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Topic Starter Topic: Playing q3 with grayscaled screen : its effect
a12n
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PostPosted: 09-26-2009 08:24 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Unlike human beings, some natural born hunters such as cats see the world as grayscale.

So I tried playing quake live that way, and saw how it affected FFA experience.

In my case it increased concentration, resulting in more stabilized(less upset) game play.

Loss of color information did more good than harm.



Let me know your opinion or experience.
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DTS
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PostPosted: 09-27-2009 01:04 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


How did you make it greyscale?
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a12n
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PostPosted: 09-27-2009 01:14 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


through official ati(amd) radeon display driver config menu
There are other options such as edged lines as seen in photoshop cheap filters.

I read Macintosh could do this(grayscale) by default.
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DTS
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PostPosted: 09-27-2009 01:31 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Well I have an Nvidia card and I can't find that option for it anywhere. It's an old card, though.

Anyway, for Q3, people tend to try and make their opponent more visible, which a distinctive colour helps with. So colour is helpful for that. Everything else might benefit from being greyscale, though.

I remember there was a Q3 map where all the textures were greyscale and it included some greyscale character skins for the bots that it had set for it. It was pretty good. No-one seems to know about it though. Maybe I should ask in LEM. I think I only asked in a mapping IRC channel before.

I think it used a little colour for the "electric effect" on some things, but that effect was primarily white.

I remember it had a mirror that you walked through and it was a teleporter, and it had a moving platform floating in the air elsewhere in the level.

Edit:
LEM topic: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=41615
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a11n
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PostPosted: 09-28-2009 12:43 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hey, DTS, thanks for your time to introduce a sample map.

Is this your map? :rolleyes:
Because you describe its contents very well, oddly enough, hehehe.

Maybe I've already collected it when it was released in 2003, so I'll search my hard drive later.
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a11n
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PostPosted: 09-28-2009 12:48 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


By the way I've hit a new idea on q3 engine mod.

It will be named 8bitq3 as such and everything is rendered as grayscale, thus obtaining a performance boost for competitive game play.
Because unlike 16bit or 32bit, it consumes less bandwidth for pixel information transfer.
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DTS
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PostPosted: 09-28-2009 01:25 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I don't know much about graphics cards hardware but I think they are optimised for 16 and 32 bit so 8 bit might not give a performance boost on them.

No it's not my map. I just remember it quite well cause it was a unique map. Also the one posted (a link to) in that thread is a different map to the one I described, but it is greyscale.

Like I said before, I think the enemymodel needs to be in colour really. Maybe the items, too, not so sure about them. Differentiating between armour types could be hard in greyscale, though, cause they are the same icon apart form the colour difference. Health icons are very simmilar to each other aswell. New icons could be made though I suppose.

I tried the map (from the LEM thread) with both default style and high visibility style graphics. In the high visibility style I found that an enemycolour of "eeeee" (yellow) was easiest to see (compared to the "iiiii" (green) I had been using. In the default style I found the enemycolour I was using "qqqqq" (blue) was good enough.
The high visibility config I use affects the visibility of the enemymodel colours aswell as the map, so that's why I was using green in that compared to blue in the other. I'll see how yellow looks on other maps later.

In Quake Live, although there is no greyscale map option there as it doesn't support custom maps, you can set your enemycolour (since a recent update) to any one of 16.7 million (hexadecimal) colours. I.e. any colour your (regular) PC can display. You have to specify the colour for enemy head, torso, legs, feet all seperately though.

Edit: I didn't say the map was released in 2003. I don't know when it was released.
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a11n
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PostPosted: 09-28-2009 03:16 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I see what you mean.

So how about this(radeon's stylized filter)? :smirk:

CA(r_overbrightbits 1;r_mapoverbrightbits 2)
Image

FFA(r_overbrightbits 1;r_mapoverbrightbits 2) swedish!
Image

CTF(r_overbrightbits 0;r_mapoverbrightbits 4)
Image

Image

Color varies depending on the value of obb & mobb.
ATM obb 0 seems to werk better.
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ThinkError
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PostPosted: 10-02-2009 09:38 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


What a13n is saying makes sense.
Gray screen will make your brain consume less resources even if it is unconscious.
As a result, you can play better and longer.

And here are mine. :)
Image
Image
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ThinkError
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PostPosted: 10-03-2009 04:02 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


More competitively optimized screen. :)

Contrast is much lower than previous config, thus less eye-hurting.
Image

But strings stay white.
Image

In this low-contrast setting bones model works better for team model.
Image

In-game ad is no longer visible. :)
Image
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+JuggerNaut+
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PostPosted: 10-04-2009 12:39 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


you must lose a lot.
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ThinkError
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PostPosted: 10-04-2009 01:13 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


+JuggerNaut+ wrote:
you must lose a lot.

