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Topic: new Q4 map - beta 1

pjw
True Nightmare

Joined: 06 May 2000
Posts: 4373

Posted: 12-12-2005 08:37 PM

I've been working on this (as yet untitled) Q4 map off and on for a loooong time, and decided it was about time to finish it up. It's a medium-to-small FFA map, and can also be played Tourney or TeamDM if you're into that sort of thing.

I'm too much of a lazy bastard tonight to mess with a def file, so if you're unsure how to load it, unzip the pk4 to your baseq4, start up the game, pull down the console, and enter these things:

si_pure 0
si_map mp/pjw4dm1
net_lanserver 1 (keep people from trying to connect)
net_allowcheats 1 (allows you to noclip, etc.)
spawnserver

Screenies:

Download: (yep, it's fileplanet, sorry...)
http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?/plan ... jw4dm1.zip

Stuff still to do:

-botclipping
-stair clipping
-pickup rearranging/changing, depending upon feedback
-possibly reworking the corner between the basement and LG, since drawcalls/vis there suck a fairly large-ish chunk of ass

(P.S. Why doesn't the BBCode link work anymore? I can't remember how to embed links and don't feel like figuring it out...)

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wviperw
Immortal

Joined: 17 Mar 2001
Posts: 2062

Posted: 12-12-2005 10:07 PM

woot! A pjw beta!

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Scourge
Pestilence

Joined: 25 Mar 2002
Posts: 15822

Posted: 12-12-2005 10:37 PM

Mirror

You can just type in the url without any tags and it will parse it automatically.

edit: Sadly I can't test out the map as I don't have the game yet.

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wviperw
Immortal

Joined: 17 Mar 2001
Posts: 2062

Posted: 12-12-2005 10:47 PM

Hmm, I was all ready to give you a nice recorded demo of comments and feedback but when I go to hit the recordNetDemo button it says "Can only record net demo as client" or something like that. Does anyone know of a way to record net demos in MP without having to connect to an online server? I tried starting up a dedicated server so I could connect to that but it wouldn't let me have 2 instances of Q4 running at the same time.

Sorry, pjw, no feedback until I get this demo thing figured out.

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pjw
True Nightmare

Joined: 06 May 2000
Posts: 4373

Posted: 12-12-2005 11:17 PM

scourge34, you kick much ass. Thanks for the mirror!

wviperw wrote:
Sorry, pjw, no feedback until I get this demo thing figured out.

win_allowMultipleInstances might help.

(Complete list of cvars here:
http://ucguides.savagehelp.com/Quake4/fullcvarlist.htm )

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wviperw
Immortal

Joined: 17 Mar 2001
Posts: 2062

Posted: 12-13-2005 12:40 AM

Well I tried setting it to 1 but then every time I would create a dedicated server it seems to have reset it back to 0 (and not allow me to change it). So then I tried the Quake4Ded.exe and this seemed to actually allow me to change the setting. However, I then tried getting into a 2nd instance of Q4 and got a big ole' windows exception, subsequently crashing Q4.

I miss the old and simple days of typing "record demo" and nothing else.

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Oeloe
The Illuminated

Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 1530

Posted: 12-13-2005 02:03 AM

Start up Q4 (not q4ded but the client) with +set win_allowmultipleinstances 1 in the shortcut. Works here. Btw, it was always "g_synchronousclients 1;record demo01;seta g_synchronousclients 0". Unless you're talking about the pre-Q3 days.

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Dr4ch
Warrior

Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 96

Posted: 12-13-2005 03:22 AM

I hope its not again like your maps from q3 where after having your maps i throwed all my stuff away

anyway for his royal lazyness, I had the def stuff in my clipboard :

// custom map loadscreen for mymap.map

mapDef mp/pjw4dm1 {
"name" "pjw4dm1 beta"
"DM" "1"
"Team DM" "0"
"Tourney" "1"
"CTF" "0"
"Arena CTF" "0"
"Gametype_Deathmatch" "1"
"Gametype_TeamDeathmatch" "1"
"Gametype_Tournament" "1"
"Gametype_CaptureTheFlag" "0"
"Gametype_ArenaCaptureTheFlag" "0"
"loadimage" "gfx/guis/loadscreens/pjw4dm1.tga"
"mp_thumb" "gfx/guis/mainmenu/thumb_pjw4dm1.tga"

