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Topic: AEcantw2 - Beta 2 d/l

AEon
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4493

Posted: 09-07-2009 04:44 AM

Working on AEon's Canyon Tower II (AEcantw2) again. The map was originally intended as a Half-Life 2 MP map... only I stopped caring about creating it for that game (I also hate using WorldCraft). Now adding Q3A specific stuff like JPs. The very brush-based map in DSI texture set, has no patches... probably won't get any either. r_speeds of 4K and less, just one case of 5K (no hint brushes, no mitering ), will let me add more geometry-based details now.

@Sock... this might be a map to add nice earth textures and plants as deco, to turn it into a modern "sky resort". Suggestions for good textures / models appreciated.

Presently I am enlarging the central arena to give the bots/players more space to work with.

Alas, we used to have a thread for this map, with feedback, only that must have been before 2005... those threads are gone .

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Hipshot
This is not Æon!

Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 2222

Posted: 09-07-2009 05:24 AM

Give us a link!

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Q3Map2 2516 -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/q3map_2.5.16_win32_x86.zip
Q3Map2 FS_20g -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/q3map2_fs_20g.rar
GtkRadiant 140 -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/GtkRadiantSetup-1.4.0-Q3RTCWET.exe

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AEon
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Posted: 09-07-2009 07:19 AM

Old beta has too many things I need to fix first, to make feedback meaningful... 2-3 days beta 2 should be done.

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AEon
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Posted: 09-08-2009 06:27 AM

I use glass to light the map, after removing some of it, and enlarging the central arena, some areas now are way too dark, so I am using Hipshot's "trick" and comping the map with the -gamma and -compensate settings used in SolarAE.

Left, normal light compile using:
-light -v -fast -patchshadows -samples 3 -bounce 8

Right, light compile with gamma and compensate:
-light -v -fast -patchshadows -samples 3 -bounce 8 -gamma 2.5 -compensate 3

I am not completely sure about the results... the gamma certainly helps to make the dark areas less dark... hmmm...

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WHAT!!
Warrior

Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 81

Posted: 09-08-2009 07:44 AM

I'd tone that down a tiny bit. It looks pretty evenly lit, but also kind of bland.

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Hipshot
This is not Æon!

Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 2222

Posted: 09-08-2009 08:04 AM

Try and use some dirt into the light. Might give this level a kick.

-dirty -dirtscale 3 -dirtdepth 32

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Kaz
Señor Shambler

Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 849

Posted: 09-08-2009 08:13 AM

Hipshot wrote:
Try and use some dirt into the light. Might give this level a kick.

-dirty -dirtscale 3 -dirtdepth 32

I second this, it helped alot with my latest compile tests.

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AEon
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4493

Posted: 09-08-2009 10:23 AM

Testing the dirty settings for the light compile.

Left, "normal" light compile, using:
-light -v -fast -patchshadows -dark -samples 3 -bounce 8 -shade -gamma 2 -compensate 2.5

Right, light compile with "dirty" settings added:
-light -v -fast -patchshadows -dark -samples 3 -bounce 8 -shade -gamma 2 -compensate 2.5 -dirty -dirtscale 3 -dirtdepth 32

As the Q3Map2 wiki states, it subtly darkens the shadows in corners... very nice.

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Silicone_Milk
Immortal

Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 2205

Posted: 09-08-2009 11:45 AM

mmm that lighting looks nice. I've never compiled a map with anything but a normal -light compile but then, of course, I've never actually released anything past alpha

I'm not sure how I feel about the pictures in the hall. They seem extremely out of place to me. I personally think they would look better as holographic displays being projected from the ground.

It would also be nice to see some of that orange from the outside of the structure on the inside. Maybe a muted dirty gray/orange to replace some spots where the darker gray is used as trim.

I definitely want to see a beta soon though A HL2 -> Q3 map sounds interesting to me.

