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Topic Starter Topic: Q4 textures and maps for Q3

Grunt
Grunt
Joined: 22 Dec 2014
Posts: 58
PostPosted: 07-11-2015 04:48 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I edited this topic and added description how to convert maps from Q4 and D3.
Notification!
It is not about EULA and such other questions. It's just description of a technology. It can be useful or not, but it works and it's enough for me. I did it for my amusement.

Instruments:

1. QuArK 6.6.0 Beta 6 from here http://quark.sourceforge.net/
2. GTKRadiant 1.6.3 (not 1.6.4, as its Surface Inspector works incorrectly) or a good old Q3Radiant 2.0.2
3. Q3MAP2 (q3map2_fs_20g or 2.5.17)
4. BSPC (2.1i)
5. Paint.NET

Algorithm:
1. Extract all files from all the *.pk4 files in <DOOM3>\base or <QUAKE4>\q4base
2. Open <yourmap>.map in QuArK and save it as 'QuArK map (*.qkm)' and further as 'Structured text for hand-editing (*.qkm)
3. Close the map in QuArK and open it in Notepad (or WordPad) and replace Game = "Quake 4" by Game = "Quake 3"
4. Re-open the map in QuArK (now it will be Quake3 game mode) and save it as 'Quake .map file (*.map)' into your work folder, for example, <QUAKE3>\baseq3\maps
5. Open the map with in Notepad (or WordPad) and remove all 'textures/' as Q3 uses short path for textures names (NB! as Q4 has folder 'textures/mptextures/' you should replace '/mptextures/' by '/mp/' previously and rename the folder 'textures/mptextures/' to 'textures/mp/' )
6. Compile the map with Q3MAP2 (with -bsp key only). It's just a raw compilation to get list of necessary textures (and shaders)
7. Search necessary shaders through <DOOM3>\base\materials or <QUAKE4>\q4base\materials to define layers to make necessary textures
8. How to make new textures see my manual below
9. Write shaders for complex textures and place it into <QUAKE3>\baseq3\scripts and insert the name of your shader file into shaderlist.txt
10. Open the map in GTKRadiant (NB! change default project settings to work with brush primitives) and edit it as you wish
11. Compile the map with Q3MAP2 (to make *.bsp) and BSPC (to make *.aas - for bots)

I want to share my experience how to adapt Q4 textures for Q3. I use Paint.NET for this.
Steps (see screenshots):

1. Open the chosen file <>_local.tga
Image
Image

2. Desaturate it
Image
Image

3. Invert colors
Image

4. Add the file <>_d.tga as another layer
Image
Image
Image

5. Adjust its properties - OVERLAY
Image
Image

6. Add the file <>_h.tga as another layer
Image
Image

7. Adjust its properties - OVERLAY
Image
Image

8. Add the file <>_s.tga as another layer
Image
Image

9. Adjust its properties - COLOR DODGE
Image
Image

10. Save the file <>.jpg (or with another necessary name)
Image

NOTICE: This algorithm can be used to create *.jpg textures (without alpha channel).

This algorithm can be used for converting D3 files too, though its texture set is organized worse and in fact is composed from some different sets (it can be seen in different file mask for heightmap textures).




Last edited by V1979 on 11-09-2015 09:44 AM, edited 8 times in total.

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Old Skool'
Old Skool'
Joined: 02 May 2002
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PostPosted: 07-11-2015 05:57 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


None of your pictures work.




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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: 07-11-2015 07:31 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


V1979, better could be done if you use some of general image hosting sites (for example imgur.com) instead of using local hosting in your country... Most of people block russian domains as they are often source of malware.



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Grunt
Grunt
Joined: 22 Dec 2014
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PostPosted: 07-12-2015 03:12 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I reduced pictures' size and uploaded them to imgur.com




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Commander
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Joined: 10 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: 07-12-2015 03:17 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


This is a good tutorial, but not really necessary since ioquake3 supports normal/specular maps.




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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: 07-12-2015 03:25 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thanks :) Andeh, not everyone use ioquake3 and q3map2 supports baking lightmap based on normalmap, which do not require to use ioquake3. For speculars, it is much worse as you have to make another stage that reflects the specular glares as environment map (tcGen environment).



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Grunt
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PostPosted: 07-12-2015 03:35 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It's really good, if ioquake3 supports normal/specular maps. Is there any example of such shaders?
Some thoughts:
1. Not everybody plays ioquake (I don't play it though I have it).
2. Converting textures (to *.jpg) allows to reduce *.pk3 size, though some visual effects are limited.
3. Some players set picmip >0, thus many efforts to improve visual aspects are useless.




