[FINAL] p61ctf1 "Opposing Force"

[PaN61]

Opposing Force (FINAL):

A Large CTF map for 4vs4, 5vs5 and possibly even 6vs6 games.


Screenshots:

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[lvlshot]http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4526/p61ctf122.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/728/p61ctf123.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/152/p61ctf124.jpg[/lvlshot]

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FINAL (1.0) VERSION OF OPPOSING FORCE RELEASED.

Feedback is more than welcome.


Download the Final (1.0) version of Opposing Force (~6.2MB):

.PK3: Opposing Force.pk3
.ZIP: Opposing Force.zip

(P.S. This thread layout has been influenced by sst13's thread layout for beta maps).

[cityy]

You might want to add some cover (pillars, walls or simular) to allow some dodging. Also you should abuse the freedom you have with space maps a bit more. Try thinking of clever jumppads below the platforms, curved ones, all that fancy stuff that makes space map fun to play.

[Eraser]

It definitely looks like something that's taking shape quite nicely. However, there's certainly room for improvement.

You might want to break up those red/blue flag platform floors a bit. They're very monotonous now, like big slabs of floor that are textured the same. It exaggerates the effect of texture tiling, which is something you do want to avoid.

Break up the floor brushes and put some trims between different sections or something like that. Maybe you can open up bits of the floor where you put some grating or glass to cover it up again and show some pipes or tubes and wires down there. It makes it look a bit more detailed and playful.

I always like the big heavy toothed connection look, like this:


Where the white bits are the two sections of the floor and the black is a small gap in-between (just 4 or 8 units or so). You could make the gap all the way through the floor so it's see-through or just indent it. Add a nice trim along the "tooths" and you've got a look where the floor looks like a really heavy built thing that interconnects like that. I'm just throwing ideas out there now

Also, the launchpad ramps look a bit thin. Check out how they look in q3dm17. They look big and beefy and not like something that would break off if you stamp on it.

[themuffinman]

The immediate thought that came to mind was 'another dm17 rip-off'. It obviously isn't but it does borrow a little too heavily from it... and in today's day and age, and after seeing 5 billion dm17 remakes, reduxes and regurgitations anything related to dm17 tends to leave a bitter taste in one's mouth. Try to be a bit more creative with regards to that. Some hi-res custom textures wouldn't hurt either.

It is quite neatly put together and looks like it could be quite fun. Going with cityy's comments it definitely needs more visual blocking as it seems a bit too open in places, but it was a good move putting a longer respawn delay on the railgun spawn and knocking the pickup ammo down to 5.

The whole map really feels oversized to me, and I think that's party to do with the large upper platforms at each base. Smaller platforms there would make it more of a challenge for attackers taking the upper accel pads and rightfully so since they may be rewarded with YA and an RL or rocket ammo.

I'm not sure how complete the map is aesthetically but I think there's some work to be done there, although I'd first focus on getting the gameplay spot-on before improving looks.

The way you can get around the perimeter of the map with accel pads kind of reminded me of Impossible Dinosaur Battlefield, which was quite entertaining on LAN back in the day. It's good to see you getting into the mapping scene. Keep it up!

[Eraser]

it was a good move putting a longer respawn delay on the railgun spawn and knocking the pickup ammo down to 5.

The downside of using lower ammo count at spawn is that if a player drops the railgun, the player to pick that up will still receive the full amount of ammo for the weapon.

[PaN61]

Thanks for the input/feedback everyone. I have taken in all your feedback and tried to think of ways I can improve the map based on what you have said. I have some ideas on how to do it and on the others, I'm still thinking if it will work in this map or not.

Without any further ado, lets get started.

You might want to add some cover (pillars, walls or simular) to allow some dodging. Also you should abuse the freedom you have with space maps a bit more.

I am currently thinking of adding small shielding areas on most of the platforms ledges to allow players some cover. It will rise in height to allow players to hide behind it. It won't be like a skyscraper shielding area.

Try thinking of clever jumppads below the platforms, curved ones, all that fancy stuff that makes space map fun to play.

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. I'm interpreting it as in make the jumpad destination area of the platform a curve instead of a diagonal brush. But, I don't know about this yet, as I currently have made it just to diagonal and straight area brushes.

You might want to break up those red/blue flag platform floors a bit. They're very monotonous now, like big slabs of floor that are textured the same. It exaggerates the effect of texture tiling, which is something you do want to avoid.

Break up the floor brushes and put some trims between different sections or something like that. Maybe you can open up bits of the floor where you put some grating or glass to cover it up again and show some pipes or tubes and wires down there.

I already have an idea about how I can exploit this "breaking up the floor" advice. Although I'm not too sure if I can break up all the platform floors. I'm thinking that small stairs could be a nice addition in some places but I don't know if this stair idea will work.

