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Topic Starter Topic: AEcell - Cell Texture Pack - beta2 d/l
AEon
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PostPosted: 10-03-2009 11:35 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'll be starting a new map soon, using Evil Lair's texture set. To make the map a bit more unique I started to re-create some classic id textures in his style (with permission from Evil Lair), I'll probably also experiment with creating orange/black versions of other texture sets, if that is permissible.

So far I created 16 textures, the more observant mapper will probably recognize the re-created originals...


Please note, this is my first set of textures, some will probably need to be redone, still need to test them in the editor and in-game.

If *you* would like to see certain textures in the "template" style, just post the exact texture name, and I'll look into it. I have looked through all the Q3A id textures, and have not found much that I'd want to re-create, so any other inspiration would be nice.
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fKd
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PostPosted: 10-03-2009 11:37 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


trims, more trims! oh and weapon/item markers :) this will come in very handy :D oh and a few more floor variations
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monaster
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PostPosted: 10-04-2009 01:22 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


And thus, the orange era has begun... Agreed, we need more trims! And light, we need more light! (Although I'm not sure if orange light in an already orange environment would be a total overkill.)



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AEon
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PostPosted: 10-04-2009 01:48 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I never use trims (on purpose that is). So I have no idea what to do here. Post some "good" trim examples, and I'll look into it... Evil Lair has some "simple" trims, but none of the maps using the texture set ever used them.

About the weapon / item markers... IMO, those I derived from Hipshot's designs, i.e. in white would pretty much fit for this texture set as well. Though I could recreate them all in black. Will try that.

Some more textures...


The window turned out quite nicely... the "elephant" is the only thing I can draw, added as a possible easter egg somewhere. :toothy:

Weapon spawns coming next.


Update: About light... well... I have shaders for the default template light textures and there is also a red version. But I will probably use a sheet of animated white or red from AEglow as a light source in the map + plus the white light of the skybox. So I won't really need lamps. Again I looked into the id textures but could not find anything I'd really use... well the neon lights might work. Hmmm... again suggest a good source texture and I'll look into it.
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monaster
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PostPosted: 10-04-2009 02:18 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I was also thinking of neon lights. I'll see if there's anything special I would recommend. As for now:
Quote:

@ easteregg: yee, ottifanten! :smirk:

[EDIT: Made quote work]



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AEon
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PostPosted: 10-04-2009 02:55 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


monaster wrote:
@ easteregg: yee, ottifanten!

Genau :)

Presently scaling up the small icons for all items and weapons and retracing them (except those that are already HQ). The textures used in the Andromeda texture set (see AEcantw2) also could be nice to have as "deco" in the template texture set.
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AEon
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PostPosted: 10-04-2009 06:07 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Finished re-creating all items and weapons:


Initially wanted to use Hipshot's hires pads, but they differed in style too much from the rest of the textures, so I based everything on the original id textures.

Just noted, might want to create generic item / weapon pads... hmm...
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AEon
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PostPosted: 10-04-2009 10:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Since this is my first set of textures, of course there are issues with the transparency, that I have probably never really understood.

Issue: The weapon and item pads.
  • Using 32bit PS images that are transparent, plastered the pads onto them. Background layer is transparent. Saved the images as TGA 32bit. In preview this seems to work (my file browser's thumbnail preview in folders).
  • In GTKradiant 1.2.13 all the images with transparency that are attached to shaders have a white background (not the frame, the transparent background is white).
  • Due to qer_trans 0.99 the textures on the brush faces are transparent, you can see normal faced brushes, if they themselves have some transparency related shader on them the are not shown.
  • Compiled the map with these texture pads. They show a while square that rotates, i.e. the background is white not transparent. Transparency does not work for these TGA images using my shaders?!

    Image

Note: The Diamond/Square texture (surrounded by white) should actually be the TP pad... no idea what is happening here. It's as if I am not seeing the alpha channel info in PS7, and junk was written into that channel.

