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Topic Starter Topic: Re: Just 90 companies are to blame for most climate change

Pestilence
Pestilence
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PostPosted: 08-27-2016 04:39 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Memphis wrote:
So says a 'climate accountant'...

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/08/ ... ntant-says

Hardly beyond belief. I do like the argument that choices are made for people. Though, at the end of the day (slashes wrists a bit), if you drive, you do (if minisculey) fuel the need for Oil.inc.


Not to mention the thousands of other things made from oil, starting with the device you're posting with.




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FuddyDuddy
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PostPosted: 08-27-2016 05:00 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That was enlightening



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Etile
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 01:54 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote





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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 08:30 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I was going to argue but then I remembered I'm not yank, but when speaking globally it's hard to address because of the varying levels of energy commitment from each nation.

In the UK it's 6ish billion VS 3.5 and when you consider the market share that's a bloody good proportion of funding :up: . I'm pretty sure that includes the Tax breaks those Tory fuckwits gave their friends and BP and Shell n all.

And still makes little headway :/. Its biggest problem is Nuclear, only green energy can compete with that and unfortunately Nuclear is a good trade off between cost / impact on the environment. Everything else, well, it can't even compete with a 60%+ tax rate on oil. I don't know what the Tories plans are for the future but it ain't good.

Wind farms are causing problems in Wales n all cos they're stuffing them anywhere. In places that would have planning applications disapproved otherwise.



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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 08:55 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


it's too late. the planet is fucked




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 08:59 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Now, now, now.

Arctic ices increasing / stablising and a smaller ozone hole. We're fucking owning this shit.



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Risen From The Ashes
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 09:00 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


A friend of mine who works for a certain Government energy regulating body swears wind is a far better solution to nuclear at the moment, mostly because it costs a huge amount less and doesn't involve outsourcing a massive amount of our energy infrastructure to China (e.g., Hinkley).

I wouldn't want a wind farm in my backyard but I don't get the whole "they look ugly" debate. I think they look quite nice :shrug:




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 09:15 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It varies from country to country but as a rule of thumb Nuclear is cheaper - but even with the UKs proportion of subsidies being weighted in wind powers favour (IE they get funding for construction / development / planning as a green energy (subsidies)) I've read the prices are pretty similiar in ideal conditions.

The outsourcing just comes down the Tories not wanting to reach into their own pocket.



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Last edited by losCHUNK on 08-28-2016 09:18 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 09:16 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
Now, now, now.

Arctic ices increasing / stablising and a smaller ozone hole. We're fucking owning this shit.

Arctic ice is decreasing and the ozone hole is getting better because we banned CFC's 25+ years ago...




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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 09:18 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Nuclear isn't cheaper when you factor in the huge subsidies, cost overruns and invisible costs. Also wind turbines don't produce millions of spent radioactive fuel rods that have to managed for thousands of years.




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 09:19 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yea but Antarcic ice :up: :up:

Arctic Ice is having a bit of a rebound too (why I mention stabilising) :up: :up:

And banned CFC's :up: :up: :up:

We rock.



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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 09:20 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
Nuclear isn't cheaper when you factor in the huge subsidies, cost overruns and invisible costs. Also wind turbines don't produce millions of spent radioactive fuel rods that have to managed for thousands of years.


I just told you the subsidies of green VS fossil in the UK and how green energy is subsidised in the UK.



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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 09:26 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
Yea but Antarcic ice :up: :up:

Arctic Ice is having a bit of a rebound too (why I mention stabilising) :up: :up:

And banned CFC's :up: :up: :up:

We rock.

source your claims here please.




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 09:32 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


You're joking ?.

The only one that is contestable is the Arctic sea Ice and despite having a rough 2 years is still up on its lowest ?



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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 09:33 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
Nuclear isn't cheaper when you factor in the huge subsidies, cost overruns and invisible costs. Also wind turbines don't produce millions of spent radioactive fuel rods that have to managed for thousands of years.


I just told you the subsidies of green VS fossil in the UK and how green energy is subsidised in the UK.

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/The_Real_Cost_o ... _Power.php

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 04903.html

etc.




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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 09:35 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
You're joking ?.

The only one that is contestable is the Arctic sea Ice and despite having a rough 2 years is still up on its lowest ?

even if the antarctic ice is rebounding a bit, the total global sea ice is decreasing. As well the planet has been getting hotter. The hotter the ocean, the bigger the ocean as the molecules expand.

