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Topic Starter Topic: [ALPHA/BETA] 13head "Headache"

Mercenary
Mercenary
Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Posts: 205
PostPosted: 03-17-2015 07:45 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


13head - Headache ALPHA1

This release contains only the playable interior, not yet the outer head model. No bot support yet.



Some more shots:
http://sst13.de/wip/head30.jpg
http://sst13.de/wip/head31.jpg
http://sst13.de/wip/head32.jpg
http://sst13.de/wip/head33.jpg
http://sst13.de/wip/head34.jpg
http://sst13.de/wip/head35.jpg

It's a small FFA or 1vs1 map with an unconventional layout.
Don't expect too much gameplay, because of the (relative) small size and radial layout.

There's lot of concrete, giant rusty nails and some organic stuff like: moving flesh, bloody teleporter and colon like jumppads - farting you to higher levels. :D


Things to do:
- proper clipping (it's very raw atm)
- better hints
- find a meaningful use for the 4 boards around the RL
- some dirt on the glass edges below RL
- a decal under YA
- better ambiente sounds
- another skybox
- bot support

Known (BSP-scaling) bugs:
- there's a weird patch LOD behavior. They drop into a smaller LOD if you look straight up or down.
- the engine don't like 10-units steps. :mad: It's always a bit jerky moving upstairs.


Please give me some feedback about:
- item placement
- general stuff :D


Download Alpha1 (6 MB)
PK3: map-13head_a1.pk3
ZIP: map-13head_a1.zip


Enjoy testing... sst13



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Last edited by sst13 on 03-18-2015 05:38 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 488
PostPosted: 03-17-2015 10:40 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


awesome! i've been waiting forever for this to come out.

i get a Headache just thinking about editing this map in radiant. it must have been a huge effort and i am pretty blown away by it. this is definitely the best radial map i have seen in Q3.

i do wish you would have made more of an effort to distinguish the levels using more diverse texturing. (i putting more effort into this in my own work and i am now very conscious of it in other people's maps.) i'm sure you are just trying to keep it more about the geo, but i feel you could go a long way using different tints in the concrete. maybe desaturated orange/purple/green would work without conflicting with the human-head theme. how about a dark purple sky? you could do something like this (with darker colors obvy).

googly eyes behind the cage is awesome.

the top level (shot 35) doesn't quite feel like it's working yet. i think you should make the ceiling pieces jut out higher over the walls, maybe 64-96u, to break up the horizontal line. i'd also make the sky much stronger and use the -dirty compile option to make the shadows stand out more.

you could make the circular lights bulge out like i've done here.

the colon bouncers make me wanna :puke:... in a good way though. i really like the particle effects coming out of the bouncers, teles, and vents. i think they could be easily reused as realistic smoke just by making the texture greyscale. i always wanted smoke assets but never could figure out how to make them.

no bots yet? are you planning to include them ever? it can be hard to test IP without them. i will come back later with IP suggestions because i think you can improve on it a lot.

i'd say it still feels a bit unfinished right now, but with more work on texturing the visuals could be top-notch. overall, amazing work. extremely unique. great job.




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Theftbot
Theftbot
Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 465
PostPosted: 03-17-2015 11:56 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


was expecting:
Image
but very nice GJ




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Boink!
Boink!
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4493
PostPosted: 03-18-2015 12:17 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


From running about a bit, it took me a while to actually appreciate that if something looks simple, it need not actually be so to create. Amazing that you were able to line up things on curves... though some of it seems to be brushwork approximating curves? And models? A lot to be learned here.

The layout seems to be challenging to learn... I noted a few odd jumps that bots will not be able to make. Due to Reflex I am becoming slightly used to that, but in Q3A it's still notable. For quite a while I thought the top level was strictly deco and inaccessible, until I did some noclip flying about. I seem to have taken the same paths and TPs again and again, not making it to the top level.

I see a black seam between the floor and the new TPs (models?).

I have to admit, the organic slurpy geometry, I never really liked in Q3A.

It may just have been a temporary illusion, but can it be that some of the grey textures are pretty low-res or slightly stretched? Some colour variation as Pat suggests might indeed be another thing to look into.

From a "vis" point of you seem to using a lot of patches and apparently also models? So you may need to work on a caulk hull some more? Though the openness of the map will make any hint/vis optimization "impossible".




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surfaceparm nomarks
surfaceparm nomarks
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 1005
PostPosted: 03-18-2015 12:33 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I also agree with what Pat said. It's going to be tough to get color into this one without destroying the atmosphere though.
I think a different non-gray skybox could be a good first step or at least something that generates sharper contours. I'd possibly use something that allows you to have a nice emphasis on the center point as seen in your first shot (maybe a sharper drop shadow of the ceilling opening with some subtil sun color?).
Apart from that I would probably not toy around too much with color. I think it could be nice to have more detailed item spawns (maybe models) with some splashes of color by using lamps (like LEDs, though those shouldn't emit too much colored light and go together with the other lamps you are using). It would also create a illusion of a more detailed environment if you use some small scale geometry on those.

Never the less, absolutely impressive piece! I love the monolithic atmosphere.

