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Topic Starter Topic: Re: global warming fraud exposed?...

Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
Joined: 24 Nov 2000
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PostPosted: 03-03-2008 02:14 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


i was going to post the same :olo:




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Tap, Nap, or Snap
Tap, Nap, or Snap
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PostPosted: 03-03-2008 03:03 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


EtUL wrote:
You people sound like lawl :olo:


You sound like Corky.




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Karot!
Karot!
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 03:02 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The only reason i'm not so worried about global warming / cooling is because i'm pretty convinced global oil depletion and resulting resource warfare will be with us long before mother earth goes into violent convulsions. The end is nigh etc.



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Necro
Necro
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 04:51 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


you better pray to which/what ever god you believe in those dykes hold!
:olo:



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Part 1.
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Karot!
Karot!
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 05:24 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm an atheist bus :smirk:
Also, the dykes are designed to withstand water that's a few meters higher than current sealevel, so even when those predictions about molten polar caps in five years turn out to be true, that should be ok.

I'm more worried about all the rivers flooding because of smeltwater, there's much less that can be done about that.

Interesting tidbit: Certain area's of Holland are designated as places that are acceptable to lose in case of extreme flooding. IE if the shit ever hits the fan some less populated, relatively worthless places are flooded on purpose to save other, more economically viable places, like cities.



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Necro
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 05:39 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ryoki wrote:
I'm an atheist bus :smirk:
Also, the dykes are designed to withstand water that's a few meters higher than current sealevel, so even when those predictions about molten polar caps in five years turn out to be true, that should be ok.


I know, it was just a figure of speech ;)

so you think you would be safe if a king tide and a storm surge hit Holland if the seas levels rise?



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Gaza's Shirt:
Sayyid Iman Al-Sharif (aka Dr Fadl)
Part 1.
http://www.aawsat.com/english/news.asp? ... 3&id=16980
Part 2.
http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=3&id=17003


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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 05:44 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


busetibi wrote:
Ryoki wrote:
I'm an atheist bus :smirk:
Also, the dykes are designed to withstand water that's a few meters higher than current sealevel, so even when those predictions about molten polar caps in five years turn out to be true, that should be ok.


so you think you would be safe if a king tide and a storm surge hit Holland if the seas levels rise?


Well, we kinda had that happen to us* back in 1953 after which we* built the Delta Works which should protect us from that ever happening again.


*) "us" and "we" referring to my ancestors. I'm not nationalistic enough to take credit for it all.




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Karot!
Karot!
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 05:47 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


busetibi wrote:
so you think you would be safe if a king tide and a storm surge hit Holland if the seas levels rise?


According to my engineer friend with whom i had a lenghty discussion about this some time ago: yes the system in place is designed to deal with that, provided that the sea levels don't rise more than 2 meters. Beyond that, all bets are off. *

But i live on the 5th floor, i ain't worried! :)

*when you think of it, quite a redundancy they built in there. A 2 meter rise in sea level may seem very possible now, in 1950 it must have been a very outlandish thought.



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Necro
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 06:02 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


sounds good, enjoy :)



_________________
Gaza's Shirt:
Sayyid Iman Al-Sharif (aka Dr Fadl)
Part 1.
http://www.aawsat.com/english/news.asp? ... 3&id=16980
Part 2.
http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=3&id=17003


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Tap, Nap, or Snap
Tap, Nap, or Snap
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 06:08 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ryoki wrote:
Interesting tidbit: Certain area's of Holland are designated as places that are acceptable to lose in case of extreme flooding. IE if the shit ever hits the fan some less populated, relatively worthless places are flooded on purpose to save other, more economically viable places, like cities.


This is known as the "Hurricane Katrina" philosophy.