I just don't see anything at all that paints climate change as getting better in any regard. Searching for evidence, would gladly read yours...




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 09:38 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


So from 3 to 1 and we shift the arguement.

Ok, we're fucked :) :up:



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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 09:40 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
So from 3 to 1 and we shift the arguement.

Ok, we're fucked :) :up:

not sure what from 3 to 1 is but i didn't shift the argument unless i misunderstood your point about antarctic ice and ozone depletion.




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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 09:42 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote





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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 09:42 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Nah, there was 3 points to provide a source for which I genuinely thought a pisstake (CFCs ?).

I focused on 3 main positives. I havn't got all the answers yo, but depending on what study you read or what research you get into the answers vary from we're fucked to 'not so bad'.

All I can say is we're still here.



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Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 09:44 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


you should have read seremtan's link too




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 10:02 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I skimmed it, I didn't / don't have the time to jump into it.

What I did do is try and grasp the concept, so I applied it to the UK energy industry (which is / was kind to renewables) and looked at it from a consumer stand point.

When it comes to oil comapanies n all, they don't get these breaks cos they're dirty fuel burners. They get these breaks cos they're big business. The amount of convos I've got into only for it to delve into conspiracies >:E

And I say fuck big business regardless :up:

Edit: Briefly looked at your 2nd link but I'm almost certain that construction costs / waste disposal is reflected in the price pmw. The last I read the prices were similiar I shall try and find some material on that or wether it's changed since, but the price I remember modern Nuclear electricity being about the 100 mark with wind being 10% off with the next generation of plants set to be more efficient.



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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 10:31 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


PhoeniX wrote:
A friend of mine who works for a certain Government energy regulating body swears wind is a far better solution to nuclear at the moment, mostly because it costs a huge amount less and doesn't involve outsourcing a massive amount of our energy infrastructure to China (e.g., Hinkley).

I wouldn't want a wind farm in my backyard but I don't get the whole "they look ugly" debate. I think they look quite nice :shrug:

There are a few wind farms in Vermont that I pass occasionally, and I think they look nice, too. I think a lot of it is due to what they represent to people, because I've met individuals who live near them that hate the turbines. They also don't happen to give two fucks about climate change.



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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 10:39 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


For the Welsh, they complain about it's ruining the landscape



Matter of opinion I spose.

Edit: better photo



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Last edited by losCHUNK on 08-28-2016 10:44 AM, edited 2 times in total.

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plained
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 10:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


yea they ruin it



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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 10:47 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yeah, I'd much rather have this sight instead of the turbines:

Image



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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 10:49 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yea they'd be pissed off about that too.

Not really an alternative...



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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 10:52 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Some people wouldn't be happy with any solution, they just want to complain.



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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 10:53 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Which is what everyone's doing.

Point I was making is I showed a reality where as you posted something that has been outsourced in Britain since the 60s. For wind power to be a reality a good proportion of the British green belt will have to go and should we dismiss those who have concerns over their impact on the environment ? (such as wild life). If it were a big business it would be scrutinised to fuck.



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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 11:03 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Wind farms are a big business, and they are scrutinized to all hell. Their impact on wildlife and the environment (even at scale) is practically nonexistent. Wind farms work best out at sea anyway, so I don't see the issue with just sticking a ton of them offshore. :shrug:



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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 11:13 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Offshore farms are only viable in certain areas and are not as cost efficient as land based farms

They're obviously damaging the environment n all if they're displacing wild life, that's the point of these green belts, to preserve the habitat. If it were anything else, such as a Walmart, Car park or road planning permission would likely be rejected in a lot of examples due to the rules when building outside urban areas. Companies have problems gaining permission (proposals) for anything over a certain height in urban areas - they usually have to buy the council off with a free park or someshit - but somehow these wind farm projects tend to over rule the opinion of the local community if they disagree.

Anyway g2g, bye everybody :D



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Extreme evil
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 11:59 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


he should hunt them down like he did in death wish

interesting read, also the other links in the thread



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Etile
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 12:17 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
that's the point of these green belts, to preserve the habitat.


yes - the habitat (and property prices) of upper middle class professionals who want to live in villages but also want an easy commute




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 02:43 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yes, let your cynical side take hold >: D

In fairness you cant expect everyone thinks like that. On the wole these places - like Brecon / Merthyr have some of the lowest house prices in the UK thanks to a lack of shit (and possibly inbreading)



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Finno-Persian Legend
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PostPosted: 08-28-2016 04:03 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
inbreading


Image




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