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Topic Starter Topic: Shad3dm2 - Deep Freeze - Release Canidate 1
Shad0wdane
Gibblet
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: 07-04-2005 08:39 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Haven't posted here in a while.. in fact my old nickname seemed to have gotten lost when the forum was restored. And the reactivate link never sent me an email to reactivate my old account.

Anyway.. my Q3 map is complete and needs some testing. I do know the bots need some work still, but I wanted to get this level out for people to play it. This level is a port of my Quake 2 map - Deep Freeze, which you can see or download here:
http://www.planetquake.com/shadowdane/maps/deepfrz.htm

But your not here to download a Q2 map, but still its nice to see the original for compairison. As its quite a drastic change.

Here are a few pics (click for larger view):
Image
Image
Image

The map Download:
http://shadowdane.shackspace.com/misc/shad3dm2_rc1.zip

The map features a custom music track that is why the d/l is a little on the larger size.. most likely the final version will have a seperate download for the music.
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Anwulf
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PostPosted: 07-04-2005 09:00 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The dl is 19Mb.

If you're going to add custom music, do it as part of the final release, not as part of the testing phase.

I wonder whether you could upload a music-free version for testing. I'm currently being annoyed by the on-again off-again dl and the dl speed which has been jumping around like a madman with his willy on fire. It's going to take more effort than it's worth to get this one, although the screenshots say the map is worth looking at.

And now the dl has died altogether.
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Shad0wdane
Gibblet
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PostPosted: 07-04-2005 09:21 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


hmm.. download works fine here 1200kb/sec no drop outs or speed problems, sounds like your ISP is having problems. As the server is quite fast... and not giving anyone else who I've given this link any problems. And sorry 19mb isn't that large in this day and age when game demos top 600+ mb. I'd give your ISP a call if your having connection drop outs.

Here is the music-less download:
http://shadowdane.shackspace.com/misc/s ... omusic.zip (6mb)
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o'dium
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PostPosted: 07-04-2005 10:02 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Dont add music to test maps, simple as that. I have a 4meg pipe, and i get downloads fine, but i saw "test map" and "19 meg" and though WTF?

From your shots, i can already tell your lighting looks very odd, it has no atmosphere. Something is very lacking from the shots. Its got no mood, no feeling.
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Shad0wdane
Gibblet
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PostPosted: 07-04-2005 10:49 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


sorry about the music thing.. didnt think it would cause such a problem.

I dunno what you mean about the lighting comment your the first person who has said it doesn't look right or looks odd.. can you elaborate?? Everyone else who has looked at the map says the lighting is excellent. I dunno maybe actually load up the map and look around, things don't always look the same in pics as they do in game.

Maybe make some suggestions for improving it?
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Psyche911
True Nightmare
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PostPosted: 07-04-2005 11:26 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The download worked fine for me, never dropped below 300K/sec. It's a little big for a test map, but that's not really a problem for people on broadband.

Anyway, about the lighting; A lot of it is good, but there are certain areas in which it is lacking a little atmosphere as o'dium stated.

For example, this lighting has a really good feel to it:

[lvlshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Psyche911/shot0009.jpg[/lvlshot]

But compare that to these three areas, for example:

[lvlshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Psyche911/shot0010.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Psyche911/shot0011.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Psyche911/shot0008.jpg[/lvlshot]

They all seem a little lacking. Maybe if there was a little more color, or contrast, it would spice them up a bit.

I also didn't really get the "Deep Freeze" feeling in some of it. You might add a little more ice, but not a lot more. Just spread a little cold through the map.

I like it overall though, but if those areas were improved a little bit, I think it could be a much nicer map.

I didn't have any issues. The red armor is easy to miss when you're falling, but maybe that's not really a problem.

I really liked the quad passage. It should add a little competition and danger to the person going for the quad.

Keep up the good work. :icon14:
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pjw
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PostPosted: 07-04-2005 04:10 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Suggestions/Observations:

1) I like the layout quite a bit. Nice connectivity. Detailing is also cool. Nice pipework. Maybe break up that one cracked floor spot a bit more, or have a couple of loose bits on top and/or tilted at an angle?

2) I agree with Psyche911 re: the lighting--it certainly doesn't look bad IMO, but there are parts that look really, really nice and other parts that look sort of meh and bland. I'd be hesitant about adding color (or at least too much color) to this map, but yeah, a bit more contrast in spots...or something.