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Trainee
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Joined: 20 May 2015
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PostPosted: 07-12-2015 05:13 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


nice!
going to try and make that process it into a script for imagemagick :)




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Commander
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PostPosted: 07-16-2015 03:37 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Everyone should use ioquake3 since theres literally no drawbacks to using it. Also CZghost, normalmaps are different to lightmaps. q3map2 doesn't handle normalmaps. They are done purely through material (.mtr) files




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Mercenary
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Joined: 06 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: 07-16-2015 04:03 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Q3map2 does fake normals by baking the detail into the lightmap.

And ioq3 is buggy as hell sometimes, at least the forks I use. There's nothing enticing enough in stock ioq3 to convince me to get rid of my awesome features in my engine.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/acxgim6a3assxly/q3map2_normals.gif

I used to have an actual lightmap on my dropbox but idk where it is from my phone.




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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: 07-16-2015 04:10 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That's quite wrong, Andeh. First, Quake 3 does not have support for mtr (I do not count ioquake3) and last version of q3map2 can handle the normalmap to bake lights that wrap around the fake bumbs to create visual effect similar to the Q4 one. Sure you have to make finer lightgrid to allow this feature. Also, it's not so much known feature and it needs much tweaking, so it is not used so much by mappers.

Also, ioquake3 is quite buggy. I can't control the brightness to get rid of the overall darkness. The entire screen is too dark. Also it does not support the numpad.



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Theftbot
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PostPosted: 07-16-2015 10:00 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote





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Insane Quaker
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Joined: 05 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: 07-16-2015 10:30 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I like what you're doing, but doesn't this violate the EULA of both quake 3 and quake 4?




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Commander
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PostPosted: 07-17-2015 01:31 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


ioquake3 isnt buggy at all for me, not sure what version you guys are using...

CZ - I know Quake 3 does not support mtr, I never said it did. ioquake3 does though, and I still think theres no benefit to sticking with vanilla Quake 3.




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I'm the dude!
I'm the dude!
Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 07-17-2015 08:25 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


VolumetricSteve wrote:
I like what you're doing, but doesn't this violate the EULA of both quake 3 and quake 4?


Yes indeed, and this is certainly frowned upon by the community. Maps and assets being shared that violate EULA's will be blacklisted here and on other networks like LvL.



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Theftbot
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PostPosted: 07-17-2015 09:56 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


LvL and Worldspawn Archive dont care for copyrights.




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surfaceparm nomarks
surfaceparm nomarks
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PostPosted: 07-17-2015 11:00 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Everyone should though!



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The hell good boy
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PostPosted: 07-18-2015 01:57 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


They don't care until someone report it.



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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
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PostPosted: 07-18-2015 02:11 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AndehX wrote:
ioquake3 isnt buggy at all for me, not sure what version you guys are using...

CZ - I know Quake 3 does not support mtr, I never said it did. ioquake3 does though, and I still think theres no benefit to sticking with vanilla Quake 3.

Well, I downloaded and tried out last version available for Windows 7. Running with nVidia GeForce 9800 GT videocard.



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Theftbot
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PostPosted: 07-18-2015 09:09 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote





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Grunt
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PostPosted: 07-19-2015 07:42 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


When I started this topic, I just wanted to share my experience how to make textures for Q3 from set of Q4 textures.
I didn't thought that it could provoke discussion about EULA, ioquake features etc.
My method allows to make textures for standard Q3 engine (v.1.32c), the most commonly used release. To use normal maps for Q3, I would suggest using q3bers engine, as it is compatible with other mods and has its own working shader syntax for bumpmapping.




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I'm the dude!
I'm the dude!
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PostPosted: 07-19-2015 05:47 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I have no issue with this tutorial. This set of techniques can be applied for valid or personal situations which respect EULAs. What becomes questionable is distribution of assets. It's just a note bringing awareness to others about why this remains an important issue.



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True Nightmare
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PostPosted: 07-20-2015 10:35 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@V1979: don't convert normal maps using desaturation, that results in incorrectly interpreted grey-scale tonal values in the bump/height maps - light-blue is not synonymous with light-grey.



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Grunt
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PostPosted: 07-20-2015 10:48 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Kat, I am satisfied with my results. See screenshots or just repeat my steps.




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True Nightmare
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PostPosted: 07-20-2015 11:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


V1979 wrote:
Kat, I am satisfied with my results. See screenshots or just repeat my steps.
Will do... when wanting to know how NOT to do it ;)



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Grunt
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PostPosted: 07-20-2015 11:26 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Kat, you can make your manual how to do it correctly and (or) show us (in comparison) advantages/disadvantages of both our methods.

