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Topic: PC upgrade time

Deji
Eye-like balls

Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 718

Posted: 12-28-2010 03:13 AM

Atm I have a system that manages to run most games on low res, but it's time to upgrade. Unfortunately, I have absolutely no idea of the hardware going around these days, what bottlenecks what, etc.

I have a budget of at maximum 600EUR, but since prices are way higher here than in the US/UK, I probably have less than you think. I upgrade around every 2-3 years, so ideally I would expect it to handle games for the next 2 years at minimum. I'm probably going to try to run everything at 1680*1050, if possible.

I am keeping the case, HDD and DVD writer, so I just need a CPU, GPU, mobo and memory. I would also like to buy an additional 1TB HDD, but worst case scenario I can buy it a bit later. Also there's the question of the PSU. I currently have a 500W PSU (Fortron Blue Storm II), will I have to replace it for something more juicier? If so, how much juicier?

Suggestions?

I looked around some prices and whatnot, I could probably get something like:
i3 560, GTX460, mobo, 3x2GB DDR3, 600w PSU

i5 760, HD6850, mobo, 3x2GB DDR3, 600w PSU

i5 760, GTX465, mobo, 3x2GB DDR3, 600w PSU (this setup is already a bit over my budget with the PSU)

The PSU seems to cost about the same as a 1TB HDD, so if I can keep the current PSU, I can get a new HDD easily. How big is the difference between an i3 and i5 CPU? Is 6GB RAM enough for the system? Also, where do things stand with nVidia/ATI GPUs atm in terms of problems, cost/power, etc? I've heard ATI cards have driver issues, but I don't know anything besides that.

Any help and recommended systems are appreciated

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498

Posted: 12-28-2010 07:47 AM

Both nVidia and ATI released their new product lines just before Xmas, so prices on older stuff should have dropped now. You can pick up a GTX 470 for a pretty good price now and I would spring for that for the negligible price difference between that and the GTX 460. I expect you should be fine with your current PSU, I'm running a much higher system with a 600w, so you should be fine with a 500.

I would go for your third option, but upgrade the 465 to a 470 and drop the PSU.

i3 are all dual-core processors. i5 comes in dual and quad-core varieties, the 760 is a quad. See here (list from last year but still applies).

6GB is more than enough memory for games.

nVidia is slightly more expensive and a little more power intensive but also better performance than ATI. It breaks down to whatever floats your boat and the two companies are continuously leapfrogging each other, there's no clear winner. I've stuck with nVidia only because some of my 3D applications seem to prefer it just a bit more than ATI.

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Deji
Eye-like balls

Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 718

Posted: 12-28-2010 09:15 AM

470 seems kind of iffy. Even if I pick the cheapest 470 from the cheapest vendor, I'm going way over my budget, apparently a 470 requires a 550W PSU minimum. Are the gains really worth going noticeably over budget?

Should I perhaps think about getting a GTX460 and switching the GPU and PSU some time in 2012? How big are the chances that the i5 760 will bottleneck games 1,5 years from now?

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498

Posted: 12-28-2010 09:40 AM

The i5 760 should do just fine. Most games are GPU bottlenecked.

The GTX460 is pretty good. The prices here for the 460 and 470 are almost equal but maybe it's not the same across the pond.

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Deji
Eye-like balls

Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 718

Posted: 12-28-2010 10:03 AM

obsidian wrote:

The prices here for the 460 and 470 are almost equal but maybe it's not the same across the pond.

Yeah, a 470 is about 80$ more expensive than a 1GB 460 over here. That's 10% of my entire budget :P

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Deathshroud
!Berserker!

Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 2100

Posted: 12-29-2010 08:52 PM

Looks like this card is pretty awesome...

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evg ... ,2795.html

Also, my Core i5 750 came with the most pitiful cooler ever. It would run close to 90C with all 4 cores at 100%. I would recommend buying an aftermarket cooler, 1600 DDR3 RAM, and overclock the bitch. I only had to increase the voltage slightly under this setup to get it to run stable, and the temps don't get any higher than 60C. Good stuff.

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Scourge
Pestilence

Joined: 25 Mar 2002
Posts: 15822

Posted: 12-31-2010 08:14 PM

The 1GB 460 is a very decent card. Just bought this one and am very happy with it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814133326

Quiet, cool, smaller than most modern cards, and handles anything I throw at it. Thinking about SLI with another one.

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AmIdYfReAk
Elite

Joined: 10 Feb 2000
Posts: 28023

Posted: 12-31-2010 10:10 PM

i just picked up a 460 1gb as well, works out to be $130 CDN after MIR.