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AEon
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4493

Posted: 09-08-2009 01:08 PM

@Silicone_Milk
... well I like the Far Cry images... they add a bit of deco... but you are right, I still need to come up with some sort of deco texture that contrasts the grey. I was thinking of earth/green tones, plus using plants everywhere.

"holographic displays"... no idea how to do that, but if someone has suggestions, I'll try that out. Projections? or was that a Quake IV thing... forgot

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Hipshot
This is not Æon!

Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 2222

Posted: 09-08-2009 01:31 PM

"painting"
texture with add
same texture with add and with a fast flickering
subtle scannline texture with add and scrolling slow

"projection cone"
gradient texture with add that flickers at the same speed as the second texture stage as the one above.

Just a quick brain storm, don't know how good it will work, needs to be tested.

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Fjoggs
Old Skool'

Joined: 02 May 2002
Posts: 5230

Posted: 09-08-2009 04:45 PM

Hmm, looks kinda.. dull? Boring textures and not much brushwork. Only saying this since I know you can do alot better, not trying to be mean or anything.

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Silicone_Milk
Immortal

Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 2205

Posted: 09-08-2009 05:16 PM

Hipshot wrote:
"painting"
texture with add
same texture with add and with a fast flickering
subtle scannline texture with add and scrolling slow

"projection cone"
gradient texture with add that flickers at the same speed as the second texture stage as the one above.

Just a quick brain storm, don't know how good it will work, needs to be tested.

Exactly what I was thinking with the scrolling scanlines and the flickering.

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Silicone_Milk
Immortal

Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 2205

Posted: 09-08-2009 05:20 PM

AEon wrote:
@Silicone_Milk
... well I like the Far Cry images... they add a bit of deco... but you are right, I still need to come up with some sort of deco texture that contrasts the grey. I was thinking of earth/green tones, plus using plants everywhere.

"holographic displays"... no idea how to do that, but if someone has suggestions, I'll try that out. Projections? or was that a Quake IV thing... forgot

I feel that using warm colors (red, yellow, orange, etc...) to contrast the gray would be a better choice personally as the green in the plants is a colder color and would also add to further contrast. I think that the plants and contrast texture would get lost in each other should you go with an earthy tone.

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AEon
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4493

Posted: 09-09-2009 03:32 AM

Alas warm colors don't really work when you use -gamma ... It is a real pain trying to set the proper color, having the gamma mess it up again.

Presently experimenting with a more orange sky: Gritty Residue by Mighty Pete.

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Hipshot
This is not Æon!

Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 2222

Posted: 09-09-2009 03:45 AM

Then don't use gamma =)
It tend to wash things out. If you don't build the level with gamma and compensate from the beginning, it could come as a shock when it changes that much, you need to rethink your entire perspective of lighting of the level.

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^Ghost
Mercenary

Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 230

Posted: 09-09-2009 02:08 PM

i have a large amount of textures that are based off of dsi_textures on my computer from thousands of defrag maps. when i get home i could post an attachment on here for u. to give ur map some more color to it.. if ur willing to keep it the sort of black and white theme to it, theres a really nice skybox you can find on wadfather called At Sea.. its actualy this skybox here in this map http://q3a.ath.cx/?mapdetails=pornstar-bored

from what i can your map is missing vibrance. try adding some shaders around the trims, also the wall textures are very repetitive

also if u do wanna use the idea of holographic display. i would use flares.
heres a basic flare shader that i use

textures/ghost-flare/fat_white_flare
{
qer_editorimage textures/ghost-custom/fat_white_flare.tga
cull none
surfaceparm nolightmap
surfaceparm nomarks
surfaceparm nonsolid
surfaceparm trans
q3map_surfacelight 200
deformVertexes autosprite
{
map textures/ghost-custom/fat_white_flare.tga
blendfunc add
rgbGen identity
}
}

EDIT: heres the texpack with the accompanying shaders. http://www.sendspace.com/file/yr9dsh

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AEon
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Posted: 09-10-2009 12:19 AM

^Ghost,
thanks for the textures... I don't really see anything I could use, but your textures inspired me to look into other texture sets for more material, i.e. a "good" grate, to then possibly build my own grate from that using DSI textures. I am also looking into directly using other texture sets, e.g. Andromeda or Evil8.