}

Now im gonna hunt the sabot down on some maps

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pjw
True Nightmare

Joined: 06 May 2000
Posts: 4373

Posted: 12-13-2005 11:25 AM

Heh. First a mirror and then Dr4ch writes a def. I love this place. Thanks Dr4ch.

wviperw, sorry you're having troubles--if Oeloe's suggestion doesn't work, I'll try asking around at work when I get a chance re: recording a demo on a local lan server. Of course, I'd be happy with simple typed feedback.

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Fjoggs
Old Skool'

Joined: 02 May 2002
Posts: 5230

Posted: 12-13-2005 12:49 PM

These raven guys just gets everything in their laps don't they?

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wviperw
Immortal

Joined: 17 Mar 2001
Posts: 2062

Posted: 12-13-2005 12:58 PM

Oleo: Yeah, I tried what you said but it still crashed my second instance of Q4 as soon as I tried loading it. Also, for Q3 g_sync wasn't required, it was only nice if you didn't want choppy demos. IOW, for feedback demos it didn't matter.

pjw: Argh, its so much easier to point things out in a demo, but here is some old fashioned textual feedback for you...

-RG placement - its in one of the longest stretches of the map, not good IMO. You can aim from one side of the long RG "hall" to the other, meaning it will promote slower snipey type affairs. I'd rather see the railgun in a more dangerous and cramped positioni so it isn't immediately rendered as all-powerful.

-bottom floor height - Seems like the bottom floor in some areas has a really low ceiling, is this necessary?

-low doorways - Related to this, you seem to hit your head a lot jumping through some of the doorways since the ceiling is so low

-double JP near quad - I'm not a big fan. Makes for kind of finnicky gameplay there. I'd rather see a single JP or maybe a plat

-crates - there were a bunch of crates that looked like you could jump on them but in fact you couldn't. I know this is partly due to the fact that the Q4 bounding box is taller, but I'd prefer that some of the smaller crates be jump-onable. Also, the crate in the ladder room (I love the ladder btw), needs another small crate so you can hop onto the big crate and jump over to the ladder (as opposed to just ramp jumping to it, give the player options)

-ladder area - The L-shaped path needs a wall/fence there so you don't fall off the edge. You've got a lot of places where you can fall into the void, and if you're a noob player or have a bad ping this map is not going to be a fun experience. This is one of the places where I think you need to block the player from falling. You might put walls/fences in a few other places as well.

-25h on crates in quad room - Kind of a weird place for it. You see it from below but can't grab it, and from above you don't usually think about it. Maybe make it so you can access it from below (more small crates) and maybe make it worth accessing by changing it to a 50h?

-hyperblaster - I'd say move that to the little "nook" near where the MH tele dest is (currently has rl ammo and shards I believe). This will make for much more interesting battles in this area because the freshly spawned players will have to go into the nook to grab a good weapon.

-JP triggers - In general the JP triggers were too high, so it looked like I was never actually touching the JPs when being propeled. One time, upon killing my opponent he even dropped his RL onto a JP and I couldn't grab it b/c the trigger brush was so high, lol.

-MH room JPs - These were very confusing for me. I know you're trying to do something different w/ them, but the confusion combined w/ the void right near them was not fun. Not sure what you can do, maybe remove the void? Also, after dropping down one JP chute and getting propelled forward, I kept on wanting to strafe jump to the opposite side JP and take that up, which I know you can't do but still.

-edges of level - The edges of the level (like the side panels of the map) that touch the void were all pretty bland geometry-wise. Is there any way you could add some detail to them so that you at least have something purty to look at after falling to your death?

-overlapping brushes - Not exactly sure where this is at (cough b/c I can't record a proper demo :P cough), but somewhere on the lower level if you looked up at the ceilling there were 2 overlapping light brushes I believe. They are pretty easy to spot and I'm sure somebody else will screenshot them if you can't find them.

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jester!
The Afflicted

Joined: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 969

Posted: 12-13-2005 02:38 PM

Did this get posted to esr? I know ppl have been wanting some TDM maps...