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Deji
Eye-like balls

Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 718

Posted: 01-11-2011 04:27 AM

Quick update, here's the stuff I got:

i5 760
2x 2GB DDR3 (apparently I can't use more than 4GB with WinXP, but I can add a stick if I decide to move to Win7)
Intel DH55TC mobo
1TB Seagate HDD
Gigabyte GTX460 SE 1GB
700W PSU

All for 597€ Hopefully picking it up tonight

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AmIdYfReAk
Elite

Joined: 10 Feb 2000
Posts: 28023

Posted: 01-11-2011 06:25 AM

Nice man!

Also, Any 32-bit O/S you can only use 4GB.

Once you go 64-bit, the cap is 12/24/etc gig depending on that o/s you're using.

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498

Posted: 01-11-2011 08:11 AM

Nice build, though...

Deji wrote:
WinXP

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SoM
Your Other Daddy

Joined: 03 Dec 1999
Posts: 20012

Posted: 01-11-2011 11:05 AM

Win7 you'll love it

i was sceptical at first too, now i love Win7

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Scourge
Pestilence

Joined: 25 Mar 2002
Posts: 15822

Posted: 01-11-2011 07:28 PM

SoM wrote:
Win7 you'll love it

i was sceptical at first too, now i love Win7

A lot of people were after Vista, but 7 more than made up for it. I didn't mind Vista though after the updates.

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bam!
The Afflicted

Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 511

Posted: 01-11-2011 08:48 PM

Vista was more geared towards geeks, Win7 for consumers and geeks alike.

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Deji
Eye-like balls

Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 718

Posted: 01-12-2011 01:46 PM

Meh I dunno, I've heard other players having compatibility issues on Win7 with various stuff.

WinXP installed for the moment, PC runs like a charm. I used to wait 5 or so seconds to alt+tab out of games, now it's basically instantaneous Will have to load up some eyecandy-heavy game and see how this sucker does :P Bring on Deus Ex 3

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U4EA
i liek boobies

Joined: 26 Nov 2000
Posts: 11930

Posted: 01-12-2011 02:39 PM

The only time you'd have compatibility issues would be when running older games. Even then, you can get around most limitations with various forms of Google'd trickery.

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GONNAFISTYA
Glayven?

Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 13025

Posted: 01-12-2011 03:53 PM

I bought a new PC last month that came with Win 7 Home Premium and I, too, was very worried that a bunch of my games wouldn't work, particularly since Win 7 on the new machine is 64 bit.

Every single game works fine and I didn't have to install XP to run everything.
Some games have to be run using compatibility mode but most of them don't.

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Scourge
Pestilence

Joined: 25 Mar 2002
Posts: 15822

Posted: 01-13-2011 06:56 PM

Deji wrote:
Meh I dunno, I've heard other players having compatibility issues on Win7 with various stuff.

WinXP installed for the moment, PC runs like a charm. I used to wait 5 or so seconds to alt+tab out of games, now it's basically instantaneous Will have to load up some eyecandy-heavy game and see how this sucker does :P Bring on Deus Ex 3

Only problem is, to really test the eyecandy you need to run some DX11 games which you can't do in XP. I've heard there's a workaround for DX10 in XP but I don't know if it really works or not. Just sayin'.

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498

Posted: 01-13-2011 08:58 PM

The workaround is only for games that were DX10 exclusives, like Halo 2 for PC. It could technically run fine on DX9, but Microsoft made it only work if you had DX10 (thus Vista), so the "fix" allowed you to install Halo 2 on XP. There is no way to get all the new features of DX10/11 on XP.

Some stats on XP which you should consider when running it on your new computer:
Released 10 years ago.
No longer sold in retail 4 years ago.
Last version update was 2 years ago.

For most people, Windows XP is older than your previous PC. I don't think most people realize just how old XP is. 10 years is forever in computer terms. If you have a new computer, especially if you're playing games, I highly recommend updating the OS as well. Pick up an OEM copy of Windows 7 Home Premium, they should be fairly affordable.

I haven't any old games that aren't compatible with Windows 7 (unless you're talking about the old DOS games that require an emulator, but those won't even run on XP). I do have a few games that are no longer compatible with my video card, but that's not the OS at fault.

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Foo
Timed Out

Joined: 02 Aug 2000
Posts: 38064

Posted: 01-13-2011 09:43 PM

Quote:
apparently I can't use more than 4GB with WinXP

3.5Gb.

Deji wrote:
Meh I dunno, I've heard other players having compatibility issues on Win7 with various stuff.

WinXP installed for the moment, PC runs like a charm. I used to wait 5 or so seconds to alt+tab out of games, now it's basically instantaneous Will have to load up some eyecandy-heavy game and see how this sucker does :P Bring on Deus Ex 3

This is a terrible idea. I also considered it last time I upgraded. Don't do it, go Win7 when you get the kit and get a cheap OEM license.

If you're so concerned, you can dual-boot XP at a later date. After a few days using Windows 7 on your new rig you'll realize how ridiculous it is to run XP on new kit.

You're missing out on proper multicore within the OS, proper x64, not to mention most other security and technical advances of the past decade. Also drivers and support. Progressively fewer things will support XP going forwards. Just Cause 2 is one good example.

