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Topic Starter Topic: Listen to this: David Reeves - NGC 1961
DTS
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PostPosted: 01-13-2008 05:34 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Listen to this:
David Reeves - NGC 1961

I have provided two different file formats, the first (.ape) is lossless compression (there's a plugin for Winamp). I recorded it from a 128kb/s MP3 stream that's why I chose 320kb/s for the MP3 file, cause compressing from a compressed source is further loss.

David Reeves - NGC 1961.ape:
http://uploaded.to/?id=dm8x9u

David Reeves - NGC 1961.mp3:
http://uploaded.to/?id=2700un

What do you think of the speech the guy gives at the beginning of this tune? Does it change your views? Does it make you think? Discuss.

250 million light years; beings evolved technologically over 250 million years could do a lot; maybe even God-like things. How we see that galaxy is how it was 250 million years ago. Think how advanced beings there could be by now. That's what I make of it.
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[xeno]Julios
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PostPosted: 01-13-2008 10:03 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


not sure what you mean DTS - the dude's just talking about how far this galaxy is from us...

The universe is about 14-15 billion light years across, so it'd take that long for light to travel from one end to the other.

Are you trying to say that it's conceivable that given 15 billion years, it's conceivable for beings to evolve to a point where they have god like powers?

Fair enough, but I don't see why you needed to post this song (which is kinda cool in its own way) to make your point. The song only talks about intergalactic scales, whereas your point could be made more compelling by talking about the scale of the universe as a whole.
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DTS
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PostPosted: 01-13-2008 10:22 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I wasn't trying to make a point I just wanted to know what you thought of what the guy in the tune said. I put what I thought of it to start it off.

What you said is; because my "point" could be made more compelling than the tune does, you don't see why I needed to post the tune?

Well like I said, I needed to post the tune to get your opinions on what was said at the beginning of it.
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DTS
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PostPosted: 01-13-2008 10:30 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


[xeno]Julios wrote:
Are you trying to say that it's conceivable that given 15 billion years, it's conceivable for beings to evolve to a point where they have god like powers?


(Anyway, I see we could discuss a bit here.)

Given any vast amount of time it's concievable for beings to evolve to a point where they have god-like powers.
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Pext
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PostPosted: 01-13-2008 10:56 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


what are godlike powers? you can't be better than yourself...
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tnf
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PostPosted: 01-13-2008 11:00 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


DTS wrote:
Listen to this:
David Reeves - NGC 1961

I have provided two different file formats, the first (.ape) is lossless compression (there's a plugin for Winamp). I recorded it from a 128kb/s MP3 stream that's why I chose 320kb/s for the MP3 file, cause compressing from a compressed source is further loss.

David Reeves - NGC 1961.ape:
http://uploaded.to/?id=dm8x9u

David Reeves - NGC 1961.mp3:
http://uploaded.to/?id=2700un

What do you think of the speech the guy gives at the beginning of this tune? Does it change your views? Does it make you think? Discuss.

250 million light years; beings evolved technologically over 250 million years could do a lot; maybe even God-like things. How we see that galaxy is how it was 250 million years ago. Think how advanced beings there could be by now. That's what I make of it.


We see all galaxies as they were millions or more light years ago.

And if they're looking at us, its the same. Why is this news?
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DTS
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PostPosted: 01-13-2008 12:17 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Pext wrote:
what are godlike powers? you can't be better than yourself...


What's that supposed to mean?

tnf wrote:
We see all galaxies as they were millions or more light years ago.

And if they're looking at us, its the same. Why is this news?


It's not news, it's just the way he put it; the size of our galaxy; the size of another one, much bigger; the vast distance it is and how long it takes for the light to get here; he spelled out "how big space is".

There is some that I hadn't heard before, I suppose; that it's hundreds of millions of light years; I knew the distances were measured in light years and what light years were; but didn't know how many light years they were. Just that they were measured in light years showed that the distances were vast; I didn't usually think about the numbers.

I think it's the way he said it; "...it takes 250 million years..."

Hundreds of millions of light years; the point is, that galaxy has been there in that state, much bigger than ours, for 250 million years; think what could have happened since then. If that galaxy's still there, assuming it's still there, that's 250 million years of evolution. Technology included of course.

To be fair to the guy, the bit he was getting onto (as he says at the end of the audio clip) was the "3rd heaven", some place greater than space. That could be another dimension. That isn't what I was getting at, though. I was just interested in the other galaxy and the timeframe involved.
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Grudge
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PostPosted: 01-13-2008 01:33 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


ffs
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DTS
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PostPosted: 01-13-2008 01:35 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Grudge wrote:
ffs


:olo:
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Grudge
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PostPosted: 01-13-2008 01:37 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Just so that you know - Earth is around 4.5 billion years old.