On a different note, has anyone watched "Six Degrees Could Change The World"? It's a rather alarmist projection of what could happen if global temperatures continue to rise, degree by degree. Now, I should state that I believe that the earth is warming and that conspicuous consumption of resources is flat-out retarded, as well as harmful to the environment. That said, there was (at least) one thing in that program that left me wondering. There is a monk that has been living at the glacier that forms the headwaters of the Ganges and photographing it since 1955. He said that in 1965 he started seeing noticeable loss of glacial ice which has continued up to the present. The show made the connection that greenhouse gases have caused this. I think they mentioned cars as a possible culprit (could be wrong), and that got me thinking. If cars didn't become widespread in the US until about 1930 or so, are we to believe that 30 years of automobiles was enough to cause an appreciable change in the climate? The numbers that I've heard tell me that emissions from cars are a fairly low percentage of total greenhouse gas creation, so I find this a bit hard to accept. If this postulate is truth, then why has there not been an exponentially increasing loss of glacial ice worldwide? I know that glaciers are indeed melting, but the rates don't seem to match up.
As I said, there are plenty of sound reasons to stop burning through our petroleum resources as fast as possible, I just wonder if global warming is one of them.




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Etile
Etile
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 10:31 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


you know, the man-made aspect of global warming could still turn out to be bollocks. science doesn't always lay down facts like road




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Elite
Elite
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 10:35 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


seremtan wrote:
you know, the man-made aspect of global warming could still turn out to be bollocks. science doesn't always lay down facts like road



BLASPHEMY! WE ARE EVIL! REPENT AND GO GREEN!




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Tap, Nap, or Snap
Tap, Nap, or Snap
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 10:36 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


seremtan wrote:
you know, the man-made aspect of global warming could still turn out to be bollocks. science doesn't always lay down facts like road


Of course not, but that's not what the Gore camp would have you believe.




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Welfare Recipient
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 10:37 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


the only reason global warming isn't accelerating is becuz of global dimming...scared?...




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Canadian Shaft
Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 10:48 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


seremtan wrote:
you know, the man-made aspect of global warming could still turn out to be bollocks.

How do you figure this?




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Welfare Recipient
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 10:53 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
How do you figure this?


what ur so retarded u can't even think of a reason?...wow monumental moron we got here...




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Immortal
Immortal
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 10:57 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
seremtan wrote:
you know, the man-made aspect of global warming could still turn out to be bollocks.

How do you figure this?


i tend to agree with you puff but we are far from knowing everything about climate cycles and their causes over the last few billion years. probably better to keep an open mind. the problem with staying too fixated on the human aspect is possibly missing another legitimate cause.




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plained
plained
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 11:00 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


yea like remember how they blamed everything on that poor el nineo ?



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Elite
Elite
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 11:07 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


In the 70s it was global cooling too. turned out to be nothing.




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Canadian Shaft
Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 11:13 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


There has been a scientific consensus on this for 20 years people. Do you understand what consensus means?


http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/f ... /5702/1686
The scientific consensus is clearly expressed in the reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Created in 1988 by the World Meteorological Organization and the United Nations Environmental Programme, IPCC's purpose is to evaluate the state of climate science as a basis for informed policy action, primarily on the basis of peer-reviewed and published scientific literature (3). In its most recent assessment, IPCC states unequivocally that the consensus of scientific opinion is that Earth's climate is being affected by human activities: "Human activities ... are modifying the concentration of atmospheric constituents ... that absorb or scatter radiant energy. ... [M]ost of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations" [p. 21 in (4)].

IPCC is not alone in its conclusions. In recent years, all major scientific bodies in the United States whose members' expertise bears directly on the matter have issued similar statements. For example, the National Academy of Sciences report, Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questions, begins: "Greenhouse gases are accumulating in Earth's atmosphere as a result of human activities, causing surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean temperatures to rise" [p. 1 in (5)]. The report explicitly asks whether the IPCC assessment is a fair summary of professional scientific thinking, and answers yes: "The IPCC's conclusion that most of the observed warming of the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations accurately reflects the current thinking of the scientific community on this issue" [p. 3 in (5)].

Others agree. The American Meteorological Society (6), the American Geophysical Union (7), and the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) all have issued statements in recent years concluding that the evidence for human modification of climate is compelling (8).

The drafting of such reports and statements involves many opportunities for comment, criticism, and revision, and it is not likely that they would diverge greatly from the opinions of the societies' members. Nevertheless, they might downplay legitimate dissenting opinions. That hypothesis was tested by analyzing 928 abstracts, published in refereed scientific journals between 1993 and 2003, and listed in the ISI database with the keywords "climate change" (9).