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spookmineer
The Afflicted

Joined: 29 Nov 2002
Posts: 622

Posted: 12-13-2005 03:25 PM

Recording a netdemo offline:

Read DarkangelUK's post here http://www.overdrivepc.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9594 (the 7th post).

You can make a dedicated server (Quake4Ded.exe) then join on that server (by launching the usual Q4 exe) and record netdemos. (You will not need the TFJ mod but for trickers who are used to Q3 defrag it's the closest thing ).

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spookmineer
The Afflicted

Joined: 29 Nov 2002
Posts: 622

Posted: 12-13-2005 03:29 PM

Easiest demo recording script I've seen:

// Q4 Network Recording script
// author: signa
bind DOWNARROW "vstr ua_record"
set "ua_record" "vstr ua_rec"
set "ua_rec" "addchatline recording_ON;recordNetDemo;set ua_record vstr ua_stop"
set "ua_stop" "stopNetDemo;addchatline recording_OFF;set ua_record vstr ua_rec"

This will start recording a demo by pressing the down arrow, and stop by pressing it again.
Demos are named demo000.netdemo and counting up. Q4 keeps track of demo names so you will never inadvertently record over a previous demo by using this script.

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Johnny Law
True Nightmare

Joined: 16 Nov 1999
Posts: 4062

Posted: 12-13-2005 03:38 PM

Those louver things are tasty.

BTW ... botclipping? Just a precautionary measure I guess?

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pjw
True Nightmare

Joined: 06 May 2000
Posts: 4373

Posted: 12-13-2005 07:06 PM

@Fjoggs:

wviperw, thanks for the extensive feedback! I'll address a few things:
wviperw wrote:
RG placement

Yeah, decent points. I'll play around with it a bit...maybe switch RG/LG? (and obviously move the slugs if I do so)
wviperw wrote:
you seem to hit your head a lot jumping through some of the doorways since the ceiling is so low

Where are you hitting your head? I was unable to find any place in the level where you can jump and hit your head on the ceiling, and I thought I had been pretty careful about that--I was trying for minimal height to make that area feel pretty claustrophobic. There are a couple of places where you can bash into doorways while descending ramps...is that what you mean?
wviperw wrote:
double JP near quad

Re: this and the shoot-you-sideways jumppads entering the basement, you may be stuck with them. I like them just because they're different. If people seem to unanimously dislike them, then I'll reconsider...
wviperw wrote:
the crate in the ladder room (I love the ladder btw), needs another small crate so you can hop onto the big crate and jump over to the ladder (as opposed to just ramp jumping to it, give the player options)

You can reach that crate via a ramp jump coming up from the basement too--how many options do you want? I'll see if I can find another good spot there for a small crate...I'll also do something about the health near the Quad.
And yeah, reworking the L-shaped area is kind of on the to-do list. Draw calls suck there, and it is a bit too easy to fall off. It will be changed next time around.
wviperw wrote:
hyperblaster - I'd say move that to the little "nook" near where the MH tele dest is (currently has rl ammo and shards I believe). This will make for much more interesting battles in this area because the freshly spawned players will have to go into the nook to grab a good weapon.

You lost me here...it seems to me that having to go into that dead-end nook to get a decent weapon would be kind of annoying. I deliberately put the HB in a place where it would be easy to get quickly from a couple of directions, and I'm wary of puting weapons in odd places, unless it's a BFG or DMG or something...
wviperw wrote:
JP triggers

Will fix.
wviperw wrote:
The edges of the level (like the side panels of the map) that touch the void were all pretty bland
I'll see if I can spice them up a tad in some simple way.
wviperw wrote:
overlapping brushes
Got it, thanks!

@Johnny Law: Well, look who! Yeah, the botclipping seems sensible, since bots seem to already be in the works in the community.

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Shallow
Veteran

Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 167

Posted: 12-14-2005 02:57 AM

I'm liking the louvres styled panels on the towery bits in the second shot. I'll have to try to remember to give this one a spin, probably not until the weekend though.