3) HOM/visible caulk under a light near the RG

4) Lots of sparklies/t-junction errors around bevel caps (e.g. at the top of jumppads) that should be cleaned up).

5) I like the way to get the Quad via teleporter. Right now you can also rocket jump up to the corner of the catwalk to get it, and you can also jump to the sloped brick directly underneath and the crouch, go the the back, and rocket jump up from there. It seems like you can *almost* get up to it with a regular jump from there. How about making that possible? You would still be begging for a rocket enema as you screwed around crouching and creeping along the sloped brick to get under/back there, so I don't think it would be too easy...

6) I love the jumppads/trench to the MH. Kickass. :)

7) Where's the camera that we're seeing the LG through? I don't see any camera down there... :)

8) Is there only snow/ice in that one spot (underneath the hole in the high corner)? Consider using a patchmesh for the snow and/or shadeangle in the shader--right now it looks blocky and assy. I'd also *really* like to see more areas of snow in here--it would really sell the whole COLD feeling that you're shooting for. And where the heck are the icicles?!? Needs icicles...maybe some big patch mesh ones in a few tucked-away corners where it wouldn't slam the tris too bad, and then some smaller alpha-channel ones hanging from pipes and edges in various spots? A couple more ceiling holes in spots would be cool too...

[Edit: I second the suggestion below for a YA. Also, how about something to mark that tele-dest? Some sort of little apparatus, or a (clipped-off) gap/crack in the wall or floor, or at least a scorch mark or something?]



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Last edited by pjw on 07-05-2005 07:09 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Anwulf
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PostPosted: 07-04-2005 06:17 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The problem is that I'm connecting from China. The school I'm at allegedly has broadband, but the dl speeds can often be every bit as bad as a modem. But I've no idea whether the school server is the problem or whether it's a problem at national level. It could well be both. Unfortunately, I can't phone up the idiots in government here and tell them what a bunch of infantile plonkers they are about the Internet. I don't even know the Chinese for "infantile plonkers".

Sometimes I get the dl speeds you mention, but all too often it's slow and clunky. Even websites don't always load or need multiple reloads.

No better luck trying to get the map this morning. It's still seizing up on me. Nothing I can do about it either, even if I knew how to say "Your sodding Internet connection sucks the dog's bollocks" in Chinese.
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pjw
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PostPosted: 07-04-2005 07:11 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I think you just don't *want* it bad enough. ;)

/me ducks...
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Oeloe
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PostPosted: 07-05-2005 02:46 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hmm, a bit too many trims and vertical beams for my taste. I would add some vertical pipes instead. The hallways are too cramped for a smooth map flow i think...

I do feel too that there isn't enough contrast in the map. Perhaps it's because those hallways are so cramped that there's no room for the light to spread; they're a bit overbright.

There are some nice cpm jumps in there right now, btw (to and from MH). :)
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^misantropia^
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PostPosted: 07-05-2005 05:49 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Oeloe wrote:
Hmm, a bit too many trims and vertical beams for my taste. I would add some vertical pipes instead. The hallways are too cramped for a smooth map flow i think...


Agreed.

Liked the lighting fine. Clear and crisp so you can keep a good view of your opponent.

Path from RA to MH is really short. I can get both within two seconds in CPMA, in VQ3 it takes only slightly longer. You might want to fit in a YA somewhere to counter the might of the RA.

And get rid of the Thumbs.db in your texture folders :)
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seremtan
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PostPosted: 07-05-2005 06:10 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Anwulf wrote:
No better luck trying to get the map this morning. It's still seizing up on me. Nothing I can do about it either, even if I knew how to say "Your sodding Internet connection sucks the dog's bollocks" in Chinese.


it's because every incoming packet is manually inspected by chinese customs
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Shad0wdane
Gibblet
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PostPosted: 07-05-2005 08:35 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Working on some of the changes you guys suggested as well as trying out some of the newer features in q3map2 as I was compiling it with a lot of the older commands. It's compiling right now, so should know soon if it helps or not...

I'm also going to make it so you can't jump to the MH from the upper ledge there.. or at least make it damn hard to get to. :)
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Don Carlos
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PostPosted: 07-05-2005 09:25 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Anwulf wrote:
...jumping around like a madman with his willy on fire.....


Im sorry dude, i usually just lurk but is funny shit :D
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Anwulf
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PostPosted: 07-05-2005 10:58 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


pjw wrote:
I think you just don't *want* it bad enough. ;)

/me ducks...