Also, the launchpad ramps look a bit thin. Check out how they look in q3dm17. They look big and beefy and not like something that would break off if you stamp on it.

I am already on to this. I have some sort of finalized idea on how I can go about this. It's basically the same concept as q3dm17 in having some supports from the launchpad to the platform.

The immediate thought that came to mind was 'another dm17 rip-off'. It obviously isn't but it does borrow a little too heavily from it... and in today's day and age, and after seeing 5 billion dm17 remakes, reduxes and regurgitations anything related to dm17 tends to leave a bitter taste in one's mouth. Try to be a bit more creative with regards to that.

I tried to make it lean away from q3dm17 as much as possible in terms of layout, brushes and item placement. Some of the areas (Such as the two side platforms to both bases) do look like q3dm17, but I'm trying to lean it away from that map.

Some hi-res custom textures wouldn't hurt either.

I was afraid someone was going to say this. I'm thinking now of putting some custom textures in from the other ideas that have now come into this equation. There probably won't be a lot of custom textures but I will try my best to incorporate this within the map.

The whole map really feels oversized to me, and I think that's party to do with the large upper platforms at each base. Smaller platforms there would make it more of a challenge for attackers taking the upper accel pads and rightfully so since they may be rewarded with YA and an RL or rocket ammo.

I also have an idea on how I can fix this. It interlaces with Eraser's "breaking up the floor" method quite well so this should be quite easy to fix. It might also bring small amounts of aesthetic elements to the map.



I possibly won't be able to get all this done in such a small time frame as I'm focusing on school at this time. It will be done sooner or later as I will make sure to work on the map here and there while focusing on school, hence making the progress slow (Better than making no progress at all in my opinion).

Again, thanks for all your feedback and I will try to produce a second beta as soon as possible. It will contain improvements based off your valuable feedback that all of you have given. If you have any queries or feedback, please don't hesitate to post a reply.


Current "To Do List":

• Adding small cover areas on most/all of the platforms to give the player cover from projectiles.
  Breaking up the floor to reduce/remove the "monotonous" feel of the map.
  Add supports for all launchpads (Support from the launchpad to the platform).
  Adding some custom textures.*
  Scaling down the side platforms of both bases.
  Fine tune the lighting.

* This isn't final. It may or may not be included in the next versions of beta.

[Eraser]

Curious to see what you're coming up with. Keep at it

[roughrider]

I haven't grabbed yet, will wait for your next beta to grab it.

[PaN61]

If anyone has been anxious for a progress report on my 2nd beta, you're in luck. I have planned that the 2nd beta would be released during the Easter holidays (In about 2-4 weeks from now). I have estimated that I have finished about 50 - 60% of this 2nd beta.

So if everything goes according to plan, 2nd beta should be released during the Easter holidays, although some factors may affect this (Such as school related drawbacks). Hope to hear from everybody then.

Happy Fraggin'.

[Eraser]

Take your time. We'll wait

[PaN61]

Greetings everyone. Beta 2 has finally been released after the long departure of beta 1 . I've updated this threads heading topic with the new changes for beta 2, which includes the new download links. Feedback is welcome so don't be afraid to test the map out.

Happy Fraggin'.

[CZghost]

Great stuff... I've played for a minute and realy enjoyed gameplay... Also, this map would be great in Team Arena challenge (you can make remake with TA weapons and runes, with full support of TA gametypes)...

So in one word: GREAT!

[PaN61]

Great stuff... I've played for a minute and realy enjoyed gameplay... Also, this map would be great in Team Arena challenge (you can make remake with TA weapons and runes, with full support of TA gametypes)...

So in one word: GREAT!

Thank you, I had a feeling people were going to enjoy it since it has come a long way from the 1st beta. I would have thought about making it a Team Arena challenge map but unfortunately, I don't have the Team Arena mod so I wouldn't be able to turn it into a Team Arena map. Apologize for that.

[CZghost]

Thank you, I had a feeling people were going to enjoy it since it has come a long way from the 1st beta. I would have thought about making it a Team Arena challenge map but unfortunately, I don't have the Team Arena mod so I wouldn't be able to turn it into a Team Arena map. Apologize for that.

Sure, It's pity, because Team Arena is mod realy ideal for that map...
After going final, would I have permission for TA version make? I'll show you as author of original map by copyright law... It would be realy nice to play this level in revolution mod of Quake 3... Also, this will show, how many skillz I realy have (I don't know still)...