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Lukin
blaze a blaze

Joined: 29 Jan 2000
Posts: 344

Posted: 12-14-2005 05:27 AM

The map reminds me "Cremaster Conditioning". I'm not a big fan of that level, so this one is not my fav too. Dunno exactly why though. I guess it is because it's hard to find the flow on it - too much ramps, pipes, crates, tricks and corridors. Add more normal routes and more open spaces and it should be much better.

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pjw
True Nightmare

Joined: 06 May 2000
Posts: 4373

Posted: 12-14-2005 11:54 AM

Lukin wrote:
The map reminds me "Cremaster Conditioning". I'm not a big fan of that level, so this one is not my fav too. Dunno exactly why though. I guess it is because it's hard to find the flow on it - too much ramps, pipes, crates, tricks and corridors. Add more normal routes and more open spaces and it should be much better.

Thanks for the feedback Lukin! I'm not sure why it reminds you of Cremaster...maybe just because you can fall off the edge of both maps in quite a few places?

In any case, yeah, this map has a pretty tight, claustrophobic feel to most of it (expect maybe the RA area?), and to change that I'd pretty much have to make a new map, so that's not going to happen--at least not right away. I'll see if I can make something with a little more elbow-room next time though.

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Lukin
blaze a blaze

Joined: 29 Jan 2000
Posts: 344

Posted: 12-16-2005 03:47 AM

pjw wrote:
Thanks for the feedback Lukin! I'm not sure why it reminds you of Cremaster...maybe just because you can fall off the edge of both maps in quite a few places?

Yeah, that's probably that thing.

Quote:
In any case, yeah, this map has a pretty tight, claustrophobic feel to most of it (expect maybe the RA area?), and to change that I'd pretty much have to make a new map, so that's not going to happen--at least not right away. I'll see if I can make something with a little more elbow-room next time though.

Well, you can remove some obstacles (like the pillar next to quad damage), replace some crates with jumppads maybe, and at least add some colors or trims to corridors so it would be easier for the players to know where they are. I didn't liked the first beta but it doesn't mean it's a bad map - I don't like many good maps And this one still got a potential.

BTW You've got a Lunaran's quote in your sig: "We're just prudish snobs and can't comprehend the struggle of the little level designer against the iron heel of the jackboot of the mapping establishment."
It must be really bad map or a pesky mapper that provoked Lunaran to said this. I wonder what was that guy's respond?

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pjw
True Nightmare

Joined: 06 May 2000
Posts: 4373

Posted: 12-16-2005 12:39 PM

Lukin wrote:
Well, you can remove some obstacles (like the pillar next to quad damage), replace some crates with jumppads maybe, and at least add some colors or trims to corridors so it would be easier for the players to know where they are.

I'll see what I can do. Getting to the YA from below is already a bit easier...

[Edit: What pillar next to the quad? You mean the wall the quad shelf attaches to, or the second-story pillar next to the pipes, or the divider down on the first floor...?]

Lukin wrote:
Lunaran's quote

If I remember correctly, it wasn't a map, but someone talking about how it's hard for new mappers to get any recognition vs. established mappers and/or pros. Something like that. I just liked the quote.

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jester!
The Afflicted

Joined: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 969

Posted: 12-16-2005 01:21 PM

In the last screenie of the first post on the very right foreground of the pic the detail on the wall gets in your way if you try and jump for the quad. Least I think thats what hes talking about.

I kind of liked the crouch slide jump up to the health below the quad btw, maybe make it a 50 like was mentioned earlier though so its more appealing to go for it.

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pjw
True Nightmare

Joined: 06 May 2000
Posts: 4373

Posted: 12-16-2005 01:32 PM

jester! wrote:
In the last screenie of the first post on the very right foreground of the pic the detail on the wall gets in your way if you try and jump for the quad. Least I think thats what hes talking about.

I kind of liked the crouch slide jump up to the health below the quad btw, maybe make it a 50 like was mentioned earlier though so its more appealing to go for it.

Ah, I see. Well...I didn't think you could reach the quad via a strafe jump there--I may just suck. I was intending people to have to slope-jump off the little edge-trim thingies on either side. If you can reach it that way then I'll probably just raise it a bit more...I suppose I could cut the wall trim back too, just to torture people.

