvlshot]

Which looks like this that was hit by a BUK

[lvlshot]http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/media/blogs/blog/44/maylasiasn1.jpg[/lvlshot]

The su25 is a ground attack plane n all, think of an A10 tank buster, it can be equipped with air to air missiles for defensive purposes but the missiles they attach have struck civilian airliners in the past and because they are so shite none were downed.

Which is besides the point anyway, MH17 was flying at 30k+ and the su25 can only manage around 20k > unloaded / un armed <, along with the max speed being approximate to MH17s cruising speed whilst also being unloaded / un armed (500knts VS 490 knts)

Also - The Russian radar data that they use to accuse the Ukranians of having an su25 in the area at the time of the downing showed that the SU25 only appeared AFTER MH17 was struck, which is more likely to be parts of the plane breaking up. The footage should have shown air speed from the radar data n all, which the 'su25' didn't show - meaning it wasn't moving laterally. The transponder is used to track altitude so the abscence of that isn't unusual but the data should still have shown flight speed as this is monitored by RADAR, as it did for MH17 even after transponder loss - which is when the RADAR data lost altitude readings for MH17. This information is released by the Russians and can't be interperated in any other way.

The su27 is the fighter plane, which the Ukranian military has and would have used. The report still isn't finalised either and all that's being said is that it was likely the Russians due to the plane being shot down over a rebel controlled sector, the intercepted transmissions between the rebels, social media from the Russian general in that area at the time of the downing, eye witness reports, photographic evidence of the BUKs, RADAR data etc. The investigation is also following procedure by not releasing much information, what's currently in the public domain is through media reporting. Russia on the other hand are very vocal about the entire situation.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

So many dishes, so little time...

Ryoki wrote:Jesus, think of the risks, if the world would have found out people would have been like 'well, fuck those guys then' and they were effectively losing the war at that point. If it were immediately clear the Ukranians did it on purpose the Russians could have rolled columns of tanks into the Ukraine for a permanent occupation and noone would have given a singular shit about it.

And how exactly do you think Ukraine shooting down a Malaysian plane in Ukraine give the Russians the right to "roll columns of tanks into Ukraine for a permanent occupation" without any resistance from the EU or NATO? The plane was filled with Dutch citizens, not Russians. Are you being naive or daft?

He's saying Ukraine would have lost the support of the EU, Dutch citizens being part of the EU, which I think you realise cos you pointed out that they weren't Russian. Silly sod.

Initial reports from Russia (because it was only the yanks that were quick on the trigger ) were that Ukraine thought Putin was on board so shot it down. A good prelude to war.

The thought of the EU being on Russia's side is just laughable, even for a ridiculous fantasy war scenario. Russia also doesn't need an excuse to roll into Ukraine, considering how much the EU is suffering financially from the very same sanctions they were ordered to place on the Kremlin. They own the fucking continent.

Who said they would be on Russias side ?, and Russia is hardly having an easy ride, their largest oil producer is asking for billions in bail out due to european markets closing their doors to them. It's not a huge impact on either market on the whole though.

Atleast with Crimea the Russians would have had a popular vote, opressing the entire region would surely lose them any support when concerning international politics (not just European). If Ukraine had been seen downing MH17 intentionally, then potentially the rest of the world would see that government as an equally oppresive regime and offer little to no support for their government nor would the EU want to be seen supporting it. It would be a PR disaster.