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Topic Starter Topic: Re: Rage
phantasmagoria
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PostPosted: 08-17-2009 05:54 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


New stuff:

Trailer: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/quake ... rage/54146

Tom Willits: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/creat ... rage/54283



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Infernis
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PostPosted: 08-20-2009 12:41 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Found some screenshots here. There was also a preview in Dutch stating that they were impressed.



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Hipshot
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PostPosted: 08-20-2009 12:50 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Does id Tech 5 not use brushes at all?



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d3mol!t!on
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PostPosted: 08-20-2009 02:04 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Not sure if I'll get killed for saying this, but the graphics remind me of CryEngine 2. What'll be most interesting is to see how they do DOOM 4 on this engine, if indeed that is what they'll actually be using. Impressive none-the-less.
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obsidian
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PostPosted: 08-20-2009 07:18 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


id Tech 5 still uses brushes among other things.

Doom 4 will also likely be using the same engine (though IIRC, Carmack said he would do some additional work on it) and it will have a much richer graphics fidelity to it. I'm looking at the Rage screenshots and I find it difficult to fathom what Doom 4 is supposed to look like.



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Hipshot
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PostPosted: 08-20-2009 07:21 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Because a friend said that it doesn't use brushes any more, but I find that hard to believe, that iD just would abandon it just like that. And, yes, Doom 4, that was what I was thinking of, if they are going for more of a Doom 1/2 direction, then it would probably be build around something brush based (even though it doesn't have too).



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Last edited by Hipshot on 04-01-2010 04:36 PM, edited 2 times in total.
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-Dash-
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PostPosted: 04-01-2010 04:13 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I prefer the ID Tech 3 tbh, even if it's dated. ID Tech 4 and 5 have this dark bulging look to them which is atrocious.

I realize it's semi-realistic, but everything looks like it's covered in feces.
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o'dium
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PostPosted: 04-02-2010 02:41 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Learn how to light then.
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obsidian
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PostPosted: 04-02-2010 06:47 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


1) You just bumped a year old thread. Don't do that unless you have a something valuable to add to the discussion (for example, new info or trailer about Rage).
2) id Tech 4 can be well lit, I don't know what you mean by, "dark bulging look". Shadow volumes aren't necessarily dark, and bulging isn't usually a word used to describe light.
3) id Tech 5 uses a completely different lighting system. It will likely use a hybrid of what looks like pre-rendered lighting (kind of like id Tech 3 lightmaps, but probably baked into the megatextures) and dynamic pixel buffer shadows.



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seremtan
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PostPosted: 04-02-2010 11:32 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


tbh, looking again at that shot on page 1 again, what i notice now is those bits that don't seem as polished as crysis: the gravel slope on the left looks flat (in crysis a similar surface spawns rock/pebble models) and the foreground grass looks a bit natty
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AEon
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PostPosted: 04-02-2010 02:54 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I find it disappointing that after all these years id engines simply will not work properly with massive vegetation... see Crysis or Far Cry.

And when Carmack was wondering about some area in Rage that was running really badly, and it turned out the artists had added too much grass, flimsy as it is... this does not bode well. Oh well... I'll admit the desert does have a certain aesthetic but why not put some research into vegetation?
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PostPosted: 04-02-2010 03:01 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Can't iDtech5 handle much vegetation? Where did you find this out Aeon?



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o'dium
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PostPosted: 04-03-2010 02:37 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I think its more the issue of "why should it?" to be fair... I mean peopel slated id Tech 4 for its lack of light and terrain, but thats what the engine was MADE for.

If the next id game is set in a jungle you can be pretty damn sure they would bring the rain and make it look totally current, but the simple truth is why bother spending man hours on something when your main team isn't going to make use of it? If third parties need something adding, they will add it (shadow maps, advanced programs, megatexture, all things that D3 never supported but the engine could with some work).

I have this feeling after Doom 4 and Rage have faded a bit, they will announce Quake 5. It just makes sense... And I have this feeling they will return to the gothic roots of the first over the sci fi pap of Quake 4 (Q2 was amazing, just none of its style or soul was in Q4). But if thats the case, then don't expect any lush jungles or cities just yet :p

Speaking of cities, Doom 4 is set on Earth, so its very likely we will get some new advanced form of vis/hinting to cope with large city scapes.
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dONKEY
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PostPosted: 04-04-2010 05:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


TBH I couldn't care less what it can or can't do. Unless there is a sea change in attitude from game design companies. I'm reluctant to support any game with my hard earned cash that once it's released will have no support in terms of SDKs from the developers. There is no 'official' support for QuakeLive custom content, so why should I believe amateur developers will be supported for newer engines. Quake 4 almost killed the modding and mapping communities. Let's hope idtech5 doesn't complete the job.
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o'dium
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PostPosted: 04-04-2010 06:03 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Quake 4 had the same level of support as Doom 3, as ETQW...? How did it nearly "kill" the modding scene...? You want a game with ZERO support, look at the new Wolf. Terrible game with terrible MP that could be fixed if there was a decent SDK but nothing, AT ALL, was released. I think they only released a single patch, even...