And yeah, It'll be a +50 on those crates next beta.

btw, I realized I forgot to respond to your earlier post--sorry about that. I'll probably spread the next (final?) beta around to a few more places...

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jester!
The Afflicted

Joined: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 969

Posted: 12-16-2005 01:42 PM

Should be able to make it, I could get close without useing a mouse on my laptop so it should be possible with a proper setup.

And if you cant, if its unabstructed you could get some help from a NG or HB climb so either way it would be nice to have the potential to make the jump.

And dont worry, I dont expect every post of mine to be directly responed to, I have asked enough questions in Q4.Dis which havent received answers.

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Scourge
Pestilence

Joined: 25 Mar 2002
Posts: 15822

Posted: 12-16-2005 01:57 PM

pjw wrote:
Thanks for the mirror!

Anytime bud. If you or anyone else needs me to put one up don't hesitate to pm me or something.

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seremtan
Etile

Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 34900

Posted: 12-16-2005 02:09 PM

that looks pretty

it seems every q4 map posted here looks like a watercolour painting. q4 does have dynamic lighting, yes?

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pjw
True Nightmare

Joined: 06 May 2000
Posts: 4373

Posted: 12-16-2005 02:51 PM

jester! wrote:
Should be able to make it, I could get close without useing a mouse on my laptop so it should be possible with a proper setup.

And if you cant, if its unabstructed you could get some help from a NG or HB climb so either way it would be nice to have the potential to make the jump.

Obstruction will be gone next time, and we will see...

scourge34 wrote:
coolness
Thanks again.

seremtan wrote:
q4 does have dynamic lighting, yes?

Indeed. It takes a bit of work to get lighting looking decent though, partly because it's just so different from Q3, and partly because the sheer wealth of options can be a little overwhelming (e.g. ambient options, color vs. brightness/size, projected vs. volumetric, the very different looks gained by just from moving the light center around with volumetric, and all the different light shaders that can be assigned to any given light, etc.). And of course performance/light count.

Time spent messing with lighting is far, far more, proportionally, than when Q3 mapping, at least for me.

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Jemcdv
Insane Quaker

Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 286

Posted: 12-17-2005 06:06 PM

I would comment if I had q4 installed on this machine.. but from what I can see looks like a solid pjw map. hawt stuff, I can't wait to give it a go when I get back (perhaps for the next beta)

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SonicClang
The Illuminated

Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 1079

Posted: 12-17-2005 06:47 PM

YAY!!!!! pjw's making a Quake 4 map!!!!! Awesome man. I'm downloading it right now to try it out.

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Lukin
blaze a blaze

Joined: 29 Jan 2000
Posts: 344

Posted: 12-19-2005 04:06 AM

pjw wrote:
[Edit: What pillar next to the quad? You mean the wall the quad shelf attaches to, or the second-story pillar next to the pipes, or the divider down on the first floor...?]

3rd shot, upper right corner. It often hampers players (or at least hampers me )when I'm jumping from this little ramp on left.

Quote:
I just liked the quote.

That what I supposed. Lunaran's site is a great reading too.
Now I only have to figure what's between Kiltron and Foo

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pjw
True Nightmare

Joined: 06 May 2000
Posts: 4373

Posted: 12-19-2005 06:25 AM

Lukin wrote:
3rd shot, upper right corner

It's gone.

New beta, hopefully, by the weekend.

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SonicClang
The Illuminated

Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 1079

Posted: 12-19-2005 01:48 PM

Ok pjw, now that I've finally got some free time (I'm finally done with cdoom) I'm going to give this level a run through tonight. Even though you'll have a new version soon I'll give you some feedback on it. I feel so bad, I haven't even finished Quake 4 all the way through yet. hangs head in shame

I love the "Raven" squad, and the "Badger" squad, those were some nice Madison touches.

I can't wait to fricken play this level.

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SonicClang
The Illuminated

Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 1079

Posted: 12-20-2005 01:14 PM

This is a classic pjw level. I like the tightness of it. There are so many routes to get around. I must have ran around in it for 10 minutes before I had both seen everything and knew my way around. And you've always got at least ONE thing that's hard to get. in this case it's the quad damage. I know how to get it, but I just couldn't do it.

