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Topic Starter Topic: Re: Another attack in France

Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 12:15 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


scared? wrote:
Not really... Islamic terrorism in the west is purely political and caused by the west interfering...


It's the same as when Ireland were kicking off, the minority is being marginalised by the majority and vice versa ?. So instead of campaigning their ideas they find someone to bash and blow them up. The IRA had fucktards from all over the globe funding their fight against the public thanks to their propaganda campaign.

The problem is n all you can look at places like Libya, it's just one big melting pot of views. It's not hard to see how mis informed hatred is spread.



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Timed Out
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 07:49 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
Yep.

Ah. What's the connection?




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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 07:55 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
scared? wrote:
If the west just stayed out of the middle east, there would be no terrorism in the west... price u pay when u swing ur dick all over the world...


With or without Iraq terrorism would've carried on.

You'd literally have to go back to before the Ottoman empire to fix this shit. I mean the problems 'they' have are with governments in their region.

I strongly disagree with this. Zooming in on the Balfour Declaration would probably be more useful.

The very aggressive and invasive policies of the West in the Middle East during the last century could be rightly cited as the firm root of the current problems imo.




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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 08:00 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Also, looks like this guy wasn't religious. He may very well have found the 'cause' of ISIS to be a good one to attach his anger to, seeking to attach 'reason' to his violence. <= This is the thinking of psychologists who study killers.

He might not have been religious but might still have had sympathy in ISIS' political cause. (America's imperialism in that region)




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Timed Out
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 08:41 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Quality gymnastics brah.

On a serious note you're not wrong, I agree that demonizing Islam is not the answer. There are Muslims, many out there a majority even, that are not violent. They want to live their lives and let others live their lives however they wish so long as they don't interfere with others. This is to be applauded.

What's not working is the intersection of the Muslim faith and migration from war-torn countries. Double-fuckup where that migration takes place to nations that have been backing said war efforts. This shouldn't be allowed to occur and it's leading to preventable deaths.




Last edited by Foo on 07-16-2016 08:52 PM, edited 2 times in total.

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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 08:45 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Everyone interviewed says he wasn't religious. Is there any evidence you know of that suggests otherwise?




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 08:48 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
losCHUNK wrote:

With or without Iraq terrorism would've carried on.

You'd literally have to go back to before the Ottoman empire to fix this shit. I mean the problems 'they' have are with governments in their region.

I strongly disagree with this. Zooming in on the Balfour Declaration would probably be more useful.

The very aggressive and invasive policies of the West in the Middle East during the last century could be rightly cited as the firm root of the current problems imo.


As far as I am aware that declaration was in response to Jewish persecution and were looking for representation, Arabs were also falsely promised independence that they got in exactly the same way the Jews did, by fighting the British.

But then there was uprisings in the Ottoman long before that, uprisings or 'terrorist' groups fought with the British in WWI and is what helped bring them down, Sunni, Shite, Armenian, Persian etc. Not saying we helped shit, but, these problems can be traced back to before written history - probaly, religous claims n shit. The fact is they had a large Jewish population being persecuted (partly due to migration but not entirely the Wests fault), who were demanding exactly the same thing as the Irish at the same time, leading successful terror campaigns against the British and literally driving them out of modern day Israel. They all ended up getting what they wanted, kinda.

HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
Everyone interviewed says he wasn't religious. Is there any evidence you know of that suggests otherwise?


His wife / ex wife said he visited a Mosque in April ? and his phone showed he had been in contact with known terrorist affiliated (although could be coincidental).



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Last edited by losCHUNK on 07-16-2016 08:50 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 08:50 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
His wife / ex wife said he visited a Mosque in April ? and his phone showed he had been in contact with known terrorist affiliated (although could be coincidental).

So he went to a mosque once and that was notable. Proves my point from my perspective seeing as the devout go everyday...




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 08:51 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


He's also being portrayed as a loner, with little contact with his ex. If he did become radicalised they think it was over a short period of time. The investigation is on going though :up:

When's the last time you visited a Mosque ?, not something I've done to be fair.



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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 08:55 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It would be best if all media just said IS had little or nothing to do with it.




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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 08:55 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
He's also being portrayed as a loner, with little contact with his ex. If he did become radicalised they think it was over a short period of time. The investigation is on going though :up:

afaik he wasn't doing the (multi) daily prayers at home either (never did when he was married) so the loner thing doesn't suggest he avoided mosque but was still religious. but i have to emphaize that i don't really know what this guy was about. still apparently people who are willing to do this violence for whatever reason are drawn to the idea of a reason that they think will make them look better (again according to people who study these people).