It sounds more to me like you are used to making really old art, i.e. diffuse only textures, low poly models, lightmaps etc... To be honest, thats how you come over to me. "I can't be arsed to learn these new and improved methods so I'll just say they are terrible.".

Sure theres a huge learning curve and yeah, these days mappers MUST be modellers to a certain extent as brush work has gone pretty much the way of the dinosour for detail in maps (Now we use brushwork as caulk based hulls). But being against something because its more advanced than you can adapt to is a bit silly. I can't do half the stuff some engines display, but it just motivates me to learn. If you close the door before you even open it, how will you ever even know what works and what doesnt?

As an example, I work on OD, everybody here knows that, and at times yeah its hard work. But I also work on low poly DS/iPhone games, and its ALSO hard work, just two different ends of the scale. Both are fun.

I totally agree that more SDK's are needed but you need to see this from a $$$ point of view... Why bother releasing something that wont make you any more money, and will only be used by a tiny percentage of people...? You and I love SDK's, but average joe wont give two shits about it, and thats where the money is.
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AEon
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PostPosted: 04-04-2010 07:32 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I have the feeling the real issue is actually the popularity of the games. And the last id games did not have much impact... I am not saying they were bad - I played D3 and Q3 and liked the new ideas - but you need a *huge* fanbase to get something done in the community. If folks are only "mildly" inspired by playing the game, chances are they won't even bother looking into content creation... even more so, if the next AAA game is only a few weeks away.

Well, we had the content creation process under discussion a while ago. Since things are getting more and more complex (not really the problem), but humongously time consuming, I guess there is nothing much that can be done.

BTW, what is OD? I am totally out of any current games, because the simply do not run on my 8-year-old PC.
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obsidian
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PostPosted: 04-04-2010 08:16 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


OD = OverDose, o'dium and Team Blur's perpetually developed game/mod. :p

Doom 3, Quake 4 and ETQW all had official SDK's and probably more documentation released initially than even Quake 3 (most of that documentation was built up by years worth of community members). While I agree that SDK's help provide a game with a bigger community, it's not the primary factor.

Both Doom 3 and Quake 4 sold well, but didn't develop much of a community following (thus you not hearing very much buzz about it post release) due to what I think is a lack of decent multiplayer. Single player games tend to promote more "closeted" players who will play through the single player campaigns once or twice and while they may really enjoy it, there is little need to go online and start up a community to talk about it.

Multiplayer games are by nature social, so you are more likely to have players on an online forum talking about the game, planning strategies, setting up matches, etc. This type of community is more likely to spawn a group of people willing to create custom content, so that they actually have a crowd of players to tailor to.



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MrLego
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PostPosted: 04-04-2010 10:05 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I agree, I think that the player community gets bored and leaves if there's not custom levels available when the novelty of the new game wears out.

If a games MP portion sucks then people get tired of it pretty fast and tend to move on.

When RTCW came out many of the Q3 mod community members were already in place and were eager to map for a new game - RTCW sustained a very healthy mod community for years. When Enemy Territory came out it was the same thing - and on top of that it was a free game. The MP game code was mature and all of those Q3 engine games were very popular.

Once D3 and Q4 hit the scene things slowed to a crawl - the built in editors and heavier use of models put a huge cramp in many peoples ability to crank out a level in a short amount of time. We went from a community knowledgable in an editor (Radiant) to something that was quite frankly, not all that user friendly. Because the MP portion was not up to par with the previous generations games, the hard core competition players went elsewhere.

Not everyone has access to a modelling program either, and while there are some free ones out there they never seem to be user friendly enough for the masses to easily adopt.

Quake Wars has one of the best SDK's of any game I own - the documentation and sample maps were online by the time the SDK was released. The game raised the bar for the mod community even more with the megatexture technology and large terrains.

I don't believe that much of the Q3 community made the leap into QW, either they don't like the game or maybe aren't willing to take the game out of the corridors and hallways and bring it outdoors.

A lack of a SDK for Wolfenstein is probably just Activision saying FY to id and the community as a parting gesture.

The mod communities will probably even get smaller because most of the upcoming games seem to be sized for the console crowd - six or eight per team and developed for some kind of Microsoft based platform - the Linux side of the world gets left outside looking in.

A lack of Linux base based servers will also kill many of those clan-sponsored game servers that keep these communities alive, either for playing the new content on or for map input and testing. Almost every game server in the past nine years that I have run and/or paid for has been Linux based - the MS ones were always more expensive and more prone to crashing.



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Foo
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PostPosted: 04-04-2010 06:15 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


MrLego wrote:
I don't believe that much of the Q3 community made the leap into QW, either they don't like the game or maybe aren't willing to take the game out of the corridors and hallways and bring it outdoors.