True.
Not due to this config but to high pings.

There were some situations where I could recognize the enemy while he couldn't though he might just be a newbie.
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Zyte
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PostPosted: 10-04-2009 04:09 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


At first i thought wtf. But then again in a way it makes sense, since by adjusting picmip people do something similar, and you don't really need all color. But of course, as DTS said Models and probably items should really be bright.. and then the sshots just got worse and worse :olo:.
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ThinkError
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PostPosted: 10-04-2009 11:25 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Zyte wrote:
as DTS said Models and probably items should really be bright..

If only such an option as r_drawWerldAsGray were to be implemented!

Zyte wrote:
and then the sshots just got worse and worse :olo:.

Bwhahahahahaha.

The goal here is to achieve lower color range(for least eye strain or brain fatigue) while keeping enough contrast.
Actually, in my environment, grayscale turns out to be achievable through LCD option, not through display driver(a13n's approach) which *costs* much.
In that case everything such as web browser turns also grayscale, of course.

At the same time if r_fullscreen is set 0, contrast/brightness/gamma is adjustable through display driver.
So ultra-bright rocket splash can also be made darker.

Only side effect is screenshot no longer matches what you see.
Here is my current level curve.

Image

Note:
Now enemymodel(keel/bright) is pure black(because as I mentioned above, rocket splash is way2bright) and team(visor/bright) is pure white(actually displayed as gray)

And actual screens.
FFA(right one has quad)
Image
CA
Image
CA
Image
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Zyte
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 04:15 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Well i hope you rock the shit out of quake with that setting. For me though, i think black models on a grey background just isn't as useful as the greenbright on almost any color with picmip 5.

Also, when i go much higher then r_picmip 5 i lose at least some depth perception, especially when using RL. I can see the same problem with this. Might be just me.
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ThinkError
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 02:26 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Zyte wrote:
Well i hope you rock the shit out of quake with that setting.

Thank you. :)

Zyte wrote:
Also, when i go much higher then r_picmip 5 i lose at least some depth perception, especially when using RL. I can see the same problem with this. Might be just me.

Depth perception?
I haven't perceived such a thing or cared at all, at least consciously. :tard:
Thank you to point out.
There seems to be still rooms to improve more.
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obsidian
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 04:05 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


ThinkError wrote:
What a13n is saying makes sense.


Riiiiight. Like anyone would believe that ThinkError isn't a13n. :dork:



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MKJ
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 11:56 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


a12n wrote:
Unlike human beings, some natural born hunters such as cats see the world as grayscale.



even tho the whole thread is bollocks, this is factually untrue
cats can see blue and green. (and greyscales, obviously).

also, their brain is built for this, while the human brain isnt. the fact that a cat can hunt better than you + it has less visual senses doesnt mean that if you deprive yourself of senses you suddenly learn a new skill.

not only that, cats are also polyfocal. we arent. and even if we were, the q3 engine doesnt simulate this.

I will end this post with the age-old question: aren't you banned?
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ThinkError
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PostPosted: 10-06-2009 12:21 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
Riiiiight. Like anyone would believe that ThinkError isn't a13n. :dork:

I don't know about him but he must be a nice guy judging from this thread.

@MKJ
Maybe it was just a sort of his catchy phrases to attract people's attention. :sly:
And he's just experimenting with "least brain strain config" for competitive play.

WTF, LOL, why am I so nice to a13n?

By the way, my new shot.
Image
actual color management order
phase1.in-game config (r_vertexlight 1;r_picmip 16;r_obb 0;r_mobb 2;r_intensity 1;r_gamma 1;r_texturemode GL_NEAREST;)
phase2.inverted (radeon specific display driver)
phase3.contrast/brightness/gamma correction(display driver)
phase4.grayscale (LCD option)

The most beneficial benefit of this config is almost everything important is displayed as pure black.
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^misantropia^
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PostPosted: 10-06-2009 05:00 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I spy with my little eye that a13n and ThinkError post from the same region of Japan. Coincidence, yes/no?
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MKJ
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PostPosted: 10-06-2009 05:13 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


yes, quite odd that ThinkError registered the same day a11n got banned. and then agrees with him 100% whilst posting great long posts (like all new members do, as we know)
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obsidian
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PostPosted: 10-06-2009 07:22 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I spy with my little eye that a13n and ThinkError post in the same mannerism of batshit crazy. Coincidence, yes/no?