I have this very strange aversion of adding textures from other texture sets... we'll see how this turns out. The skybox I am using is "ely_Nevada" by Colin Lowndes (see the lvlworld, skybox pk3).

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AEon
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4493

Posted: 09-10-2009 09:49 AM

I think I finally have the grips on the lighting. May not be brilliant, but I can live with it. Started to add new textures to the map. Note the boxes in the first shot, are tests. Still trying to come up with a DSI texture set vs. other textures style here though. Enlarging and rebuilding several areas.

Beta download is, alas, still off. Need to recreate too many things.

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^misantropia^
Mentor

Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 3958

Posted: 09-12-2009 07:35 AM

Digging the 'sunny autumn afternoon in the museum' feel, AEon.

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AEon
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Posted: 09-12-2009 09:36 AM

Now that you mention it... it does have the feeling of a gallery. And since then I added some more "art"

Presently reworking all the "drab" areas, adding detail, new textures, etc.

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^Ghost
Mercenary

Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 230

Posted: 09-12-2009 02:30 PM

i would put up the beta now to give some feedback regardless of what is messed up

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fKd
Immortal

Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 2477

Posted: 09-13-2009 09:20 PM

the skybox light does not match the skybox. looks to be the wrong colour. weird. feedback is tough with out something to give feedback from, apart from screenshots. like ^ghost said, gizz us a look aye?

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AEon
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4493

Posted: 09-14-2009 03:08 AM

Yes, the light of the skybox is an issue. It should technically be pure white, but I tried that and it made the map look very "dead". Though I may try toning down the yellow, i.e. a hint of pastel yellow.

BTW, I am actually hoping for some more feedback on the almost final SolarAE, go play-test that map in till beta two of this map .

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AEon
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Posted: 09-15-2009 08:29 AM

AEcantw2 - r133 Beta 2

Been almost 5 years since I last edited this map... I thought it was pretty much done, but I was wrong. Changed quite a few things, prettied it up, optimized many things.

Changes:
Introduced the Andromeda texture set by Speedy for additional decoration. This developed into an interesting, IMO, theme.
The r_speeds started off below 5K, and still are around there, by adding efficient hint brushes.
The bots should play the map really well.
Changed the low level design in a few areas. It turned out not to be useful, so I deleted those "lower" (RA arena) or "upper" (LG room) areas, only using them for deco now. This made the gameplay more concise.
Central arena completely redone, much larger, has walkways, central 3xJP.
All the areas that used to be very cramped are now much more generous to navigate.
The vertical JP effect is by Hipshot from SolarAE, the JP ring and shader is from AEsafe (Sock's original). I created new white respawn pad textures for most weapons/armor/items based on Hipshot's designs (again from Solar).
Skybox "Nevada" was created by Colin Lowndes (download the skybox pack from lvlworld). The more attentive player will notice the "crappy" floor skybox texture: I had to "re-create" one, because it had never been created... alas less than optimal.
"Oil barrels are the new boxes" (tm)
Play it in FFA or Team DM.
Hundreds of other changes... so much for the map being done .

Download:
map-aecantw2_r133_beta2.zip (5.62 MB) @ hugelaser.com

(Install: Unpack the .zip into your baseq3\ folder, run the map via in-game skirmish button.)

Feedback:
Feedback welcome. I am aware of a few clipping issues, where you can see another part of the map, need to rebuild those areas to fix this, but this is presently more cosmetic.

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^Ghost
Mercenary

Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 230

Posted: 09-15-2009 10:24 AM

i noticed u had differnt sectors. maybe u can color code each sector. i think i said this b4 that the walls seemed repetitive, and quite boring to look at.

and for a more suitable skybox. i think this one would be more fitting to the style of the map... i dont feel liek posting a dl link but u can find it here http://jaj.planetquake.gamespy.com/files.html ... its called jajspace1 or jajspace2 either one its nice and soothing.

