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Topic Starter Topic: Re: Playstation 4
Eraser
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PostPosted: 07-26-2013 11:02 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


What you're forgetting is that not every console buyer is a PC savvy person who knows how to compare stuff like this and build their own living room gaming system with a custom PC.

For those people a console is like a straight forward plug and play gaming solution. Sure, you'll argue that building your own gaming PC and hooking it up to your TV isn't much more complex, but for these people it is, even if that's just because they believe it is.

And I'm not talking about morons and elderly people, it's the majority of the people. It's not them that's stupid, it's us that have above average knowledge on the topic.
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GONNAFISTYA
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PostPosted: 07-26-2013 11:13 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
What you're forgetting is that not every console buyer is a PC savvy person who knows how to compare stuff like this and build their own living room gaming system with a custom PC.

For those people a console is like a straight forward plug and play gaming solution. Sure, you'll argue that building your own gaming PC and hooking it up to your TV isn't much more complex, but for these people it is, even if that's just because they believe it is.

And I'm not talking about morons and elderly people, it's the majority of the people. It's not them that's stupid, it's us that have above average knowledge on the topic.


If you insist on basing your argument that the majority of people are morons, then I'd counter exactly that fact, that you're forgetting is that not every PC buyer is a PC savvy person who knows how to compare stuff like this and build their own living room gaming system with a custom PC. The PC is the LARGEST SKU that you can play games on...period. And of that segment, less than 20% are "hardcore" and upgrade their machines specifically for games. Most "PC gamers" know as much about their PC hardware as they do about console hardware: exactly zero.

Stop believing the myths and dumb arguments console supporters are offering...none of it is objective or even true.
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U4EA
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PostPosted: 07-26-2013 12:18 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


GONNAFISTYA wrote:
I honestly cannot understand why anyone who's used to PC gaming would ever consider buying one of these consoles...

It's really not that difficult to understand. Some exclusives don't make it over to the PC, and are worth investing into the console just for them. For example, God of War 3, LittleBigPlanet, the Uncharted series, The Last of Us, MGS4, Heavy Rain, Killzone for the PS3.

Furthermore, consoles are a great way of social gaming. Gathering around a large TV screen with a bunch of mates and controllers is a lot more fun than a PC/laptop LAN type scenario.

That said, although I do have a PS3 right now, PC/Steam is still my primary platform, and I doubt I'll be getting a next gen console for a year past release.
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 07-26-2013 12:43 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


GONNAFISTYA wrote:

If you insist on basing your argument that the majority of people are morons, then I'd counter exactly that fact, that you're forgetting is that not every PC buyer is a PC savvy person who knows how to compare stuff like this and build their own living room gaming system with a custom PC. The PC is the LARGEST SKU that you can play games on...period. And of that segment, less than 20% are "hardcore" and upgrade their machines specifically for games. Most "PC gamers" know as much about their PC hardware as they do about console hardware: exactly zero.

Stop believing the myths and dumb arguments console supporters are offering...none of it is objective or even true.

I'm being the devil's advocate, because of course I know setting up a gaming PC isn't that hard, but you're overestimating the average PC user. When you ask people why they won't hook up their PC to their TV via HDMI and use a wireless controller, they go "ohhh that stuff's just too complex for me". Whether that's a rational thought or not is irrelevant here. The fact remains that they believe it is and therefore they'll choose the console. In fact, I think only a small minority of PC gamers even considers the possibility of moving the PC away from the desk and towards the TV. Not even many relatively savvy gamers will.
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GONNAFISTYA
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PostPosted: 07-26-2013 12:52 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Anyone who buys a platform for "exclusivity" probably votes Republican or is dumb enough to. Nobody except marketing geeks gives a flying fuck about those people. Nobody. They'll pretend to care, just so they can brag about "exclusivity" but honestly...nobody cares.

And while it's true that loads of consumers believe that "PC to tv" is "hard" or "complex" it really doesn't help when people keep reinforcing it. I guess I'm saying "fuck u" for being devil's advocate...just on the off-chance someone reads your post and believes "it's too complex". Besides...this can solve alot of those issues if it takes off.

As I said in my last post: most of what the console supporters are saying is bullshit and people believe it. I guess I'm railing against the non-stop flood of misinformation....sorta the same frustration I have with Fox News: it's all bullshit and people with half a brain know it's bullshit...but the other 90% are fucking morons who'll consume it regardless.
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U4EA
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PostPosted: 07-26-2013 02:15 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


GONNAFISTYA wrote:
Anyone who buys a platform for "exclusivity" probably votes Republican or is dumb enough to. Nobody except marketing geeks gives a flying fuck about those people. Nobody. They'll pretend to care, just so they can brag about "exclusivity" but honestly...nobody cares.