Well, it clearly doesn't want me bad enough (and what self-respecting map doesn't? [Dude, that's just sick. -ed.]). The dl won't even start this time.

Shouldn't you be delivering the post, pjw? I bet Quake IV went gold weeks ago, but it's been sitting in your trolley all this time. ;)

I'll be home next week. I can try then. Unless, of course, I'm having to get it through ntl...
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Shad0wdane
Gibblet
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PostPosted: 07-06-2005 08:54 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


ooohhh.. we got a new Quad Xeon 3.0ghz Server at work with 8GB of RAM. Just had to compile my map on it..
wow soo fast.. was able to run -light with this command line and the server barely broke a sweat! :D

-light -threads 8 -bounce 6 -dark -dirty -fast -gamma 1.2 -nocollapse -patchshadows -samples 4 -samplesize 4 -scale 1.25 -v

and yes you read that correctly.. 8 threads! :)
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StormShadow
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PostPosted: 07-06-2005 10:02 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Impressive!

Couple things:

1) Clipping issues - a lot of your walls are not clipped at all, and its easy to get caught up in every crack and crevice.

2) The path to the LG/RA seems a bit long.. and there are only 2 entrances to it - down the jpad or down the long, empty staircase/hallway. It just seems like that hallway is a bit of a dead area, and the flow to that section of the map could be improved somehow.

3) I think the lighting is pretty decent, but I do agree that in some areas it looks a little washed out. Your not using ambient light are you? I think if you lowered the overall light, the smaller individual lights would stand out more, and provide much more contrast to the map.

4) As suggested earlier, add more snow :) Maybe put small piles of it in the corners or something. You could pretty easilly add some icicles as well. Little things like that go a long way to creating atmosphere.

5) You can strafe jump from the PG to the mega, but its easy to get caught up on the ceiling - its quite low, and not clipped. Maybe you could change the celing area a bit to allow for a easier jump? Or maybe you want to make it difficult :)

Other than that the map is great - it could be a truly excellent DM map. The flow is excellent, the item placement is spot on, and the layout is very interesting. Its a shame that there are so few custom map DM servers anymore :(



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Shad0wdane
Gibblet
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PostPosted: 07-06-2005 09:01 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Been playing a lot with the lighting.. wanted to see what u guys thought.

Also as u can see in the new pic I'm adding a bit more snow threw out the map.. going to have to open a few more areas to the sky to actually allow for that though. As having snow in areas where no sky is around wouldn't make a ton of sense.

Old:
Image
New:
Image

Probably be easiest to see if you open each pic in a seperate Tab or Window and flip between the two images.
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seremtan
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PostPosted: 07-07-2005 12:53 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


can you crouch under those stairs?
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voodoochopstiks
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PostPosted: 07-07-2005 03:22 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Shadowdane: I doubt anyone would be irritated about the ceiling not being open there, could be dragged about by peoples feet, or some bulldozer who comes in and cleans up every once in a while or something. You have the benefit of quake 3 players not really regarding a map with alot of logic in the back of their head.



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sumatra
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PostPosted: 07-07-2005 05:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


seremtan wrote:
can you crouch under those stairs?

I think you are even able to walk under those stair, iirc there is a button to open a "secret" door...

@Shadowdane: Looks improved from the shots, but I want to watch it ingame :)

I also think you dont have to open the ceiling, it's quake and in this case it wouldn't increase the aestetics. Just gives it a nice touch.

Keep it going.

EDIT: Oh, ... and ye.. 8GB of RAM, either you are damn rich or you are freakin' insane :icon28: :icon28: :icon28: ......

sumatra
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Shad0wdane
Gibblet
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PostPosted: 07-07-2005 07:44 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


sumatra wrote:
EDIT: Oh, ... and ye.. 8GB of RAM, either you are damn rich or you are freakin' insane :icon28: :icon28: :icon28: ......

hehe.. that was a server at work. I don't own it! :)
hell the server costed about $65,000.. thats 3.5 times what I spent on my car!
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pjw
True Nightmare
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PostPosted: 07-07-2005 09:19 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


voodoochopstiks wrote:
I doubt anyone would be irritated about the ceiling not being open there


True. :)
On the other hand, openings in the ceiling allow for even more lighting variation, as you would be able to have spots of bright sunlight amid the dimness and artificial lighting, which could be pretty dazzling, especially if it were hitting a patch of snow...

Judging from those two shots, the lighting looks better (a bit more contrasty), but yeah, I'd have to see it in-game too.
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