The 928 papers were divided into six categories: explicit endorsement of the consensus position, evaluation of impacts, mitigation proposals, methods, paleoclimate analysis, and rejection of the consensus position. Of all the papers, 75% fell into the first three categories, either explicitly or implicitly accepting the consensus view; 25% dealt with methods or paleoclimate, taking no position on current anthropogenic climate change. Remarkably, none of the papers disagreed with the consensus position.



Admittedly, authors evaluating impacts, developing methods, or studying paleoclimatic change might believe that current climate change is natural. However, none of these papers argued that point.

This analysis shows that scientists publishing in the peer-reviewed literature agree with IPCC, the National Academy of Sciences, and the public statements of their professional societies.




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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 11:17 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


scientists have had consensuses on many things that turned out to be wrong...whats ur point moron?...




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Etile
Etile
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 12:36 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
seremtan wrote:
you know, the man-made aspect of global warming could still turn out to be bollocks.

How do you figure this?


how do i figure that it could turn out to be bollocks? i figure this because science deals in probabilities, hypothesis-testing and paradigms, hence putative theories can be cut down by future developments. i'm not saying that will necessarily happen in this case, merely that it could




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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 01:27 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yes and you could get laid tomorrow but the chance is so minuscule it's not worth mentioning is it.




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Etile
Etile
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 02:14 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


yeah, that's the spirit: why bother responding to the point when a bitter, unfunny and actually quite inaccurate flame effort will do instead?

good one




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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 02:18 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


seremtan wrote:
yeah, that's the spirit: why bother responding to the point when a bitter, unfunny and actually quite inaccurate flame effort will do instead?

good one

If you didn't get my point, I'm saying why would you mention that the science could be wrong when the chance of that is so incredibly small? What value does it have in this thread?

When someone tells you they quit smoking do you remind them that it could turn out that smoking doesn't cause cancer?

Get my point now? And sheesh, my reply was a joke. Lighten the fuck up.




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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 02:25 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Quote:
In 1914, there was a consensus among geologists that the earth under our feet was permanently fixed, and that it was absurd to think it could be otherwise. But in 1915, Alfred Wegener fought an enormous battle to convince them of the relevance of plate tectonics.
In 1904, there was a consensus among physicists that Newtonian mechanics was, at last, the final word in explaining the workings of the world. All that was left to do was to mop up the details. But in 1905, Einstein and a few others soon convinced them that this view was false.
In 1544, there was a consensus among mathematicians that it was impossible to calculate the square root of negative one, and that to even consider the operation was absurd. But in 1545, Cardano proved that, if you wanted to solve polynomial equations, then complex numbers were a necessity.
In 1972, there was a consensus among psychiatrists that homosexuality was a psychological, treatable, sickness. But in 1973, the American Psychiatric Association held court and voted for a new consensus to say that it was not.
In 1979, there was a consensus among paleontologists that the dinosaurs’ demise was a long, drawn out affair, lasting millions of years. But in 1980, Alvarez, father and son, introduced evidence of a cataclysmic cometary impact 65 million years before.
In 1858, there was a consensus among biologists that the animal species that surround us were put there as God designed them. But in 1859, the book On the Origin of Species appeared.
In 1928, there was a consensus among astronomers that the heavens were static, the boundaries of the universe constant. But in 1929, Hubble observed his red shift among the stars.
In 1834, there was a consensus among physicians that human disease was spontaneously occurring, due to imbalanced humours. But in 1835, Bassi and later Pasteur, introduced doctors to the germ theory.
All these are, obviously, but a small fraction of the historical examples of consensus in science...

Albert Eisenstein, Nikola Tesla, Isambard Kingdom Brunel are all men that were attacked and ridiculed by the rest of the scientific community for not agreeing with the scientific consensus who turned out to be geniuses and all proved them selves right.


like i said...ur a monumental moron puff...




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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 02:48 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


There's a big difference between consensus on incomplete theories and consensus on issues involving oodles of measurable data. One theory can be held with much more certainty.

I guess you're a moron for not being able to tell the difference.




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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 03:01 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


just admit ur a moron puff and it laughter will at least slow down...rofl...




