Quake3World

Let's assume for a second that the universe will eventualy collapse on itself and then begin again. I forget the term for it but here's my thought.

What if when the universe expands again it's identical to this universe again? Meaning we would relive our lives here on earth at this moment in the universe eternaly, doomed to repeat the same life over and over again. Perhaps explaining deja vu.

Anyway that's not my point, my thought is wouldn't it be neat if we could leave ourselves a message? I've thought about this for awhile but I can't for the life of me figure out where I would leave such a message that could survive the big bang other than outside our known universe. Like a signal of some sort designed to come back to this point in the next universe at this point in time for me to receive it at whatever point in time I chose.

If an intelligent being could create such an advanced device that being would be like a god.

if you assume full determinism ( = the same thing happens in every cycle ) it is not possible to send a message... unless you allready recieved one yourself.

Yes, that's right. If I thought of it this time around then obviously I've thougth about it each time, but this means that my thinking about a deterministic universe can only be altered by an outside force. So if I did, I could easily keep count of how many times I have gone through with this message effectively creating a solid timeline through a deterministic universe.

It also means no universe is truly deterministic if there's a loophole, just that the same things are doomed to repeat themselves, but they are free will nonetheless.

if the universe's next iteration was exactly the same as this one, then we'd end up in the same places having the same stupid stoned conversations

if we 'left a message', that would interfere with the identical nature of our upbringing, which means we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation.

even if we left a beacon to transmit something to be picked up by SETI, the reaction from SETI would create a chain of events that would eventually have drastic changes on the world (chaos theory)

edit: oh, and if it is possible that a beacon could be left, there is an infinite possibility that has already been done. therefore, it's impossbile. (infinite possibility => we've gone through an infinite number of iterations so far in the past where no beacon has been left, so the chances of it are infintessimally(sp?) small)

Kracus wrote:Let's assume for a second that the universe will eventualy collapse on itself and then begin again. I forget the term for it but here's my thought.

What if when the universe expands again it's identical to this universe again? Meaning we would relive our lives here on earth at this moment in the universe eternaly, doomed to repeat the same life over and over again. Perhaps explaining deja vu.

Anyway that's not my point, my thought is wouldn't it be neat if we could leave ourselves a message? I've thought about this for awhile but I can't for the life of me figure out where I would leave such a message that could survive the big bang other than outside our known universe. Like a signal of some sort designed to come back to this point in the next universe at this point in time for me to receive it at whatever point in time I chose.

If an intelligent being could create such an advanced device that being would be like a god.

Deja Vu is actually a psychological/mental phenomenon that has been researched and explained. Your brain doesn't really "remember" the event, it is tricked into thinking so.

If the UNIVERSE contracts and expands in series of periods lasting an eternity, how exactly do you propose on creating a device that'll survive it?

Surely to create something it needs to exist in our universe. Which will ironically cease to exist and be born again. LOGIC!

Deterministic as a property means there is 1 outcome for each choice. It has nothing to do with "the same thing happens in every cycle".

A different choice is a different cycle.

Deja Vu has already been explained in The Matrix homos

glossy wrote:if the universe's next iteration was exactly the same as this one, then we'd end up in the same places having the same stupid stoned conversations

if we 'left a message', that would interfere with the identical nature of our upbringing, which means we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation.

even if we left a beacon to transmit something to be picked up by SETI, the reaction from SETI would create a chain of events that would eventually have drastic changes on the world (chaos theory)

Yeah but you're thinking on a linear type of way, each message would change, but it would also mean if someone could do this they would have unlimited knowledge. So basicly... whoever can create a machine that will send a message into outer space would instantly receive anything and everything that the sender could ever send on information about the universe.... So that person or those people would have to be immortal.

duffman91 wrote:

Kracus wrote:Let's assume for a second that the universe will eventualy collapse on itself and then begin again. I forget the term for it but here's my thought.

What if when the universe expands again it's identical to this universe again? Meaning we would relive our lives here on earth at this moment in the universe eternaly, doomed to repeat the same life over and over again. Perhaps explaining deja vu.

Anyway that's not my point, my thought is wouldn't it be neat if we could leave ourselves a message? I've thought about this for awhile but I can't for the life of me figure out where I would leave such a message that could survive the big bang other than outside our known universe. Like a signal of some sort designed to come back to this point in the next universe at this point in time for me to receive it at whatever point in time I chose.

If an intelligent being could create such an advanced device that being would be like a god.

Deja Vu is actually a psychological/mental phenomenon that has been researched and explained. Your brain doesn't really "remember" the event, it is tricked into thinking so.

