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Topic Starter Topic: Re: *nerd rage

Glayven?
Glayven?
Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 13025
PostPosted: 04-25-2011 07:21 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Foo wrote:
See this is a common fallacy. The ETQW player base is now reduced to the point where it's only the dedicated types still playing. There's very low influx of new players and virtually no casuals.


I think you're the one stating the fallacy. Where do you get this "only dedicated types play it" information from?

I played several matches this weekend with "Recruit" ranks who had no idea how to play the game. In fact, of the six different servers I've played over the last 4 days at least one-third of them were newbies (in rank and ability). You might find more no0bs in BF than you do in ETQW, but it'd be dumb to assume there are no new players in ETQW.




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I'm the dude!
I'm the dude!
Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 04-25-2011 07:36 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Team HOMO pwnd!



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Karot!
Karot!
Joined: 31 Jul 2001
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PostPosted: 04-25-2011 10:57 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Memphis wrote:
Aye. The main problem BC2 has when it comes to full-scale team strategy is everyone, or at least every squad, is off doing their own thing, often too into that to care or even notice what everyone else is doing. In QW you had 16 players all able to chat and divide themselves up into squads to chat seperate to that aswell, so you actually had people willing and ready to drop an orbital strike to cover objective arming, or to clear ahead for or follow a flag carrier, or to alert when both the team's or the enemy's turrets/radars were up/down and so on. Objective info was listed on the HUD too so if you were a rocket-packing engineer objectives for your class, such as enemy turrets, vehicles and radars all came up on screen, giving a clear job to do.


That sounds pretty cool, shame i missed this gem at the time... :tear:

BF2 had the same squad system as BC2 roughly, except that voicecom within a squad was possible and the squad leader was also in voicecom with the commander. Not ideal perhaps, but it mostly worked... makes you wonder how they'll do this in 2, seeing as the whole voicecom thing in BC2 never functioned (the bastards). Gief a vid explaining how all that will work rather than a vid explaining the particulars of the single player mode plz kthx.

The hierarchical commander system in BF2 was interesting in a way; half of the team would listen and follow your orders if they made enough sense to em and you provided them with useful stuff and the other half of the team would tear about the place blowing up shit, paying you and the others no mind at all. Depending on the commander and the team you'd see interesting stuff or typical battlefield carnage, but mostly the latter.

Memphis wrote:
It's because of playing like that that often in BC2 when an objective is flashing away and defenders near it just stay sat in their safe spot taking more potshots for kills pisses me off. I may suck at killing folks before they kill me more than half the time, my K/D ratio is barely 0.5, but i've won more games for my team with those deaths arming and disarming mcomms than some twat with 20/4 sat on a roof way back in our base the whole time. Chipping away at an infinite number of defenders is the most pointless act they could possibly be doing.


Aye the most you'll see is tactics rather than strategy... Noone ever coordinates an attack like; squad alpha through delta go for the hill and get their attention, squad foxtrot will jog down the beach and sneak around the tower while the snipers cover them... ok go team, woo! But it's exactly what might end up happening.

It's all pretty much about being aware of your surroundings and looking at the little radar thingie and deciding in a split second what would get the best outcome for your team - are they pinned down? Can you help em? Should you run to the left if everyone's going right? But you never think ahead more than 30 seconds really, or at least i don't :)

Communication is a big issue i think, if there's more of it combined with bigger less chokepointy maps, you start seeing more thought out stuff :up:



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I'm the dude!
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Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 04-25-2011 02:30 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


LOL... good times!

Image



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Glayven?
Glayven?
Joined: 23 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 04-25-2011 10:42 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


lol...obviously I wasn't doing any flying in that match.




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Timed Out
Timed Out
Joined: 02 Aug 2000
Posts: 38067
PostPosted: 04-25-2011 11:51 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ryoki wrote:
the whole voicecom thing in BC2 never functioned (the bastards)


Yeah that was a huge fucking joke and I think if I hadn't started out playing with a team of friends, on mumble for voice, it wouldn't have been 1/10th as enjoyable.