I gotta say, I love the Quake 4 MP physics, and you've taken really good advantage of them with the angled brushes. The one guy said you couldn't get on top of those crates... yeah you can, you just have to get a running start and jump at the top of the ramp. I got on my first try.

Very well done.

You say you have botclipping yet to do??? What bots?

I used fraps to make a quick video. I don't have the registered version so I keep having to press record... there are a couple splices during this. http://sonicclang.ringdev.com/vid/pjw4dm1.wmv This is easier for me than making a demo.

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498

Posted: 12-20-2005 06:55 PM

SonicClang wrote:
What bots?

These bots

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pjw
True Nightmare

Joined: 06 May 2000
Posts: 4373

Posted: 12-20-2005 07:09 PM

Yeah, those, and all the other ones that I expect to see eventually.

SonicClang wrote:
The one guy said you couldn't get on top of those crates...
I'm pretty sure he was complaining about the crates that were just slightly too high to jump on from the ground (like the one near the ladder w. the slugs on it)--they look like you could make it if you're used to Q3, but you can't quite.

In any case, I'm glad you like the level--there used to be even more options to get around, but draw calls were beating my ass and I had to go through and close up a bunch of openings. Also, the Quad area and the bridge on the other side of the wall used to be all one big open area, but the openness plus the many doorways and hallways was just too much.

Thanks for the vid--it was fun watching.

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Go to page 1, 2 Next

Quake3World.com | Forum Index | Level Editing & Modeling

woot! A pjw beta!

Mirror You can just type in the url without any tags and it will parse it automatically. edit: Sadly I can't test out the map as I don't have the game yet.

scourge34, you kick much ass. Thanks for the mirror! wviperw wrote:Sorry, pjw, no feedback until I get this demo thing figured out. win_allowMultipleInstances might help. (Complete list of cvars here: http://ucguides.savagehelp.com/Quake4/fullcvarlist.htm )

Start up Q4 (not q4ded but the client) with +set win_allowmultipleinstances 1 in the shortcut. Works here. Btw, it was always "g_synchronousclients 1;record demo01;seta g_synchronousclients 0". Unless you're talking about the pre-Q3 days.

These raven guys just gets everything in their laps don't they?

Did this get posted to esr? I know ppl have been wanting some TDM maps...

Those louver things are tasty. BTW ... botclipping? Just a precautionary measure I guess?

I'm liking the louvres styled panels on the towery bits in the second shot. I'll have to try to remember to give this one a spin, probably not until the weekend though.

pjw wrote:Thanks for the mirror! Anytime bud. If you or anyone else needs me to put one up don't hesitate to pm me or something.

that looks pretty it seems every q4 map posted here looks like a watercolour painting. q4 does have dynamic lighting, yes?

I would comment if I had q4 installed on this machine.. but from what I can see looks like a solid pjw map. hawt stuff, I can't wait to give it a go when I get back (perhaps for the next beta)

YAY!!!!! pjw's making a Quake 4 map!!!!! Awesome man. I'm downloading it right now to try it out.

Lukin wrote:3rd shot, upper right corner It's gone. New beta, hopefully, by the weekend.

SonicClang wrote:What bots? These bots

Mirror

You can just type in the url without any tags and it will parse it automatically.

edit: Sadly I can't test out the map as I don't have the game yet.

scourge34, you kick much ass. Thanks for the mirror!

wviperw wrote:
Sorry, pjw, no feedback until I get this demo thing figured out.

win_allowMultipleInstances might help.

(Complete list of cvars here:
http://ucguides.savagehelp.com/Quake4/fullcvarlist.htm )

Those louver things are tasty.

BTW ... botclipping? Just a precautionary measure I guess?

pjw wrote:
Thanks for the mirror!

Anytime bud. If you or anyone else needs me to put one up don't hesitate to pm me or something.

that looks pretty

it seems every q4 map posted here looks like a watercolour painting. q4 does have dynamic lighting, yes?

Lukin wrote:
3rd shot, upper right corner

It's gone.

New beta, hopefully, by the weekend.

SonicClang wrote:
What bots?

These bots