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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 08:57 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
When's the last time you visited a Mosque ?, not something I've done to be fair.

Is that a by-the-way-just-curious question or are you trying to make a point? If the latter, replace "mosque" with church and re-evaluate the question.




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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 09:00 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
When's the last time you visited a Mosque ?, not something I've done to be fair.

perhaps if you were Muslim.




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 09:01 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
It would be best if all media just said IS had little or nothing to do with it.


It's kinda hard when they're claiming responsibility to be fair.

HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
losCHUNK wrote:
He's also being portrayed as a loner, with little contact with his ex. If he did become radicalised they think it was over a short period of time. The investigation is on going though :up:

afaik he wasn't doing the (multi) daily prayers at home either (never did when he was married) so the loner thing doesn't suggest he avoided mosque but was still religious. but i have to emphaize that i don't really know what this guy was about. still apparently people who are willing to do this violence for whatever reason are drawn to the idea of a reason that they think will make them look better (again according to people who study these people).


Same, I said on the page back that this guy looks like a prime candidate for someone like IS to fuck up though. He was in the right area too and was atleast in contact with radicalised people, the police have said.

The guy was obviously fucked up though, when I read the report about him having Psychosis that would probaly be the bigger factor in all this. But I think a better question would be, do we think he would've killed IF he has been in contact / radicalised by someone like IS ?



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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 09:02 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
losCHUNK wrote:
When's the last time you visited a Mosque ?, not something I've done to be fair.

perhaps if you were Muslim.


Well that was kinda my point ;)



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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 09:02 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
losCHUNK wrote:
When's the last time you visited a Mosque ?, not something I've done to be fair.

Is that a by-the-way-just-curious question or are you trying to make a point? If the latter, replace "mosque" with church and re-evaluate the question.


Went to a Church in April :up:



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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 09:06 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:

It's kinda hard when they're claiming responsibility to be fair.



The guy was obviously fucked up though, when I read the report about him having Psychosis that would probaly be the bigger factor in all this. But I think a better question would be, do we think he would've killed IF he has been in contact / radicalised by someone like IS ?


1) They are speaking for a dead man. Did he actually say anything of the like.

2) To answer your better question I think clearly the answer is yes. (assuming you meant to say hadn't been in contact)




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 09:08 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
losCHUNK wrote:

It's kinda hard when they're claiming responsibility to be fair.



The guy was obviously fucked up though, when I read the report about him having Psychosis that would probaly be the bigger factor in all this. But I think a better question would be, do we think he would've killed IF he has been in contact / radicalised by someone like IS ?


1) They are speaking for a dead man. Did he actually say anything of the like.

2) To answer your better question I think clearly the answer is yes. (assuming you meant to say hadn't)


1:

losCHUNK wrote:
Aye, I only sit on the side of caution because there isn't much to say this attack was religiously motivated. I havn't seen anything that said he was apart of any extremist groups or protests ?. I think the only connection to ISIS is ISIS themselves and I seen his wife mentioned he started visiting a mosque in April.



2:

I did, bold statement though, he could've just as easily sought help.



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Last edited by losCHUNK on 07-16-2016 09:10 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Timed Out
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 09:10 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
Everyone interviewed says he wasn't religious. Is there any evidence you know of that suggests otherwise?

He was Tunisian? Do you know the first thing about Tunisia?

To agree he was Tunisian *but not religious* suggests only 2 things:
* He falls into a narrow 2% (noooope)
* He was coerced into joining the nonsecular majority of that country

I don't know what it begins to suggest if the second option is what you're proposing.




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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 09:11 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
1:

losCHUNK wrote:
Aye, I only sit on the side of caution because there isn't much to say this attack was religiously motivated. I havn't seen anything that said he was apart of any extremist groups or protests ?. I think the only connection to ISIS is ISIS themselves and I seen his wife mentioned he started visiting a mosque in April.



2:

I did, but he could've just as easily sought help.


I just think there's a problem with pointing to religion when you have people like Omar Mateen specifically referencing wars of aggression (invasion of Afghanistan) which let's face it are a legitimate grievance even though i believe more violence isn't a solution.




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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 09:15 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Foo wrote:
HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
Everyone interviewed says he wasn't religious. Is there any evidence you know of that suggests otherwise?

He was Tunisian? Do you know the first thing about Tunisia?