Edit: Just had another idea. The complementary color of your organic red structure is green. This is quite crazy but what if you went all AEdm7 with this (while keeping your organic red)? Though I'm 99% sure that this is a measure which would kill performance entirely hehe



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Boink!
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: 03-18-2015 01:20 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


:)

I did note that adding Sock's POM vines immediately turns a dead area or crete into a living map where nature is encroaching. Interestingly I never thought of green as a complementary colour, but as a decoration that looks right, though cityy's thinking is more rational.

Though I have the feeling that adding greenery might make the map "friendly". And the map does not look friendly at all presently. So there would be a clash of themes, of sorts.




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Mercenary
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Joined: 15 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: 03-18-2015 07:49 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I totally forgot to mention that there is no bot support yet. I made this release for LAN testing with my friends 1 week ago. Due to the complex curve clipping, aas compile takes ages. I'm going to fix this with an extra bot.map, also trying to force the bots to jump over the 2 gaps in front of the upper TP and to the MH.


@Pat Howard:
I'm trying my best to color code the 3 levels a bit more.
The skybox and the low ceiling is only temporary. It's just a cap on the top. In the final release you won't bounce your head rocket jumping on the upper level.
I'm already using "-dirty -dirtscale 2". Also tried higher values with worse results.
The round lights are bulging already (1 unit) :p
The smoke shader is made for universal usage. The color is set by "rgbGen const" to produce any color you want. Search for "textures/13head/smoke_vert1" up to "textures/13head/smoke_vert6".
You can also slow down the animation by reducing the repeats per second values for "deformVertexes move", "tcMod stretch sawtooth" and "alphaGen wave".


@AEon:
It's a mixture of brushwork, lot of curves and some models.
The top level can be accessed by 2 TPs, the stairs and a JP.
Can you make a screenshot of the black seam? It's maybe some clampmap issue.
Most textures are in 0.25 scale but some of the ceiling textures are still 0.5. I'm going to fix this.
There is already a caulk hull, lined up with curves.


@cityy:
I'm definitely going to make a non-gray skybox.
A few days earlier I saw Maze Runner and had the same idea, to fill the map with some greenery. Especially in the upper level. Maybe I'll give it a try...


So, how about the items? I'm thinking of swapping the railgun with the GL?
There are also 2 camping spots. One above the GL at the nail-bars. And the other one on the rim above the RA jumppad...



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I'm the dude!
I'm the dude!
Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 03-18-2015 09:45 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm not so convinced about adding vegetation to the map, I like the current starkness. The concept here is surrealism, adding greenery implies something back into realism. Balancing colour schemes often works well if you're trying to make a nice feeling environment, but sometimes what you need is an imbalance that makes things deliberately slightly uncomfortable as in the case of a nightmarish looking map (which this would qualify for). I'd try and be creative and do something unexpected and keep it surreal. You are after all, playing inside someone's head, so experiment and go wild!

Go look at some pictures by Dali and other art in surrealism. I imagine something as far out as anorexic elephants and melting clocks floating in the skybox. :) Perhaps something Freudesque or otherwise related to the mind. What's this guy thinking? The place is in the mind, the mind is in the place.



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Boink!
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PostPosted: 03-18-2015 09:52 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


On the more realistic surreal side... electrical discharges may enhance the SciFi element of the map.




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surfaceparm nomarks
surfaceparm nomarks
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: 03-18-2015 11:09 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@obs: Yes, I think you might be right on that one.

@AEon: Personally, I don't feel like this has any scifi vibe to it right now. Concrete and scifi generally don't go well together for me. I think scifi should rely on light materials and functional modular pieces as they would be used in space ships, flying fortresses and so on and so forth.



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 03-18-2015 11:49 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


vegetation might work but i'd much rather see a slightly-more-colored version of what he already has. i doubt i've ever suggested this to anyone before, but you should google pictures of cadavers and stuff to find color inspiration. here is a picture i found with some good colors. (don't look if you're queezy.) note the light, desaturated blues, greens, and oranges. i'm not saying it won't be difficult, but if you could figure out how to diversify the map with these colors it could be a great result.

p.s. i also noticed you have a lot more flesh on the ground floor than anywhere else. i would focus on getting more red in the map before anything else.

tbh i'm not sure how the player is ever going to see the head model while playing, but i'll leave it up to you :)




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Insane Quaker
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Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: 03-18-2015 01:13 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Top-notch effort sir! I was afraid it would be merely a concept map but the gameplay is well planned too... I especially like the ability to spam rockets down from the top beams around RL! The teles help to keep the game's pace up nicely too. The geometry looks painstakingly well refined... it must have taken ages to get right.

Here's a couple changes I'd suggest:

Also, I think the map could use a quad spawn during FFA... maybe replace RA with quad and add an extra YA around RL tele room? And I'm still not convinced by the 'head' theme when the map doesn't look anything like a head, despite it following the contours of your head model.




Last edited by AEon on 03-19-2015 12:30 AM, edited 1 time in total.Reason: Images fixed to URL, did not work as direct image links.

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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 488
PostPosted: 03-20-2015 01:25 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


here's my opinion on the armors: YA where the GL is now, swap MH and RA. are you sure about no lightning? i think it would play fine in this map.

also, i don't think the bottom-to-top tele needs to be two-way. i think it should just go from lower to upper.

for a seemingly tiny map, the layout is very complex and takes a while to learn. :up:




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