[Jimzombie]

Great map dude I really enjoyed the gameplay and the bots are quite smart in it to, I also love the hidey spot

[PaN61]

Sure, It's pity, because Team Arena is mod realy ideal for that map...
After going final, would I have permission for TA version make? I'll show you as author of original map by copyright law... It would be realy nice to play this level in revolution mod of Quake 3... Also, this will show, how many skillz I realy have (I don't know still)...

I would be fine with you turning it into a Team Arena map, if it abides by the copyright law stated in the p61ctf1.txt file. Oh and, was supposed to say "I apologize for that", instead of "Apologize for that".

Great map dude I really enjoyed the gameplay and the bots are quite smart in it to, I also love the hidey spot

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it .

[CZghost]

@PaN61 Thank you... I would have one question about source map file (decompiling means a lot of adjusting - hard obstacle)?

[PaN61]

@PaN61 Thank you... I would have one question about source map file (decompiling means a lot of adjusting - hard obstacle)?

Ahhah, now that's where I planned in advance. I included my source map file of Opposing Force in the .pk3 if anyone wanted to convert the map into a mod or view it as a guide to how I made certain things. So no de-compiling needed since the source map file is included in the .pk3.

I also stated in the .txt file that the map source is included within the .pk3 (Just in-case you've missed that).

[CZghost]

@PaN61 Right... Thank you again, I'm gonna make some piece changes for optimise TA gameplay... Result will be sent through fileserver (filefront /gamefront exact/ or mediafire)

[themuffinman]

TBH I never really liked the flag area - 2 plain old platforms connected by a ramp - it just lacks creativity and substance imo, and is very linear. I'd suggest rethinking them - make it more vertical, make it more interesting and since the flag area is the central element to a base it should look big and important. Unless you're approaching the flag area from an area with highly important items, you should have at least 2 ways to get to the flag from the path you've taken.

The alterations are good - more height variation in spots, more barriers to get cover from, etc., it looks promising.

Still not sure whether you're looking for feedback on aesthetics or not, but those floors should be broken up some - it's repetitive and boring. You should compare the texturing between Longest Yard in Q3 to the reworked version in QL - QL's style looks far more appealing. A decent skybox also makes a big difference. Thin platforms, launch-pads and railings rarely work well unless you're going for a clean, sleek, modern look, but even then it's hard to pull off. You shouldn't be hesitant to thicken them up and make them look more rugged.

[PaN61]

TBH I never really liked the flag area - 2 plain old platforms connected by a ramp - it just lacks creativity and substance imo, and is very linear. I'd suggest rethinking them - make it more vertical, make it more interesting and since the flag area is the central element to a base it should look big and important. Unless you're approaching the flag area from an area with highly important items, you should have at least 2 ways to get to the flag from the path you've taken.

I'm not too sure if I can improve the flag platforms in terms of vertical gameplay, I would have to change most of the layout of the map by doing that. Although, I will see what I can do.

The alterations are good - more height variation in spots, more barriers to get cover from, etc., it looks promising.

Well, I'm glad that I'm improving the map little bit by little.

Still not sure whether you're looking for feedback on aesthetics or not, but those floors should be broken up some - it's repetitive and boring. You should compare the texturing between Longest Yard in Q3 to the reworked version in QL - QL's style looks far more appealing. A decent skybox also makes a big difference. Thin platforms, launch-pads and railings rarely work well unless you're going for a clean, sleek, modern look, but even then it's hard to pull off. You shouldn't be hesitant to thicken them up and make them look more rugged.

I had a look at QL's version of The Longest Yard compared to VQ3. I will see what I can do with breaking the floor up. I may be able to break up the floor a bit more without using other textures, but I will see how it will look with other textures as well. I do have the choice out of two skyboxes that I was going to use in my 2nd quake 3 map, but I was planning to leave this one like it is now. I'm not sure if I will be placing a custom skybox in the map at this stage. With the launchpads, I may be able to make the supports a bit more thicker than they are now.

[CZghost]

Can you post me please your compile options PaN61? It will be great to use original compile options for the TA rework. It will look as the original, but with some layout changes, you'll see soon... I must now compile the map and see, how it looks in game. If all will be OK, I'll capture three demos, which will be used for video creation. After that, I'll change the team marks from noreplace stage to normal stage (it will be replaced with icon of selected team). Thank you

[PaN61]

My compiling options are as follows:

BSP Stage: -meta -v
VIS Stage: -vis -saveprt -v
Light Stage: -light -dark -dirty -patchshadows -samples 3 -bounce 3 -gamma 1.4 -v

You can tweak these settings to suit your remake.
Also, if you don't have a good compile machine (Like me), due to the massive amount of portals, you may need to add the -fast parameter to the VIS Stage to speed up the compile.

[CZghost]

Thank you, now compiling...

[CZghost]

Compiling without the -fast option. I wanna not fullbright map. I wanna regularly lighted map, like you.