Here the shader I am using:
Code:
textures/aegrid/temp_aepads_ya
{
   qer_trans 0.99
   qer_editorimage textures/aegrid/temp_aepads_ya.tga
   surfaceparm nodamage
   surfaceparm nolightmap
   surfaceparm nonsolid
   surfaceparm nomarks
   surfaceparm trans
   polygonoffset
   q3map_backsplash 0 0      // Avoid point source lighting on face
   q3map_surfacelight 400
   q3map_lightsubdivide 128   // Finer subdivision
   {
      clampmap textures/aegrid/temp_aepads_ya.tga
      blendfunc add
      rgbGen Vertex
      tcMod rotate 45
   }
}

I am probably doing several things wrong here. Help would be much appreciated. I also seem to be missing some issues related to PS7. When I use an existing TGA (i.e. an id file) to then copy/paste the image with transparency into that file, the resulting saved TGA file does not seem to show issues... well it works for the fan grates and the animated wall banner, at least.

Thanks.
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PostPosted: 10-04-2009 01:15 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


take a look at andormeda texture set, really nice set, probably one of my favorites.



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fKd
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 12:52 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


oh almost forgot, a crate plz :D
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AEon
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 01:24 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


fKd,
You could probable use the AP... right away... will save it as TGA (they compress much better than 100% JPG anyway, plus the shader, download link soon. On crates... several of the textures I did could be used as crates. If you have an original, you'd like imitated post it. I also noted you could use the door you are presently using in this set... will do that as well later.


About the pads and transparency: (healer heal thyself, by trial an' error)
Code:
// Test case Shader for transparency
textures/aegrid/temp_aepads_tp
{
   qer_trans 0.99
   qer_editorimage textures/aegrid/temp_aepads_tp.tga
   surfaceparm nodamage
   surfaceparm nolightmap
   surfaceparm nonsolid
   surfaceparm nomarks
   surfaceparm trans
   polygonoffset
   q3map_backsplash 0 0         // Avoid point source lighting on face
   q3map_surfacelight 400
   q3map_lightsubdivide 128      // Finer subdivision
//   nopicmip                  // USE? no help it seems
   {
      clampmap textures/aegrid/temp_aepads_tp.tga
//      blendfunc add            // Messes up alpha
//      blendFunc GL_ONE GL_ZERO   // NEW - works but not required
      alphaFunc GE128            // NEW - Central command to make transparency work!
//      depthWrite               // NEW not needed
      rgbGen Vertex
      tcMod rotate 45
   }
}

I used some of the code the fan uses... the central problem seem be transparency (TGA) vs. the blendfunc add command. The latter looks good for textures that use black as a simple 1bit color transparency, and a texture that actually does *not* use black. The blending of e.g. a white pad with the below texture looks cool and works well in AEcantw2 (for those interested in checking the effect):

    Image

The blending would not make much sense for a black texture (pad) anyway (I think). The only command I needed to use was alphaFunc GE128, the blendFunc GL_ONE GL_ZERO is not required, it seems. Shader seems to use the default blendFunc (mode):

    Image

And finally the alpha channel is actually being used, yielding much finer edges. The pads are 256x256, but using a 64²u brush (.25 scale), so they are pretty detailed.

I noted that 100% JPG for these textures not only introduces ugly blur but also does not make any sense at all, because the TGA in the the PK3 compresses far better than the compression done by JPG.

P.S. Pad textures look fine now in 3D view... alas in the editor's texture window there are still some issues with the TP texture... hmmm...
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o'dium
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 02:43 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That looks very rough to my eyes, almost as if your using alpha testing instead of alpha blending...?

Wish I had known, I re-made every single 2D imagine in Quake 3 in high resolution many years ago, you could have used those as a base.




Last edited by o'dium on 10-05-2009 03:38 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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fKd
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 03:15 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


got a download link AEon? pack whatever ya got... all would be very handy, pm it to me if ya want :D
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AEon
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 03:34 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


o'dium wrote:
That looks very rough to my eyes, almost as if your using alpha testing instead of alpha testing...?

?... I posted the shader I am using... I am still not completely certain I am doing this correctly in PS7 or in the shader. I maybe losing quality :(.

Quote:
Wish I had known, I re-made every single 2D imagine in Quake 3 in high resolution many years
ago, you could have used those as a base.

These are a bit abstract... using a 5px brush to give is a certain level of "comic" simplification, thus the rounded style. This is not a complete re-creation from scratch that could feature many more details.

I noted that the ring around the items disappears at a certain distance from the wall. Does this mean one should use thicker rings, to avoid the issue?
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o'dium
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 03:52 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Sorry, had an error in my other post, fixed now...