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AEon
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
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Posted: 09-20-2009 11:30 AM

No one else interested in testing the map and giving some feedback?

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monaster
The Afflicted

Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 530

Posted: 09-21-2009 02:24 PM

DLing it right now and preparing to give some feedback if I find time in the next few (busy) days!

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-Lee Trevino, golfer who actually has been struck by lightning.

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monaster
The Afflicted

Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 530

Posted: 09-22-2009 01:43 PM

I like that map, not the typical gothic stuff that had amazed the community for so long years ago (I pretty much grew fond of "other-themed" projects). It's a bit hard to navigate at times at least if you want a fast-paced deathmatch. And you seem to have forgotten three or four pictures which are not clipped, so you can stand on top of their brush edges. All these are located near the quad, most of them inside the very same room containing the quad (as seen in picture d) of your "AEcantw2 - r133 Beta 2" screenshots) and one or two on the outside walls.
EDIT: More precise info on the location of the pictures/paintings.

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AEon
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4493

Posted: 09-22-2009 11:54 PM

@monaster
Fixed the clipping of about 10 images, thanks... very observant of you to notice them, you must have tried to jump on those frames?

Regarding gameflow and fast DM... true... strafe-jumping all over the place will in several areas not work all too well, due to the old-school layout. If you'd care to take a top/down shot of the map, and paint into the image the areas you'd prefer to be faster, or even sketch a better flow, I'll try to look into it.

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^Ghost
Mercenary

Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 230

Posted: 09-23-2009 09:28 AM

its a bit hard with all the sharp turns to give it more a better flow in strafing. its pretty good as it is, but to improve it will need lots of work.

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AEon
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Posted: 09-23-2009 11:00 AM

I already cut a few corners - literally - but that may not be enough... I am shying away from large changes, because the map is a re-make after all, and that includes the "retro angly" element. But if there are "obviously" annoying areas, I am open to suggestions.

Presently I have played to map so often, that I no longer notice the sharp corners.

The central arena, I am still not sure about. The tripple-JP IMO works, just the floor an ceiling designs might be "spiffed up" some more. I also want to explore the rust metal skeleton theme (holding the structure together) some more.

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monaster
The Afflicted

Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 530

Posted: 09-24-2009 05:11 PM

AEon wrote:
@monaster
Fixed the clipping of about 10 images, thanks... very observant of you to notice them, you must have tried to jump on those frames?

Exactly! Not sure why I'm doing this, but it seems to help sometimes, at least in that case.

Quote:
Regarding gameflow and fast DM... true... strafe-jumping all over the place will in several areas not work all too well, due to the old-school layout. If you'd care to take a top/down shot of the map, and paint into the image the areas you'd prefer to be faster, or even sketch a better flow, I'll try to look into it.

I'd rather say, leave it the way it is already constructed. ^Ghost also pointed out that it could be a lot of work to change something regarding the map's game-flow. If I actually come across some "obviously annoying areas", I'll post them here in the next few days.

Quote:
The central arena, I am still not sure about. The tripple-JP IMO works, just the floor an ceiling designs might be "spiffed up" some more.

I'm curious as to what extent you're going to change this area(s). As far as I'm concerned, I've never had any remarks toward this construction, but let's see what you will (probably) do to it.

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sumatra
Insane Quaker

Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 325

Posted: 09-25-2009 01:22 AM

The map feels very cramped. It would change too much of your basic layout to get this "issue" solved. So I agree with Ghost and monaster to keep it as it is. Though I have two things i want to point out:

- I would lose the L-wall ind the LG/Quad area.
I think there is far too little air to breath, especially to use quad (splashdamage) with a projectile weapon.

- I would recommend you to use a visual massive skybox, that fits the theme.
The current one is way too boring to fit the theme IMO.