As I can see, Paint.NET desaturates bluish normalmaps correctly enough, without losing detalisation. Inverting colors allows to make illusion of correct relief.




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True Nightmare
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PostPosted: 07-21-2015 03:43 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


V1979 wrote:
Kat, you can make your manual how to do it correctly and (or) show us (in comparison) advantages/disadvantages of both our methods.

As I can see, Paint.NET desaturates bluish normalmaps correctly enough, without losing detalisation. Inverting colors allows to make illusion of correct relief.
It's explained in the linked article with pictures and text ;)



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Gibblet
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PostPosted: 07-21-2015 03:44 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@Theftbot What is wrong with PhobosBase1 - Prohecy Of Doom (linked to my comment).




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Immortal
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PostPosted: 07-21-2015 06:50 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It was a map with textures lifted from Elite Force 2 which broke my little mapping heart as I'd just completed a map using them. I'd reached out to the author of the map but never got any reply.

Still salty after all these years :olo:




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Gibblet
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PostPosted: 07-21-2015 06:55 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Re: PhobosBase1 - Prohecy Of Doom - If someone knows for sure if the textures *are* from Elite Force 2, then I'll remove the map. I'm not removing a map if it is only speculation however.




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Grunt
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PostPosted: 07-21-2015 10:14 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Kat, I think that the article is not enough. The author took some graphic editor (Corel Photo Paint x5 released in 2010), which desaturates normalmaps badly, and proclaimed that only nJob (or something like this) convert normalmaps correctly.
As I can see (and you - in my screenshots) Paint.NET does it correctly enough, moreover, the 2nd layer lays on such a "relief" well.




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Gibblet
Gibblet
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PostPosted: 07-22-2015 01:49 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@Theftbot: For the record, V1979's map "Over The Edge" (vq4dm7lite) was recently added to the map queue at ..::LvL. It has now been removed for copyright violations.

V1979's map is not the only map that has been submitted to ..::LvL that has never progressed further than the map queue. I'm sure it will not be the last either.

Please don't spread shit and crap on the work of others without consultation first. I will remove illegal content once it has been established to be illegal. Such as redistributing Q4 textures - even if normalmaps, spec and diffused textures have been merged to create a new texture.

The contact page on ..::LvL is easy to find. Please feel welcome to use it if you spot something questionable.




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Grunt
Grunt
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PostPosted: 07-22-2015 06:06 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


As I can see, you prefer to discuss problems of copyright publicly, unfortunately.
If you think that there is a problem with the licence agreement, it would be better to discuss it more calmly, I mean, without such words as "shit and crap". Moreover, I explained you most technical details in my letters, as a token of my readiness to cooperate.
In fact, the problem is my wrong understanding of the licence agreement.
ex.: https://github.com/liflg/quake.4_1.4.2- ... icense.txt

I mean its article 2 "Permitted New Creations."
Id Software grants to you the non-exclusive and limited right to create for the Software (except any Software code) your own modifications (the "New Creations") that shall operate only with the Software (but not any demo, test, or other version of the Software, and not with QUAKE 4(tm) independent of the Software). You may include within the New Creations certain textures and other images (the "Software Images") from the Software.

Earlier, I understood that words "(but not any demo, test, or other version of the Software, and not with QUAKE 4(tm) independent of the Software)" mean that New Creations could operate with with the Software (Quake4) AND other version of the Software.
But after some notices here I decided to retranslate the licence agreement and I have to conclude that those words mean that operating with other versions of the Software is not permitted.

In fact, I agree, that if there are some problems, the map shall be removed. But I can't accept your words "don't spread shit and crap". I made some work to convert and adapt this map and textures, developed some technology. As I have written, I do conversions for fun, for my intellectual amusement and for free. If you find it wrong, it would be better to deny the map with indication of the terms that you find violated.




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I'm the dude!
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PostPosted: 07-22-2015 07:37 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The license for source code does NOT apply to everything else (such as textures). Those are still very much covered under copyright.



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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 07-22-2015 10:16 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


V1979 wrote:
In fact, I agree, that if there are some problems, the map shall be removed. But I can't accept your words "don't spread shit and crap".


I think Tigger's post was entirely in response to Theftbot, and the "shit and crap" was a referral to Theftbot publicly shaming your map because of copyright infringement. I read Tigger's post as a request to discuss such matters more privately. I certainly did not read it like him saying you were releasing shit and crap (your map and textures).

Reread his post and I think you'll come to the same conclusion. If not, maybe Tigger can elaborate on what he really meant.




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