What an idiotic thing to say. You don't buy a platform for exclusivity. You buy it to play some really good games that you can't play anywhere else. For some people it's worth it, for others it's not.
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GONNAFISTYA
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PostPosted: 07-26-2013 04:01 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ah I thought you meant a "I can have it but you can't" approach, which is a common sentiment when discussing such things with owners of aforementioned exclusives.

But getting a console for Killzone or Heavy Rain? :p
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zewulf
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PostPosted: 07-26-2013 06:03 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I’m not sure why some PC gamers feel the need to diss consoles. I personally don’t see much difference gaming on either platform. I play on both, provided my PC (a laptop actually) can handle it. But there lies the problem for me when it comes to PC gaming. I’m not hardcore enough that I want to spend hundreds of dollar (possibly more than the price of a console) upgrading a PC every year or two just so I can play the latest PC games. If you think doing that is worth it to you, all power to you, but it’s not for me.

Console is a far more stable, efficient, consistent, and economical platform. It’s plug and play; you don’t have to worry about drivers, configs, and all that shit. Plus the games are highly optimized for the hardware. It’s able to do more with less, unlike the brute force approach that PC has always taken. Just about the only advantage that the PC has over an aging console is graphics, but as we have seen in this generation with graphics getting good enough that improvements are getting diminishing returns compared to previous generations. Besides, games shouldn’t just be about graphics anyway, right? And do you honestly think titles like The Last of Us looks far worse than most PC games?

The way I see it, PC gaming is becoming more and more a niche market, especially in regards to those hardcore gamers who are willing to spend and upgrade. It’s been well reported that this year has been the worst year in history for PC sales. Why? Because people are moving on to tablets. I know my next PC most likely will be a tablet. Tablets may eventually be powerful enough to be the new PC game platform, but I don’t see that happening any time soon. So in the foreseeable future, it looks like I’ll be gaming strictly on the console. Am I going to miss PC gaming? Probably not. As I said before, for me there’s not much difference gaming on either platform. I suppose the only thing I’ll miss from the PC is being able to use mouse/keyboard for FPS games.
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zewulf
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PostPosted: 07-26-2013 06:04 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Pretty insightful interview with PS4 architect Mark Cerny. This was from a few months back, but I haven’t seen it posted here yet.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=532077

Btw, that max 2.75 GHz in the PS4 should be the write clock frequency of the GDDR5 RAM.
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Captain
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PostPosted: 07-26-2013 09:43 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


U4EA wrote:
For example, God of War 3, LittleBigPlanet, the Uncharted series, The Last of Us, MGS4, Heavy Rain, Killzone for the PS3.


lol, at least list some games worth playing.
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Don Carlos
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PostPosted: 07-27-2013 03:32 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


GONNAFISTYA wrote:
Eraser wrote:
What you're forgetting is that not every console buyer is a PC savvy person who knows how to compare stuff like this and build their own living room gaming system with a custom PC.

For those people a console is like a straight forward plug and play gaming solution. Sure, you'll argue that building your own gaming PC and hooking it up to your TV isn't much more complex, but for these people it is, even if that's just because they believe it is.

And I'm not talking about morons and elderly people, it's the majority of the people. It's not them that's stupid, it's us that have above average knowledge on the topic.


If you insist on basing your argument that the majority of people are morons, then I'd counter exactly that fact, that you're forgetting is that not every PC buyer is a PC savvy person who knows how to compare stuff like this and build their own living room gaming system with a custom PC. The PC is the LARGEST SKU that you can play games on...period. And of that segment, less than 20% are "hardcore" and upgrade their machines specifically for games. Most "PC gamers" know as much about their PC hardware as they do about console hardware: exactly zero.

Stop believing the myths and dumb arguments console supporters are offering...none of it is objective or even true.