Looking at your shader (and its been a while for Q3) it looks like it may be alpha testing? Alpha testing isnt what I would use myself here, as it gives a far too pixelated look for what is really just a simple decal.

Now, you have a few choices... One is that you save to an alpha mask which will display over the top of any texture ingame (This is the best idea for visibility reasons I think for you), and the other is that you make the image blend over the surface ingame, which depending on blendmode can produce a number of effects, one of which is an additive blend which may look a bit out of place. looking at your pics, it looks like your going for the normal blend... Now let me think...

Its been a while since doing all this in Q3, but if you make your picture White on a black background, i.e. the icon white, everything else on the texture, black, and use this shader:

Code:
textures/decals/test
{
qer_trans 0.99
qer_editorimage textures/decals/test.tga
surfaceparm trans   
surfaceparm nomarks   
surfaceparm nonsolid
surfaceparm nolightmap
cull none
surfaceparm nomipmaps
{
map textures/decals/test.tga
blendFunc add
}
}


You will blend over the original surface under it. Keep in mind this would mean you MUST use a black background on your pic as this is additive.

Otherwise, replace your "alphaFunc GE128" in your hsader with "GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA GL_SRC_ALPHA" so that it uses an alpha blend, not an alpha test.

(Alpha blending is when it uses the entire greyscale colour range on your mask, alpha test is when it only uses 2, either on, or off, visible, or invisible.)

Now as I say its been a while with Q3, so sorry if anything is wrong :p
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AEon
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 03:52 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Since fKd is really wanting to start using the new textures, here they are:


This file is for Q3W test use only, everything very alpha, but you can use them and they should mostly look fine. Did not have the time to write a .txt file yet. Credits for the original texture set go to Evil Lair. My textures primarily use the style and the colors of his texture set, design is usually id "inspired".

If you can improve the shaders or have suggestions for fixing certain textures, drop me a line.
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o'dium
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 03:56 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


See thing is, you may be able to ignore anything I said, correct or wrong... Because it may just be your textures that are wrong... I can't tell :( To my eyes, it looks like either your using alpha testing, or your using too low res images, or maybe you just drew the images with bad edges, hard to tell :(
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fKd
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 03:59 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


thanks AEon :D
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fKd
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 04:06 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


just a quick heads up, ya .script points to textures/aegrid/***.***

but ya texture dir is called textures/template_ae

just so ya know :D
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AEon
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 04:25 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


o'dium wrote:
See thing is, you may be able to ignore anything I said, correct or wrong... Because it may just be your textures that are wrong... I can't tell :( To my eyes, it looks like either your using alpha testing, or your using too low res images, or maybe you just drew the images with bad edges, hard to tell :(

Was not ignoring your comments (just was detracted releasing the temp set for fKd)... you were right... those pads had not been using proper alpha channels. Your arguments to blendFunc seem to have been reversed, though. Some trial and error yields this:
Code:
textures/aegrid/temp_aepads_tp
{
   qer_trans 0.99
   qer_editorimage textures/aegrid/temp_aepads_tp.tga
   surfaceparm nodamage
   surfaceparm nolightmap
   surfaceparm nonsolid
   surfaceparm nomarks
   surfaceparm trans
   polygonoffset
   q3map_backsplash 0 0         // Avoid point source lighting on face
   q3map_surfacelight 400
   q3map_lightsubdivide 128      // Finer subdivision
   {
      clampmap textures/aegrid/temp_aepads_tp.tga
//      alphaFunc GE128   
      blendFunc GL_SRC_ALPHA GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA
      rgbGen Vertex
      tcMod rotate 45
   }
}

Here the resulting image for the changed TP pad:


It is a bit more "blurry", but that should actually be my alpha smoothed edges, whereas the other items on that image show a pixel exact circle (no edge smoothing). Another good point, the outer ring still is visibly, even at larger distances (turns gray).

So blendFunc GL_SRC_ALPHA GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA really does help.

Textures with black background ("transparency color") for my black pads alas are not an option. And blending the pads into the floor texture is not required either.

I tried using the above command for my grates as well, alas that did not work too well, yet. Will get back on the subject after more tests.