If the UNIVERSE contracts and expands in series of periods lasting an eternity, how exactly do you propose on creating a device that'll survive it?

Surely to create something it needs to exist in our universe. Which will ironically cease to exist and be born again. LOGIC!

No I'm thinking like a signal that could exit our universe and reenter at the proper time to be intercepted here on earth during this point in time in our current universe.

I think you're missunderstanding Kracus. There is no "outside our universe".

Now, if there was, it wouldn't matter if we sent the message to our future self. In reality, you in the next universe has nothing to do with you in the previous. You would be two identical entities, but the message would never truly be from you(in the sense of : holy shit im talking to myself).

glossy wrote:if the universe's next iteration was exactly the same as this one, then we'd end up in the same places having the same stupid stoned conversations

if we 'left a message', that would interfere with the identical nature of our upbringing, which means we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation.

even if we left a beacon to transmit something to be picked up by SETI, the reaction from SETI would create a chain of events that would eventually have drastic changes on the world (chaos theory)

edit: oh, and if it is possible that a beacon could be left, there is an infinite possibility that has already been done. therefore, it's impossbile. (infinite possibility => we've gone through an infinite number of iterations so far in the past where no beacon has been left, so the chances of it are infintessimally(sp?) small)

Not really, it might not have happened yet. perhaps the message only comes later, maybe 5 years maybe 500 billion who knows? But when it does, the one the receives the information would have knowledge that would be eons before our own years.

glossy wrote:if the universe's next iteration was exactly the same as this one, then we'd end up in the same places having the same stupid stoned conversations

if we 'left a message', that would interfere with the identical nature of our upbringing, which means we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation.

even if we left a beacon to transmit something to be picked up by SETI, the reaction from SETI would create a chain of events that would eventually have drastic changes on the world (chaos theory)

edit: oh, and if it is possible that a beacon could be left, there is an infinite possibility that has already been done. therefore, it's impossbile. (infinite possibility => we've gone through an infinite number of iterations so far in the past where no beacon has been left, so the chances of it are infintessimally(sp?) small)

Not really, it might not have happened yet. perhaps the message only comes later, maybe 5 years maybe 500 billion who knows? But when it does, the one the receives the information would have knowledge that would be eons before our own years.

duffman91 wrote:I think you're missunderstanding Kracus. There is no "outside our universe".

Now, if there was, it wouldn't matter if we sent the message to our future self. In reality, you in the next universe has nothing to do with you in the previous. You would be two identical entities, but the message would never truly be from you(in the sense of : holy shit im talking to myself).

Well if the universe is going to be identical next go around it theoreticaly could be sent to the proper coordinates in the universe at the right time.

What? How does that relate to what I said?

i really need a few joints before i can think as irrationally as you, kracus. sorry

I'm getting deja vu reading this.

tnf wrote:I'm getting deja vu reading this.

i knew it, you were right all along kracus!!!!

lol

Well it's an interesting thought, because it does awnser a few questions. Because if it's possible then it means someone in this universe has this knowledge or will have in the future and that person will be in a position of insane power. If not then it means nothing can be sent outside our own universe which in itself is information worth having.

What is the point to these random thoughts? Yes Kracus, it would be kind of neat to do X, but most of your random thoughts are useless discussion topics because they are so highly hypothetical. "It's crazy, man, there could be like this whole universe hiding under my fingernail." What's worse it that you try to tie it in with your limited knowledge of physics and the universe... so all your attempts to defend your ideas fall flat on your face and you look like a fool. Could you at least do some research on the subject beforehand so that you can give a minimal defense of whatever idea it is that you are positing?

Well consider them thought exercises.

However, most of the ones posted have been discussed in great detail in philosophy courses and books.

I think that a more exciting "random thought" would be:

If we create seemingly perfect A.I. What should we do as a people if the computer (completelly on its own) asks to be baptized?

glossy wrote:i really need a few joints before i can think as irrationally as you, kracus. sorry

dunno, i've been smoking since i got up this morning and it still sounds like he's talking complete bollocks.

duffman91 wrote:If we create seemingly perfect A.I. What should we do as a people if the computer (completelly on its own) asks to be baptized?

it's a shame that something with actual credible merit for discussion was posted in a kracus thread

I'm plowing through a detailed examination of the work of Alain Aspect in the 80s that proved the ideas of Einstein, Rosen, and Podolsky wrong and paved the way for the notion of quantum entaglement. So, by comparision, Kracus's random thought seems...well...nevermind.