I'm not a moron and I understand what it takes to run a good game, but I got bored of buying a £300 graphics card every 2 years to keep me up to day with stuff and I grew lazy.
I haven't upgraded my PC for nearly 3 years now and I am likely to get a PS4 before I do upgrade anything on my PC. My PC does everything I want it to but to play the latest games with everything turned up to high and looking super I'd need to drop £600 at minimum. Or I could blast out £350 on a PS4 which won't need upgrading and still look better than my current PC.
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PostPosted: 07-27-2013 06:53 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Don't sell urself short Carlos...ur a tremendous moron...
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PostPosted: 07-27-2013 06:54 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Also lol @ poor ppl who constantly complain about buying hardware etc...
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shaft
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PostPosted: 07-27-2013 06:58 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


lol @ thinking you need to upgrade your gfx every 2 years. If that's your excuse and you claim console graphics are fine you would've had to buy somthing in 2006 and never upgraded in the last 7 years to stay on par with the current gen. Argument invalid.
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PostPosted: 07-27-2013 07:08 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


He's just poor...and that makes him ignorant...
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obsidian
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PostPosted: 07-27-2013 07:12 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I haven't upgraded my computer in more than 3 years and I'm still playing all the latest games on high graphics and don't see the need to upgrade anything anytime soon. :dork: Also, it's been a long time since I had to muck around with searching for drivers for my computer. Windows update handles pretty much everything except for archaic hardware like my old laser printer. I agree that games aren't just about graphics, but then again PC games are not just about graphics either. Not all the PC games I play have super graphics nor do I feel the need to always turn everything up.

People saying that they need to dump a massive amount of money into a gaming PC is either seriously out of date with current hardware performance and prices, or are enthusiasts who are more interested in building as big of a space heater as they can just for the heck of it. If you're not the latter group of people, you can get a pretty decent computer to run all the latest games for not all that much money.

Then there is the price for games, PC games are in general cheaper, more likely to go down in price, and more often to go on sale (take my money, Steam). There is also a *much* wider selection of games and genres on the PC. Despite the growth in the mobile gaming market, the PC video game market is still by far the largest piece of the pie. Besides, most people need a PC anyway so you can do stuff like work, email, watch porn and read the latest LawL vs. Goof thread on Q3W.

Look, consoles are cool and all and they have an important part to play in the video game market. I understand if PC's are not the platform of choice for you. But those of you who are dismissing PCs as excessively expensive, niche market machines that are doomed to die a slow torturous death are just flat out wrong.

(P.S. LOL poor people, etc.)



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PostPosted: 07-27-2013 07:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


ALL my kids eventually gravitate to the PC...when a new game comes out for console they play it a while...then back to a real mans setup...
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obsidian
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PostPosted: 07-27-2013 07:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Is that when they scratch your monitor with rocks?



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PostPosted: 07-27-2013 08:09 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Or cover it with stickers...yeah...
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Don Carlos
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PostPosted: 07-27-2013 01:00 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


http://www.joystiq.com/2013/07/26/ps4-a ... e-by-side/
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Doombrain
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PostPosted: 07-28-2013 01:49 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Look at the size of that thing.
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zewulf
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PostPosted: 07-28-2013 04:20 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


No one’s saying PC gaming is dying here, but compared to the mainstream, it is more or less a niche market whether you deny it or not, especially when you’re talking about those hardcore nutters who spend $1K+ on a graphics card alone. The last time I used a desktop PC was the gaming rig I built, and that was more than 10 years ago. I moved on to laptops, which wasn’t really suitable for gaming back then. Although laptops can now be a proper platform for PC gaming, I’m now ready to move on to tablets, so the cycle starts again.

Sure if you’re not a hardcore PC gamer, and you start off with a decent gaming PC, you can probably make it last 3 or more years if you’re not too fussy about frame rates, high quality settings, or playing at your LCD’s native resolution, but that doesn’t negate the fact that you’d still need to upgrade sooner and more frequently. Another big factor affecting your PC’s mileage is the games themselves. Some games will simply run better than others. For a multiplatform title, it’s even entirely possible that medium settings may get you by and be playable on your PC but actually looks worse and with lower frame rates than the console version. It’s a no brainer then which version I’d rather play.

I have to admit I’m not as crazy as I used to be about gaming, and I really don’t have time to be playing games anymore. In the end, which platform I game on is irrelevant. I do it on the platform that meets my needs and makes sense to me the most, which I’m afraid is not the PC platform. Could I get/build a separate PC just for gaming? Absolutely. But is it going to be worth it for me? No.