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Tap, Nap, or Snap
Tap, Nap, or Snap
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 03:04 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Has all this measurable data not conflicted on more than one occasion? What about the data on which the report in goof's opening post is based?
Don't get me wrong, I think we need to drastically reduce our carbon emissions, for a number of reasons. It's just that when I see sketchy causal links drawn it makes me wonder.

P.S. Based on oodles of measurable data, people KNEW the Earth was flat and that it was the center of the universe.




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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 03:08 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


oh btw...ipcc forecasts have consistently been higher then reality for decades...hmmm...




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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 03:10 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Quote:
ulcers: prior to 1992, over ten thousand scientific articles were written on the pathophysiology and psychology of ulcers. They were clearly the scourge of the modern day. It all had something to do with drinking and smoking and diet and corporate life and psychology and stress.

This was not only the consensus, it was the truth. There were not any skeptics or deniers.

Academic careers flourished by studying the relation of acidity to stress stimuli. gastric freezing devices were patented.

the data was universally accepted.

And it was all absolutely completely wrong. every single paper, every single textbook


i could go on with these forever but i guess puff likes being wrong all the time so i'll stop now...unless u want more nitwit...




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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 03:19 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Nightshade wrote:
Has all this measurable data not conflicted on more than one occasion? What about the data on which the report in goof's opening post is based?
Don't get me wrong, I think we need to drastically reduce our carbon emissions, for a number of reasons. It's just that when I see sketchy causal links drawn it makes me wonder.

P.S. Based on oodles of measurable data, people KNEW the Earth was flat and that it was the center of the universe.



Care to back up your claim in the p.s.? Based on oodles of data? I think not. What data led them to believe the heavens rotated around the earth and not visa versa? And what data made people think the world was flat?

As for geoof's article, it's dealing with temperatures not co2 concentrations or co4 concentrations. It holds no contention or proof that humans aren't affecting the world's climate. We're putting 27 billion tonnes of co2 alone into the atmosphere a year now. It's simple chemistry. Discounting our role because other factors exist is a mistake imho.




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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 03:21 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


scared? wrote:
Quote:
ulcers: prior to 1992, over ten thousand scientific articles were written on the pathophysiology and psychology of ulcers. They were clearly the scourge of the modern day. It all had something to do with drinking and smoking and diet and corporate life and psychology and stress.

This was not only the consensus, it was the truth. There were not any skeptics or deniers.

Academic careers flourished by studying the relation of acidity to stress stimuli. gastric freezing devices were patented.

the data was universally accepted.

And it was all absolutely completely wrong. every single paper, every single textbook


i could go on with these forever but i guess puff likes being wrong all the time so i'll stop now...unless u want more nitwit...

Hey geoof. Consensus has it that lead is a poison. I suggest you ignore that though. Get a lead cup, and a lead plate, and hearty supping to you my friend.




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Immortal
Immortal
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 03:27 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_worl ... kes-2.html

Quote:
Scientists find bacteria in snowflakes

BY CORKY SIEMASZKO
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Saturday, March 1st 2008, 4:00 AM

You may not want to eat the snow.

Scientists have discovered something that will make many people think twice about lapping up those beautiful white snowflakes - they're often held together by bacteria.

"Bacteria are by far the most active ice nuclei in nature," said Brent Christner, an assistant professor of biological sciences at Louisiana State University.

The bacteria roaming around in the atmosphere are largely the kind that form on the surface of plants and poses scant danger to humans.

Still, Christner's findings, which were reported in yesterday's edition of the journal Science, are the first evidence that live bacteria plays a big role in the creation of snowflakes as well as raindrops.

"It's surprising to atmospheric scientists that biological particles are found everywhere," Christner said. "Their effect on climate and cloud formation is one of the biggest unknowns in climate models."


you mean to tell me with all the equipment available to scientists today they are just finding this out? how could they miss something like this in a substance so abundant on earth?

it tells me scientists are only human. they make an honest effort to base conclusions on data they have at any moment in time. sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong.




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Immortal
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PostPosted: 03-05-2008 03:30 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
Hey geoof. Consensus has it that lead is a poison. I suggest you ignore that though. Get a lead cup, and a lead plate, and hearty supping to you my friend.


all you're doing is playing a tit for tat game. he's right, you're right.

so who's RIGHT?




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