Completely different games, the only similarity is the name. There's far more crossover with games like Warsow and UT2004, hence you'll find more players jumped off to those games than QW.
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dONKEY
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PostPosted: 04-05-2010 08:18 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


o'dium wrote:
It sounds more to me like you are used to making really old art, i.e. diffuse only textures, low poly models, lightmaps etc... To be honest, thats how you come over to me. "I can't be arsed to learn these new and improved methods so I'll just say they are terrible.".

Absolutely not the case.
I even have tutorials on my site regarding the use of models and modelling apps to map with, but I'm not getting drawn into all that.

No 'complete' functioning multiplayer I think is the real point, and good part of what I mean by that is bots.
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fKd
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PostPosted: 04-06-2010 12:15 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


so back to rage, i have a feeling this game will have little to no impact on the gaming world.
my spin is that its just gonna be a bunch of the same old, same old... this is not really based on any one thing... just a feeling...

thoughts?
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MKJ
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PostPosted: 04-06-2010 12:46 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


it has been rather underwhelming till now.
could also be just me
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AEon
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PostPosted: 04-06-2010 02:09 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I have the feeling Rage will turn out to be quite an interesting visual experience, much like DOOM 3 (even though I hate horror and "dark"). It should be fun to explore the more open world of Rage, possibly even interesting to find all those "gimmicks" (i.e. scripted stuff in those races), but once you have played the game twice or so, it will probably simply wither away on your HD, much like Quake IV did.

Well, I'll have to buy new hardware to play the game anyway, so that is presently quite a big show stopper for me.
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axbaby
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PostPosted: 04-06-2010 10:27 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Rage will benefit from absorbing what was fun with BorderLands and a lot of the newish titles that have come out recently.
They will learn what was bad with multiplayer game servers recently and the gameplay.
I suspect Rage will introduce something new to WOW us and will miss a key feature that the mod and map community will jump on.
That is where we come in but the solo map projects are history unless your super dedicated and have a lot of time to stare at the screen.

Good managing of these map teams "egos" will be the key to finishing the map.
most sleek map projects will probably fail or will be completed a year late.



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Infernis
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PostPosted: 04-07-2010 05:14 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I sure hope that Rage will be an instant classic, but looking at the past, I expect little. There hasn’t been a good ID game [internally made or licensed] since RTCW and ET. Doom 3, while impressive, lacked in gameplay. Somebody said once: “Doom 3 is out” to which the other replied: “Cool, when are they going to make a game for it?”. It’s the best description I can use for that game. Quake IV was mediocre at best. The entire game just felt hollow and the only thing I remember is the part where you get Stroggified. So much for a big impression. Quake 2 however, I can still remember from start to finish. QW isn’t my kind of game, so I can’t judge that but the new Wolfenstein was really a low point in the series. Although there was some excellent leveldesign, the entire game felt clunky and had some of the worst AI in years. I didn’t even bother to finish it. Then there's the fact that none of the mentioned games had any MP that was worthwhile. Of course, this is just my opinion.

Most of you got good points. You usually need MP in order to create an online community. If you want custom content, there will always be people who figure things out themselves but proper support in ways of documentation or an SDK by the developer would certainly help. It’s not that people don’t want to learn new stuff, it’s just that things get increasingly more complex and most of all time consuming. Not everyone has the same motivation or the luxury of enough free time. All these factors combined: more games to choose from, more complex games, less support, less online community is basically why big mapping forums are a thing of the past.



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dONKEY
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PostPosted: 04-07-2010 06:17 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I think axbaby and Inf make the crucial point. Even with idtech4 games, many of us that did take the learning curve just don't have the time to produce work on our own. For the same reason we can not commit to 'map teams', or simply don't want to commit to a team effort. It really isn't that people are lazy. Because new tech requires so much time to create content, what I personally found was by the time one got to grips with designing for a game, the fan base had dwindled and moved on. Like most of us here I make stuff for myself, but saying that if I'm going to spend 3 months or more on a map I'd rather do it for a game that I know 1000 or more people will bother to look at it for, rather than 10.
Perhaps Rage will be awesome. I really hope so. But I ain't counting on it.
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obsidian
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PostPosted: 04-07-2010 07:55 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I enjoyed the Doom 3 and Quake 4 SP missions.

ETQW was a great game, played that solidly for a good 2 years and ranked top 500 internationally. I still hop on a server every now and then casually.

I'm not too sure what to think of Wolfenstein (the new one by Raven). It looks as if the game was developed by two teams, each group working on completely different levels. In some of the levels, gameplay and visuals were amazing (the underground hanger, the castle) while other maps were completely blah.

I think the Rage SP will be pretty fun. It'll be a classic shoot-em-up with some driving and RPG tossed in. I don't expect much from an MP perspective. Coop (not sure if it will have coop) would be interesting.

I'm hoping Doom 4 will present a better MP experience in the package. id Software's SP games are still pretty good, but what they lack is a really solid MP title (besides Quake Live).



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