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Zyte
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PostPosted: 10-06-2009 07:46 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
batshit crazy. Coincidence, yes/no?

Now i'm curious, why did he receive the banhammer? If it was for above, half q3w would prolly be gone.
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obsidian
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PostPosted: 10-06-2009 08:32 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Initially banned for trying to gather credit card information for QL beta keys, we were just about ready to unban him when he posted cock pictures on a couple of occasions.



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ThinkError
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PostPosted: 10-06-2009 02:25 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


^misantropia^ wrote:
I spy with my little eye that a13n and ThinkError post from the same region of Japan. Coincidence, yes/no?

There is a possibility that they just posted through the exact same anonymous proxy server.

MKJ wrote:
yes, quite odd that ThinkError registered the same day a11n got banned. and then agrees with him 100% whilst posting great long posts (like all new members do, as we know)

Let's just give you this famous quote.
"Fact is stranger than fiction."

obsidian wrote:
I spy with my little eye that a13n and ThinkError post in the same mannerism of batshit crazy. Coincidence, yes/no?

Which might just mean that we have the same type of virus in brain. :owned:

LOL, WTF, when was I put to trial? :olo:

So going back to the topic, what I've noticed so far is "RGB color does affect human emotion"
It amplifies the mental excitement, producing more adrenaline、which is not a desirable physical effect.

Why?

1stly, produced adrenaline must be taken apart to be discarded and this process consumes enzymes, which casues fatigue.
2ndly, adrenaline makes blood more sticky to prepare for bleeding, which never happens during ql match. :)
And this sticky blood causes lack of oxygen in your brain.

With grayscale you can lessen the above effects and stay cooler. :cool:
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 10-06-2009 11:15 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That, or you're a sack full of shit
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MKJ
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PostPosted: 10-07-2009 12:21 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


oh, and your postingstyle is exactly that of a13n. only thing missing is "cocky", "cattle" or "werld".
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ThinkError
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PostPosted: 10-07-2009 01:29 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


holysh1t
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PostPosted: 10-07-2009 06:23 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


MKJ wrote:
oh, and your postingstyle is exactly that of a13n. only thing missing is "cocky", "cattle" or "werld".


Why do you even bother crossing inter-dicks with this fella?
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MKJ
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PostPosted: 10-07-2009 07:10 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


i shall not have my intelligence insulted!
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Bacon
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PostPosted: 10-07-2009 04:10 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


man, lol this guy has to be the biggest schizo i've ever seen on these forums



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fKd
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PostPosted: 10-07-2009 05:41 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


adrenaline is what makes fps shooters fun. am i crazy or is that not the point? hmmm. grayscale... jesus
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holysh1t
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PostPosted: 10-08-2009 02:21 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Looks like a13n has done it lately.
Image

Congrats, a13n!
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Zyte
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PostPosted: 10-08-2009 02:47 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


:olo: fuck off already
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holysh1t
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Hey, a13n has just got interviewed by Universal Competitive Gaming Association(UCGA)
Below is a quote.

1.Please introduce yourself and tell us about your gaming background.

I like the number "13" and some people spell internationalization as i18n in short, which looks clever and cool.
So my nickname is a13n(pronounced as "ei"-"juusan"-"enu" in japanese)
Sorry, it doesn't actually make sense.
When I was going to university, my parents bought me a PC to write a report.
I started to play Solider of Fortune, quake2 then quake3 and so on.

2.What do you do in real life?

I hunt babies of ligia oceanica, not babes, along the seashore for a living while doing various volunteer activities on Internet.

3.What are your feelings on QuakeLive being the chosen game play over VQ3?

I'm not an appropriate person to judge.
Wether it's QL or VQ3, all I have to do is fragging opponents in front of me and always prefer team spirit in case of TDM, CA and CTF.

4.Why can you keep so high accuracy even in such a high ping(250-500) environment.

It would just depend on whether you really plan to do it or not.

5.What is your opinion about professinal gaming being called a kind of sports?

If I dare to call it a sport, it IS in that it causes lack of oxygen in brain.
I'd rather think it's a kind of hand magic.
From the perspective of audience, it is enjoyable like watching a sport though.

6.Last question, in all seriousness, what is your future?
Sooner or later I have to retire from competitive scene whether I like it or not.
I am always interested in amusing people on top of anything, not amusing myself.
So next thing to challenge would be shoutcasting.

Thanks for your time, and good luck to you in the rest of Quake Live or Quake Life!
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