That's 4.5 billion years of evolution. Technology included of course.
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Grudge
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PostPosted: 01-13-2008 01:49 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


While we're at it, I'll tell you something I find quite fascinating.

We are now actually most likely at the first possible point in the history of the universe for intelligent life to be able to evolve. All elements heavier than iron need to be produced by a super nova, and since these elements are required for life as we know it, and since at least one generation of stars needed to live out their lives before the formation of our star system, we might be the first ones.

And since it only takes a couple of million years to let von Neumann probes visit and set up communications in every star system in this galaxy, it's even quite likely that we are the first ones, at least in this galaxy.
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menkent
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PostPosted: 01-13-2008 02:37 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


let's get high and post threads about how big space is :up:
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Big Kahuna Burger
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PostPosted: 01-13-2008 02:41 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


also, time may not exist http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/in-no-time
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DTS
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PostPosted: 01-13-2008 03:28 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Grudge wrote:
Just so that you know - Earth is around 4.5 billion years old.

That's 4.5 billion years of evolution. Technology included of course.


I see. Thanks.

Grudge wrote:
While we're at it, I'll tell you something I find quite fascinating.

We are now actually most likely at the first possible point in the history of the universe for intelligent life to be able to evolve. All elements heavier than iron need to be produced by a super nova, and since these elements are required for life as we know it, and since at least one generation of stars needed to live out their lives before the formation of our star system, we might be the first ones.

And since it only takes a couple of million years to let von Neumann probes visit and set up communications in every star system in this galaxy, it's even quite likely that we are the first ones, at least in this galaxy.


That's interesting. Thanks for posting that.

Big Kahuna Burger wrote:
also, time may not exist http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/in-no-time


Interesting article :up: Thanks for posting that.
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R00k
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PostPosted: 01-13-2008 03:57 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


While we're on the subject, I have a couple of stupid questions of my own...

1) We're compelled to believe the universe started with a big bang, because the universe is expanding and because we have seen background radiation (I think that's right - gamma rays? maybe it was radio waves... I can't recall for sure O_o ), which is just what we would have expected to find from a big bang. If this is the extent of the evidence we have for the origins of the universe, would it not be possible that the center of the universe is just a wormhole to another dimension, where matter is constantly traveling through? Or another theory, in the parlance of string theory: since gravitons are able to theoretically cross between dimensions, could the center of the universe not also be a nexus of gravitons between several different dimensions, with enough combined together to create the 'singularity' and big bang to begin with?

2) If everything we know breaks down as we near the instant before the big bang, then how do we explain the energy that was required to explode it? Is it now widely accepted that strings still existed, or quantum particles? Or do we simply not have an answer for that?
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tnf
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PostPosted: 01-13-2008 07:20 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Background isn't gamma, that's way too high energy. It's microwave (hence the term CMB)....its been stretching out as space expands and is now low energy and ubiquitious (but not necessarily uniform).

As for the rest of that....ummm....wormholes are a bit too theoretical at the moment i'd say to put together an alternate theory to the bb that encompasses them on the forums. email kip thorne (seriously - he's got so much energy he'd probably get back to you..)
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plained
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PostPosted: 01-13-2008 07:52 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


iu'm thinking you know its all like a big thing ey



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Grandpa Stu
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PostPosted: 01-13-2008 11:57 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


menkent wrote:
let's get high and post threads about how big space is :up:


it's this many... ---V <----
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Ryoki
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PostPosted: 01-14-2008 01:26 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I've been sent to outerspace to find another race.



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ek
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PostPosted: 01-14-2008 01:51 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


the answer is 42 or 43.
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MKJ
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PostPosted: 01-14-2008 02:17 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ryoki wrote:
I've been sent to outerspace to find another race.


now im here all alone


terrible :up:
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Ryoki
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PostPosted: 01-14-2008 02:50 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'll take your brain to another dimension.



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MKJ
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PostPosted: 01-14-2008 05:28 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I got the poison.
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Massive Quasars
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PostPosted: 01-14-2008 05:43 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


get a room
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MKJ
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PostPosted: 01-14-2008 06:45 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


"I'll pay for it, if you'll go away" ?
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Grudge
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PostPosted: 01-14-2008 07:20 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


If the universe indeed has an open topology, (intelligent) life may be what's needed to close it (to avoid the heat death).
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Massive Quasars
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PostPosted: 01-14-2008 03:23 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Grudge wrote:
If the universe indeed has an open topology, (intelligent) life may be what's needed to close it (to avoid the heat death).


Sure, but who can model that far ahead reliably?

The best approach we seem to have (implicit goals factored in) is to optimize towards indefinite lifespans and greater intelligence. The means to that end is open to argument.

Quote:
While we're at it, I'll tell you something I find quite fascinating.