They really dropped the ball on that. I guess the only positive side to it is you never got the HURRDURR HOW DO I BACKFLIP **BEEELLLLLCCCHHH** 12-year olds on chat.




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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
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PostPosted: 04-25-2011 11:59 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


So Rage is like Enemy Territory Quake Wars?




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Timed Out
Timed Out
Joined: 02 Aug 2000
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PostPosted: 04-26-2011 12:13 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


GONNAFISTYA wrote:
Foo wrote:
See this is a common fallacy. The ETQW player base is now reduced to the point where it's only the dedicated types still playing. There's very low influx of new players and virtually no casuals.


I think you're the one stating the fallacy. Where do you get this "only dedicated types play it" information from?

I played several matches this weekend with "Recruit" ranks who had no idea how to play the game. In fact, of the six different servers I've played over the last 4 days at least one-third of them were newbies (in rank and ability). You might find more no0bs in BF than you do in ETQW, but it'd be dumb to assume there are no new players in ETQW.


I'm sorry if I oversimplified this and you're struggling with the concept.

I'll be sure to string subsequent posts out to twice the length to cover caveats and disclaimers so that you won't need to post a pointless rebuttal.




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Etile
Etile
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 34905
PostPosted: 04-26-2011 02:15 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


whoa, text wall from the welshie




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Glayven?
Glayven?
Joined: 23 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 04-26-2011 02:44 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Oh hey Foo's being a cunt again.




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foolproof
foolproof
Joined: 11 Jan 2001
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PostPosted: 04-26-2011 10:33 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Think rage is gonna be sweet.




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Digital Nausea
Digital Nausea
Joined: 10 Feb 2001
Posts: 24714
PostPosted: 04-26-2011 10:52 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Is that a statement or command? If it's the latter, I refuse...




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foolproof
foolproof
Joined: 11 Jan 2001
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PostPosted: 04-26-2011 11:00 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Neither a statement nor a command (command? how would that work?)
"think" is an assumption/wish I'm confident will be fulfilled.




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Digital Nausea
Digital Nausea
Joined: 10 Feb 2001
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PostPosted: 04-26-2011 11:03 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Think happy thoughts.

That's a command.




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opa!
opa!
Joined: 02 Mar 2000
Posts: 14658
PostPosted: 04-26-2011 11:04 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


xer0s wrote:
Is that a statement or command? If it's the latter, I refuse...

you can't refuse commands ... what are you , sum kind'a moron?




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Digital Nausea
Digital Nausea
Joined: 10 Feb 2001
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PostPosted: 04-26-2011 11:30 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I can't refuse to obey a command? Oh...




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foolproof
foolproof
Joined: 11 Jan 2001
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PostPosted: 04-26-2011 11:32 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Plan B wrote:
Think rage is gonna be sweet.




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Digital Nausea
Digital Nausea
Joined: 10 Feb 2001
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PostPosted: 04-26-2011 11:35 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


No! Damnit, I refuse to think it will be sweet...




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I'm the dude!
I'm the dude!
Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498
PostPosted: 04-26-2011 03:33 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


xer0s wrote:
No! Damnit, I refuse to think...


Fixed. (Kept the "..." because it wouldn't be xer0s if it wasn't retarded)



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The Afflicted
The Afflicted
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: 04-26-2011 04:23 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Plan B wrote:
Neither a statement nor a command (command? how would that work?)
"think" is an assumption/wish I'm confident will be fulfilled.


"think" can be used as an imperative verb.




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Immortal
Immortal
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 2477
PostPosted: 04-26-2011 06:04 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


this thread is funny as hell. so much "rage" over nothing more than speculation... heh




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I'm the dude!
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Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 05-05-2011 12:08 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


New gameplay video. AI looks pretty nifty.