To agree he was Tunisian *but not religious* suggests only 2 things:
* He falls into a narrow 2% (noooope)
* He was coerced into joining the nonsecular majority of that country

I don't know what it begins to suggest if the second option is what you're proposing.

As if all people who identify with a religion are strict (orthodox) adherents. By all accounts the guy was far from religious but he may still have identified with Islam. Hardly makes this a religious thing. Details are important.




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 09:26 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
I just think there's a problem with pointing to religion when you have people like Omar Mateen specifically referencing wars of aggression (invasion of Afghanistan) which let's face it are a legitimate grievance even though i believe more violence isn't a solution.


Well what does that guy want ?, only what I'm seeing during withdrawals is an increasingly destabalised country.

But my whole point is to do with the IS propaganda campaign, those Woolwich murderers were shouting about how the British soldiers raped his mother / countrymen or someshit... The guy was from fucking London !

I said on the page back that people like the truck driver and the Woolwich murderers are prime targets, mixed up fuckers looking to embrace and justify their fucked up heads and beliefs. It's how everyone finds their religion. If that guy had Psychosis and he was in contact with IS then I guarantee you that guy was a victim too, you could've told him you pissed sherbet and he'd open wide. The Woolwich murders in a fucked up way n all, for having their heads fucked with.

Religion is a tool for hidden motives, same for everyone.



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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 09:32 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
It's how everyone finds their religion.

wat?

losCHUNK wrote:
Religion is a tool for hidden motives, same for everyone.


I'm an atheist but don't agree with this.




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 09:35 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Religion targets someone and caters its beliefs to your views, it's what they mean by finding your religion imo, it aligns with your views. It's how Scientology fleece your for money n all. It's nothing more than a sales pitch.

And wether ya'll expecting front seats with God or forever being graced with good fortune, still a motive.



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Last edited by losCHUNK on 07-16-2016 09:37 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 09:37 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
Religion targets someone and caters its beliefs to your views, it's what they mean by finding your religion imo, it aligns with your views.

It's how Scientology fleece your for money n all, ya'll expecting front seats with God or forever be graced with fortune. Still a motive.

This is a blanket description which seeks to describe something which is very diverse. I think you're way off here.




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 09:38 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


OK give me an example of a religion that doesn't offer a reward ?

Sorry for edits.



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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 09:41 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
OK give me an example of a religion that doesn't offer a reward ?

Well how about I assert that many (most) religions will in fact not cater to one's currently held beliefs. That's what I was disagreeing with.




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 07-16-2016 09:43 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Because not everyone 'finds it' ?, did I insinuate everyone finds it ?. Doesn't mean they won't try though, before moving onto the next sales pitch. Anyone who follows a religion was looking for something when they found it (or would be giving something up if they lost it).

Why won't they tell you Noah is 1000 yrs old ?. You disagreed with both points in seperate posts too.



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Internet is serious business
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PostPosted: 07-17-2016 07:21 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


what's the difference between a radical muslim and a moderate muslim?

A radical muslim wants to kill you

A moderate muslim wants a radical to kill you

:ool:



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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 07-17-2016 09:52 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Never baguette !



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Legend
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PostPosted: 07-18-2016 05:28 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Not sure why this is still a religious debate, last time I checked zionism was a nationalist political belief. I think in some alternate timeline where Jill Stein has a chance of being elected, ISIS would fall apart.




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Welfare Recipient
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PostPosted: 07-18-2016 07:13 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The guy driving the truck was openly bisexual and non religious. So why is this supposed to be Islamic terrorism?... Oh cuz the west and fake ISIS says so... Got it... :olo: ...




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 07-18-2016 08:02 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


scared? wrote:
The guy driving the truck was openly bisexual and non religious. So why is this supposed to be Islamic terrorism?... Oh cuz the west and fake ISIS says so... Got it... :olo: ...


No one is really saying it is, just that it could be or even likely. Strange that you are so quick to dismiss it though, seeing as it was a pre planned attack that likely had accompliances with people being interviewed in the following investigation saying he had become radicalised very quickly (confirmed by interior ministers) with his uncle even saying that an Albanian man put him in contact with IS, they've (interior ministers) said his internet records show that he was searching for IS propaganda n all and showed support for them. Coupled with the shit I've already said about phone contacts, mental health, background and Mosques along with what you've mentioned about about IS claiming responsibility. It's still early days yet.



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PostPosted: 07-22-2016 02:52 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote




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Elite
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:dork: :disgust:




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