Last edited by Foo on 01-13-2011 09:48 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Tormentius
The voices in your head

Joined: 14 Dec 2002
Posts: 10054

Posted: 01-13-2011 09:48 PM

Foo wrote:

This is a terrible idea.

Foo is right, using XP at this point is a bloody awful idea. Just upgrade to Win7 and use compatibility mode if the application needs it.

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SoM
Your Other Daddy

Joined: 03 Dec 1999
Posts: 20012

Posted: 01-13-2011 10:43 PM

Win7 baby, go for it

u have nothing to loose but more to gain

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Deji
Eye-like balls

Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 718

Posted: 01-14-2011 06:21 AM

Purchasing Win7 atm is not really an option at the moment, perhaps in a month or two. Though I'm still reluctant to shell out 100€ for what still seems like a fairly trivial update. As far as I know, XP produces about the same performance as Win7. What sort of features am I missing by not having DX10/11?

Oh, and I wasn't actually worried about the compatibility of games that much. I'm more worried about the whine I hear from other progamers that have migrated to Win7 about compatibility of different "fixes" to Windows that have been developed over the years, such as forcing refresh rates and resolutions that Windows for some reason fails to do, overclocking your USB port to 500+hz, removing the built-in Windows acceleration etc.

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Quake3World.com | Forum Index | Technology & Troubleshooting

The i5 760 should do just fine. Most games are GPU bottlenecked.The GTX460 is pretty good. The prices here for the 460 and 470 are almost equal but maybe it's not the same across the pond.

obsidian wrote:The prices here for the 460 and 470 are almost equal but maybe it's not the same across the pond.Yeah, a 470 is about 80$ more expensive than a 1GB 460 over here. That's 10% of my entire budget :P

The 1GB 460 is a very decent card. Just bought this one and am very happy with it. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814133326Quiet, cool, smaller than most modern cards, and handles anything I throw at it. Thinking about SLI with another one.

i just picked up a 460 1gb as well, works out to be $130 CDN after MIR.

Quick update, here's the stuff I got:i5 7602x 2GB DDR3 (apparently I can't use more than 4GB with WinXP, but I can add a stick if I decide to move to Win7)Intel DH55TC mobo1TB Seagate HDDGigabyte GTX460 SE 1GB700W PSUAll for 597€ Hopefully picking it up tonight

Nice man! Also, Any 32-bit O/S you can only use 4GB. Once you go 64-bit, the cap is 12/24/etc gig depending on that o/s you're using.

Nice build, though...Deji wrote:WinXP

Win7 you'll love iti was sceptical at first too, now i love Win7

SoM wrote:Win7 you'll love iti was sceptical at first too, now i love Win7A lot of people were after Vista, but 7 more than made up for it. I didn't mind Vista though after the updates.

Vista was more geared towards geeks, Win7 for consumers and geeks alike.

The only time you'd have compatibility issues would be when running older games. Even then, you can get around most limitations with various forms of Google'd trickery.

Foo wrote:This is a terrible idea. Foo is right, using XP at this point is a bloody awful idea. Just upgrade to Win7 and use compatibility mode if the application needs it.

Win7 baby, go for itu have nothing to loose but more to gain

The i5 760 should do just fine. Most games are GPU bottlenecked.

The GTX460 is pretty good. The prices here for the 460 and 470 are almost equal but maybe it's not the same across the pond.

obsidian wrote:

The prices here for the 460 and 470 are almost equal but maybe it's not the same across the pond.

Yeah, a 470 is about 80$ more expensive than a 1GB 460 over here. That's 10% of my entire budget :P

The 1GB 460 is a very decent card. Just bought this one and am very happy with it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814133326

Quiet, cool, smaller than most modern cards, and handles anything I throw at it. Thinking about SLI with another one.

Quick update, here's the stuff I got:

i5 760
2x 2GB DDR3 (apparently I can't use more than 4GB with WinXP, but I can add a stick if I decide to move to Win7)
Intel DH55TC mobo
1TB Seagate HDD
Gigabyte GTX460 SE 1GB
700W PSU

All for 597€ Hopefully picking it up tonight

Nice man!

Also, Any 32-bit O/S you can only use 4GB.

Once you go 64-bit, the cap is 12/24/etc gig depending on that o/s you're using.

Nice build, though...

Deji wrote:
WinXP

Win7 you'll love it

i was sceptical at first too, now i love Win7

SoM wrote:
Win7 you'll love it

i was sceptical at first too, now i love Win7

A lot of people were after Vista, but 7 more than made up for it. I didn't mind Vista though after the updates.

Foo wrote:

This is a terrible idea.

Foo is right, using XP at this point is a bloody awful idea. Just upgrade to Win7 and use compatibility mode if the application needs it.

Win7 baby, go for it

u have nothing to loose but more to gain