Thanks... this really seems to improve the pad display in-game.
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AEon
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 04:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


fKd wrote:
just a quick heads up, ya .script points to textures/aegrid/***.***
but ya texture dir is called textures/template_ae

:)... that happens when you quickly pack you dev folder stuff. Will fix all that with a more "mature" release.
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fKd
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 04:43 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


great work man, cheers for all this work btw, gonna make this map look far more interesting
with a bit more texture variations, will also make it easier if i choose to use a different set at
find/replace will have more variants, heres a shot with 4 of em in action :)
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AEon
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 04:53 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


:)... funny to see my textures in your map. Be sure to try the AP... should fit right in there.
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AEon
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 11:21 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I started to "trace" ("Durchpausen") some of Speedy's great Andromeda textures. Presently checking with him to get permission to do this. Here the textures I created today:


The combination of template texture with really detailed "glow" in the shaders looks really nice, IMO.


Staring to use more than one orange color, the last two textures are really getting complex. Also testing a "yellow".
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cityy
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 11:34 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Really nice looking textures. Looks like you can use template textures only for your maps soon :P



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AEon
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 01:02 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thanks... I am starting to wonder if I should simply retexture AEcantow2 with these textures. Hmmm... >:D

For fKd I created a door texture (based on id's), the light on the right should also come in handy (Andromeda texture set):


Creating textures is fun :toothy:
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monaster
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PostPosted: 10-05-2009 01:14 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AEon wrote:
"Durchpausen"

;)
The left texture with the glowing light is somehow ... captivating. Combined with that comic-like appearance (cel shading for president!) it made me stare at it for nearly 30 seconds and thinking what might be behind it. Obviously I haven't slept in a while.
As for your
Quote:
Thanks... I am starting to wonder if I should simply retexture AEcantow2 with these textures. Hmmm... >:D

Do it, do it! Even if it's going to be nothing more than a beta: I can't wait to see these textures on a pro map! Been waiting too long for this already...(since...Reise Rei/se perhaps? Can't remember anything since then that provided a design like this)

EDIT: That neon light is just what I thought of, great!



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sock
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PostPosted: 10-06-2009 03:17 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@Aeon, you should create all these textures greyscale and colour them via shaders with the 'rgbGen const ( 0.15 0.15 0.75 )' shader command. Also split the light fixtures down into base background texture and glow section. You could also create surfaces that have multiple layers, like for example the glowing circle objects on the walls, could be grey outer circle detail, grey inner circle detail and additive glow on top. This will allow any designer to pick and choose different colours for each section. Plus by putting the colour into the shader file, designers can create different colour schemes for different areas of the map. Yes, orange is a nice base colour, but not the whole map! ;) (yellow or brown goes equally well with orange)



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AEon
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PostPosted: 10-06-2009 04:12 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@Sock,
that sounds interesting. Though am not completely sure I can emulate the orange shades via gray transparency or recoloring levels. Though evil lair may have been doing just that to create the initially. I had also been thinking of what to do if someone wants different colors.

Some layering is already happening, but probably not enough. I am also wondering how this will effect the game performance. Not sure when and if I will get to this, will get back to you, because I'll probably have some technical issues getting it done, i.e. writing the proper shader to do it.
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PostPosted: 10-06-2009 05:12 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@Aeon, it is certainly possible to do and the current people using the textures will never know. You greyscale your current texture, tweak the brightness/contrast as needed and then push all the textures though simple shaders. A default texture in Q3 is already 2 stage so there is no performance hit.

Sample shader:

Code:
textures/aeon_tpack1/wall_01a
{
   qer_editorimage textures/aeon_tpack1/wall_01a.tga
   {
      map $lightmap
      rgbGen identity
   }
   {
      map textures/aeon_tpack1/wall_01a.tga
      blendFunc GL_DST_COLOR GL_ZERO
      rgbGen const ( 0.8789062 0.500000 0.1328125 )
   }
}


This is taken from this image, the light orange panel (2nd down from the left) gives me (225,128,34) in Photoshop, converted to Q3 it becomes (0.8789062 0.500000 0.1328125) maths (225/256 = 0.8789062)

Then if a designer wants a new version of this panel somewhere else, create a new shader, work out a new const value and bingo! ... new coloured texture.

If you are worried about performance then marked all stages in the shader beyond 3 as detail so the player can switch them off if necessary with a console command.