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Linux Version
Linux Version
Joined: 04 Dec 1999
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PostPosted: 05-05-2011 12:13 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
New gameplay video. AI looks pretty nifty.



Looks pretty solid.




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opa!
opa!
Joined: 02 Mar 2000
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PostPosted: 05-07-2011 12:54 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


lol@the dude kicking the turret




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puzl
puzl
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PostPosted: 05-07-2011 01:50 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I will say that the animation in RAGE looks stunning.




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opa!
opa!
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PostPosted: 05-07-2011 03:57 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


yeah the death sequences are very nice. I liked the part where the guy fell down after shot and lifted up his upper boddy while still down only to be finished off.

and the wounded guy limping his way towards the retreat point :up:

in one of the interviews, they did mention that they put alot of effort into making the character animation "organic"




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Digital Nausea
Digital Nausea
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PostPosted: 05-07-2011 05:15 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Tsakali wrote:
yeah the death sequences are very nice. I liked the part where the guy fell down after shot and lifted up his upper boddy while still down only to be finished off.

and the wounded guy limping his way towards the retreat point :up:

in one of the interviews, they did mention that they put alot of effort into making the character animation "organic"


Yeah it's cool, but...if you see the same type of animation more than a few times, it begins to be not as realistic. It's almost a catch 22. You want those types of realistic animations, but it's hard to have a unique animation for each individual enemy, especially with a game such as Rage where we might see hundreds or even thousands of different enemies. You start to see the same guys dying the same way over and over, it starts to numb the experience...




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Timed Out
Timed Out
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PostPosted: 05-07-2011 05:37 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That vid looked pretty fun.




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opa!
opa!
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PostPosted: 05-07-2011 05:40 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


xer0s, that is an issue. However they did mention that the animations were somewhat connected to each character in a variable based automated way, and not just some basic animation they plug in, at time of death. If that means what i think it means is that even a heavier enemy (for example) could go through the same animation but slightly altered to make it look...well, heavier. If they can pull that type of integration off, it might not be a bad thing.




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I'm the dude!
I'm the dude!
Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 05-07-2011 06:26 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


There are different ways of executing animation, dynamic and static. Quake III for instance is an example of static animation, the death sequences are predetermined, if health = 0, run frames 30-38. No physics involved and all rigid body animations. Rage looks to be much more complex and it looks like a combination between AI determining the condition of the enemy (type of injury) and animation types for each condition, along with physics and soft body animations. Together, there's a much more dynamic range of animation types available depending on all these factors.

BTW, not sure if you guys saw the spider bot melee the guy behind the crate, it looks like it speared and gibbed the guy with much carnage. I smiled.



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Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
Joined: 24 Nov 2000
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PostPosted: 05-07-2011 10:57 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


does rage use the Natural Motion engine?




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Glayven?
Glayven?
Joined: 23 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 05-07-2011 11:03 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


xer0s wrote:
Yeah it's cool, but...if you see the same type of animation more than a few times, it begins to be not as realistic. It's almost a catch 22. You want those types of realistic animations, but it's hard to have a unique animation for each individual enemy, especially with a game such as Rage where we might see hundreds or even thousands of different enemies. You start to see the same guys dying the same way over and over, it starts to numb the experience...


I see that the naysayers are again insisting on nitpicking. How many animations should the animation department create? I'm not sure if you're aware of this (probably not) but games do have a limited budget and schedule.

In most AAA games over the last 8 years there are almost no AI enemies "dying the same way over and over" due to ragdoll physics.




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Etile
Etile
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: 05-08-2011 02:54 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


yeah, but we want AI to smash big glass coffee tables when they die, god damn it!




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god xor reason
god xor reason
Joined: 08 Dec 1999
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PostPosted: 05-19-2011 03:39 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote





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I'm the dude!
I'm the dude!
Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498
PostPosted: 05-19-2011 05:22 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


:olo: WTF?



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