- If you put the MH in the air over the third middle jumppad it makes things more interesting (like q3dm17). Just a thought.

- A colorsystem would be nice, but is to be well thought. Don't know if you want to put in some more work on that...

Generally it feels like a oldskool-map. So, you definately achieved a nice retrofeeling.

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AEon
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4493

Posted: 09-25-2009 02:30 AM

@sumatra
The map feels very cramped.
I'd save a few areas, especially the corners of the strucure are cramped, whereas the central arena and the "antechambers to the arena" (3 of the them) are actually almost too large.

I would lose the L-wall ind the LG/Quad area.
If you ignore the Quad, it is large enough IMO, but you are right, jumping off the Quad pad, you always slam right into the doorway. I like that L-wall, vis-wise as well, but I'll try to come up with another way to make the area larger. I wanted it to be a bit higher up... so I may be enlarging the whole corner.

I would recommend you to use a visual massive skybox, that fits the theme.
The skybox fits the theme of the map, a Canyon Tower, perfectly, and I find it calming to look out of those windows with that vista.

If you put the MH in the air over the third middle jumppad.
I shied away from that because the bots will never (or almost never) be able to reach the MH then. Come to think of it, did the bots ever go for the MH in q3dm17? Maybe adding a botroam, could help here. But the idea is fine, will think about it some more.

The original HL map was Febuary 1999, and the last time I edited the map was December 2004... so the map is retro in every respect

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Give us a link!

Old beta has too many things I need to fix first, to make feedback meaningful... 2-3 days beta 2 should be done.

I'd tone that down a tiny bit. It looks pretty evenly lit, but also kind of bland.

Try and use some dirt into the light. Might give this level a kick. -dirty -dirtscale 3 -dirtdepth 32

Hipshot wrote:Try and use some dirt into the light. Might give this level a kick. -dirty -dirtscale 3 -dirtdepth 32I second this, it helped alot with my latest compile tests.

Hmm, looks kinda.. dull? Boring textures and not much brushwork. Only saying this since I know you can do alot better, not trying to be mean or anything.

Alas warm colors don't really work when you use -gamma ... It is a real pain trying to set the proper color, having the gamma mess it up again.Presently experimenting with a more orange sky: Gritty Residue by Mighty Pete.

Then don't use gamma =)It tend to wash things out. If you don't build the level with gamma and compensate from the beginning, it could come as a shock when it changes that much, you need to rethink your entire perspective of lighting of the level.

Digging the 'sunny autumn afternoon in the museum' feel, AEon.

Now that you mention it... it does have the feeling of a gallery. And since then I added some more "art" Presently reworking all the "drab" areas, adding detail, new textures, etc.

i would put up the beta now to give some feedback regardless of what is messed up

the skybox light does not match the skybox. looks to be the wrong colour. weird. feedback is tough with out something to give feedback from, apart from screenshots. like ^ghost said, gizz us a look aye?

No one else interested in testing the map and giving some feedback?

DLing it right now and preparing to give some feedback if I find time in the next few (busy) days!

its a bit hard with all the sharp turns to give it more a better flow in strafing. its pretty good as it is, but to improve it will need lots of work.

Try and use some dirt into the light. Might give this level a kick.

-dirty -dirtscale 3 -dirtdepth 32

Hipshot wrote:
Try and use some dirt into the light. Might give this level a kick.

-dirty -dirtscale 3 -dirtdepth 32

I second this, it helped alot with my latest compile tests.

Alas warm colors don't really work when you use -gamma ... It is a real pain trying to set the proper color, having the gamma mess it up again.

Presently experimenting with a more orange sky: Gritty Residue by Mighty Pete.

Then don't use gamma =)
It tend to wash things out. If you don't build the level with gamma and compensate from the beginning, it could come as a shock when it changes that much, you need to rethink your entire perspective of lighting of the level.

Now that you mention it... it does have the feeling of a gallery. And since then I added some more "art"

Presently reworking all the "drab" areas, adding detail, new textures, etc.