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AEon
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PostPosted: 10-06-2009 05:45 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I could, obviously not resist a test, and used a new light texture that has 3 different orange tones. The transfer of PS to Q3A colors was clear. Alas simply desaturating (PS) the texture did not work, would have been too good to be true. But I need to find the "correct" colors just once.

Now to get my proper colors (provided they are orange in tone, excluding use of white or red as seen in some of my light textures), here how I think it could work in PS:
  • Use the main orange color as background.
  • Use initially back areas for die different colored regions of the texture.
  • All black detailing stays black.
  • For the main orange, use a 100% transparent "black" texture, for the others change PS opacity, until I have the darker orange tone I am looking for.
  • This should yield my original texture and tones. Now turn off the orange background, and use a white one instead. Save this texture and use it as gray base texture.
  • Apply your shader to the gray texture, setting the main orange color as an (additional stage).

Hopefully that work flow will work. This way I can emulate how the texture *should* look in PS, and how it then *will* look in Q3A.

But what do I do in the editor? I'd be seeing gray textures everywhere? I could of course create a "preview" version of the texture using main orange as background color in the above steps. But that would not help anyone who wants to turn the map green *in* the editor (in-game it would be a simple search/replace in the shaders, as you pointed out). Or am I missing something related to the editor?
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PostPosted: 10-06-2009 05:51 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


jaa haa haaaaaaa looking great, i will be patient and not rush you, but im really digging these latest textures sir.
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AEon
Boink!
Boink!

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4048
PostPosted: 10-06-2009 07:56 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The suggested work flow seem to work. I was able to emulate two of the 3 orange colors using opacity varied black textures projected on the main orange color. The darkest color alas has the wrong saturation (hue/brightness match):

    Image

The texture on the left is the default orange texture I tried to duplicate, in the middle the "re-created" gray texture, on the right the resulting texture that was colorized by Q3A via shader. The more observant artist will note that the dark orange edge on the right texture is slightly more saturated (reddish), but I think one can live with it.

    Image

To prove any of this is actually a step forward, I simply changed rgbGen const ( 0.88 0.5 0.137 ) (orange) to rgbGen const ( 0.137 0.879 0.253 ) (only changed the hue of the orange to green). Kinda weird, but works :)

Could e.g. Sock or Obsidian take a look at the shader I am using, I simply commented out the rgbGen identity, but I am not sure this is the "right" thing to do:
Code:
textures/aegrid/temp_aelonglight_gray_orange
{
   qer_editorimage textures/aegrid/temp_aelonglight_gray.tga
   q3map_lightimage textures/aegrid/temp_aelonglight_orange_blend.tga
   surfaceparm nodlight
   surfaceparm nomarks
   q3map_surfacelight 2000
   {
      map textures/aegrid/temp_aelonglight_gray.tga
//      rgbGen const ( 0.88 0.5 0.137 )    // Default template orange
      rgbGen const ( 0.137 0.879 0.253 )    // Default template hue green
//      rgbGen identity
   }
   {
      map $lightmap
      blendfunc filter
      tcGen lightmap
   }
   {
      map textures/aegrid/temp_aelonglight_orange_blend.tga
      blendfunc gl_one_minus_dst_color gl_one
      rgbGen wave sin 0.9 0.09 0 1
   }
}

Well it seems to work at least. It seems the idea Sock proposed could really be worth it. Then I could include several .shader files with 2-3 other colors :),

Not sure how to add not orange colored areas i.e. white or yellow. Probably layer another "gray" template over everything, and color it?
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sock
The Illuminated
The Illuminated

Joined: 08 Sep 2000
Posts: 1073
PostPosted: 10-06-2009 08:05 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@Aeon, If my arms were long enough they would reach out across the internet and strangle you! :p


Zip : http://www.simonoc.com/files/misc/aeon_texp1.zip

sock wrote:
You greyscale your current texture, tweak the brightness/contrast as needed and then push all the textures though simple shaders.


I simply desaturated the image, boasted the brightness by 125% and viola done. Zip file contains before and after images, map files, bsp and sample shader file.



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obsidian
I'm the dude!
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 10533
PostPosted: 10-06-2009 08:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I think what AEon means to say is, "but that would be too easy!"



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