Oh, and I may be poor, but at least I’m debt-free and can still afford the more expensive console games :D
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zewulf
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PostPosted: 07-28-2013 04:23 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Sony handing out PS4 dev kits "like candy." I'm no developer, but I wonder if I can get one too...

http://www.gamespot.com/news/sony-loani ... ar-6412084
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PostPosted: 07-28-2013 04:40 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Zenerd or just plain Zepoor?...
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shaft
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PostPosted: 07-28-2013 08:11 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


guy who hasn't built a pc in 10 years proceeds to tell everyone what type of mileage you can get out of a modern gaming pc....sounds legit.
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obsidian
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PostPosted: 07-29-2013 07:10 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


zewulf wrote:
...compared to the mainstream, it is more or less a niche market whether you deny it or not


... which is why Valve and Steam has an annual revenue of $600-800 million and had passed the $1-billion sales mark in 2011. There are over 54 million active user accounts and over 6 million concurrent players. Just Steam, not counting the entire PC market. Yup, sounds like a pretty niche market.

zewulf wrote:
...especially when you’re talking about those hardcore nutters who spend $1K+ on a graphics card alone.


So your perception of the entire PC gaming community has been formed by looking at the top 1% of ultra-enthusiasts? God, who can afford to drive anymore, a Bugatti Veyron costs over $2-million.

zewulf wrote:
For a multiplatform title, it’s even entirely possible that medium settings may get you by and be playable on your PC but actually looks worse and with lower frame rates than the console version.


I don't know what gave you that idea. Even a low end budget PC rivals the performance of the latest unreleased consoles, so even if the game is unoptimized a PC will still chug through it. Most multiplatform games will have better texture resolutions, antialiasing and other special effects on the PC. There are lazy console-to-PC ports (Borderlands, for instance) where stuff like the interface is optimized for a controller instead of keyboard/mouse, but it's still quite playable, performance is great, and if you want you can plug in your Xbox controller. The same can be said in reverse, there are some pretty awkward PC-to-console ports as well, but graphics are almost always striped down.




Everyone here understands that everyone games on the platform that works best for them, but it seems as if you keep trying to marginalize the PC market as some kind of archaic niche that will be phased out by tablets of all things. Consoles haven't been able to make a dent in the PC gaming market, I don't know what makes you think that a device with even less performance power will somehow replace it.

There are two figures at play here:
  • The overall gaming market is constantly growing.
  • The market is diversifying across different devices.
But at no point is there any indication that one device is cannibalizing the gaming market of another device, each is growing independently.



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bitWISE
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PostPosted: 07-29-2013 07:56 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


You've been able to get a strong video card for ~$300 for this whole generation. Dropping $1k only gets you nerd points on obscure benchmarks.
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PostPosted: 07-29-2013 07:59 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Lol dumb poor ppl!...
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GONNAFISTYA
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PostPosted: 07-29-2013 08:31 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I thought of replying to zewulf's idiotic post, but it's really a waste of time as he believes so much total bullshit. I mean, his first sentence is so blatantly wrong it's like attempting to reason with a Fox News fan who's swallowed the whole "birther" thing whole...there's no getting through because the walls of BS are simply too thick. I'll say this one more time and then I'm only going to bash from here on out: the PC is the LARGEST gaming platform, with the LARGEST number of users, the LARGEST number of games available for it and the LARGEST SKU that generates profits for devs/publishers.

For the last time, PC is not dying/dead/whatever stupid bullshit you've heard from some retarded gaming site/angry editorial. It's not a fucking niche market.

Fucking idiots.

Sigh...I find I'm having this attitude more and more with gamers who have no fucking clue what they're talking about. All this stupid reminds me of that fucking air-headed mother I met on the plane who thought my job was "to ruin children". Politeness just doesn't fucking work anymore.




Last edited by GONNAFISTYA on 07-29-2013 08:36 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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shaft
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PostPosted: 07-29-2013 08:34 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Guy drops $180 on XBL for 3 years then says $180 for a video card every 3 years is a high barrier of entry.
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PostPosted: 07-29-2013 08:51 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Lol...this zeguy is extremely dumb!...
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PostPosted: 07-29-2013 08:53 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Also...I bet new gen games will look shitty for years...about the same as current Xbox...lol consoles...
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MKJ
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PostPosted: 07-29-2013 08:58 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


shaft wrote:
Guy drops $180 on XBL for 3 years then says $180 for a video card every 3 years is a high barrier of entry.

Good point
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zewulf
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PostPosted: 07-29-2013 08:30 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Problem is, when you upgrade and depending on the games, you typically would not just be upgrading the graphics card alone, unless your PC was out of balance to begin with (e.g., the GPU being the bottleneck).
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shaft
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PostPosted: 07-29-2013 11:50 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Problem is, you're wrong...most people don't upgrade all their components at once...that's called buying a new pc. I have an i7 from '08 with a gfx card from '10 which plays shit at 5x the quality of a ps3. If I was satisfied with console level graphics I would've kept my gfx card from '06. You don't even PC bro...just stop.
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