We are now actually most likely at the first possible point in the history of the universe for intelligent life to be able to evolve. All elements heavier than iron need to be produced by a super nova, and since these elements are required for life as we know it, and since at least one generation of stars needed to live out their lives before the formation of our star system, we might be the first ones.

And since it only takes a couple of million years to let von Neumann probes visit and set up communications in every star system in this galaxy, it's even quite likely that we are the first ones, at least in this galaxy.


I'm afraid such questions require a precise definition of intelligence and even then.... You've heard me say this before, but it appears to hold here.

Indeterminacies abound.
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Massive Quasars
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PostPosted: 01-14-2008 10:03 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Bit of an aside here.

The end of the second episode of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles had a teaser for the third episode in which Johnnie boy discussed the technological Singularity.

Was there a tie in to the singularity in the original Terminator story, or are they taking a page out of Kurzweil and Yudkowsky's book?
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scared?
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PostPosted: 01-14-2008 10:32 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Grudge wrote:
While we're at it, I'll tell you something I find quite fascinating.

We are now actually most likely at the first possible point in the history of the universe for intelligent life to be able to evolve. All elements heavier than iron need to be produced by a super nova, and since these elements are required for life as we know it, and since at least one generation of stars needed to live out their lives before the formation of our star system, we might be the first ones.

And since it only takes a couple of million years to let von Neumann probes visit and set up communications in every star system in this galaxy, it's even quite likely that we are the first ones, at least in this galaxy.


i doubt it...earth has had many mass extinctions which has set intelligent life back a ways...chances r somewhere out there a planet in a habitable zone has been luckier...but i suspect at tops only by tens of millions of years...any moron knows that evolution is a universe wide process...u can fucking see it happening everywhere...
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GONNAFISTYA
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PostPosted: 01-14-2008 11:44 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


[xeno]Julios wrote:
The universe is about 14-15 billion light years across, so it'd take that long for light to travel from one end to the other.



Actually you are way off. The universe is estimated to be 78 billion light years in diameter...and that's the lower estimate which most experts don't accept. It could be anywhere from 92 to 94 billion light years across and perhaps as big as 156 billion light years. It's simple: the universe has been expanding long before the galaxies formed and sent their light to us...which is what your estimate only takes into account.

As to whether or not we're the first intelligent life in the universe, I highly doubt it. The sheer number of potentials in combination with the immense time frame we're talking about means the odds are in the favor of intelligent life being pretty much everywhere (except that huge void they found recently). I firmly believe that most people have no clue just how long a billion years is....which is why we have creationists poo pooing evolution. Now multiply that time by roughly 15 and begin feeling humbled.

By the way go0f...the many mass extinctions that happened on this planet are the only fucking reason we're here, otherwise we'd all have been pinched out of a dinosaur's ass and never would have had the chance to evolve into intelligent beings. So saying that the ELEs "set intelligent life back a ways" (learn english fagg0t) is complete nonsense.




Last edited by GONNAFISTYA on 01-15-2008 12:14 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Grudge
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PostPosted: 01-15-2008 12:10 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Massive Quasars wrote:
Sure, but who can model that far ahead reliably?

The best approach we seem to have (implicit goals factored in) is to optimize towards indefinite lifespans and greater intelligence. The means to that end is open to argument.


Well, we're talking about timespans in the order of >20 billion years, so talking about "we" as in "humans" is more or less irrelevant anyway. Better to just generalize to life in general. Check out the final chapter of Wheeler, Barrow & Tipler (1988) for a more in-depth model.

Massive Quasars wrote:
I'm afraid such questions require a precise definition of intelligence and even then.... You've heard me say this before, but it appears to hold here.

Indeterminacies abound.


Planet evolved, carbon based agents with ability of abstract thought and creation of cultural and technological artifacts? Is there an actual viable alternative?
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Grudge
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PostPosted: 01-15-2008 12:18 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Massive Quasars wrote:
the singularity in the original Terminator story


I didn't know there was one?
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l0g1c
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PostPosted: 01-15-2008 12:23 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ryoki wrote:
I'll take your brain to another dimension.


*pays close attention*
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Pooinyourmouth
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PostPosted: 01-15-2008 02:21 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


ek wrote:
the answer is 42 or 43.



No the answer is 46+2.
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DTS
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PostPosted: 01-15-2008 02:56 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Massive Quasars wrote:
Bit of an aside here.

The end of the second episode of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles had a teaser for the third episode in which Johnnie boy discussed the technological Singularity.

Was there a tie in to the singularity in the original Terminator story, or are they taking a page out of Kurzweil and Yudkowsky's book?


"It was the machines ... hooked into everything, trusted to run it all"

"They say it got smart. A new order of intelligence. ... decided our fate in a microsecond. Termination."

It was called "Skynet", FYI. I didn't put that bit above cause I'm not sure exactly when he said that bit, but it was in the same scene.
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