Q4 textures and maps for Q3

[V1979]

Kat, you can make your manual how to do it correctly and (or) show us (in comparison) advantages/disadvantages of both our methods.

As I can see, Paint.NET desaturates bluish normalmaps correctly enough, without losing detalisation. Inverting colors allows to make illusion of correct relief.

[Kat]

Kat, you can make your manual how to do it correctly and (or) show us (in comparison) advantages/disadvantages of both our methods.

As I can see, Paint.NET desaturates bluish normalmaps correctly enough, without losing detalisation. Inverting colors allows to make illusion of correct relief.

It's explained in the linked article with pictures and text

[Tigger]

@Theftbot What is wrong with PhobosBase1 - Prohecy Of Doom (linked to my comment).

[fKd]

It was a map with textures lifted from Elite Force 2 which broke my little mapping heart as I'd just completed a map using them. I'd reached out to the author of the map but never got any reply.

Still salty after all these years

[Tigger]

Re: PhobosBase1 - Prohecy Of Doom - If someone knows for sure if the textures *are* from Elite Force 2, then I'll remove the map. I'm not removing a map if it is only speculation however.

[V1979]

Kat, I think that the article is not enough. The author took some graphic editor (Corel Photo Paint x5 released in 2010), which desaturates normalmaps badly, and proclaimed that only nJob (or something like this) convert normalmaps correctly.
As I can see (and you - in my screenshots) Paint.NET does it correctly enough, moreover, the 2nd layer lays on such a "relief" well.

[Tigger]

@Theftbot: For the record, V1979's map "Over The Edge" (vq4dm7lite) was recently added to the map queue at ..::LvL. It has now been removed for copyright violations.

V1979's map is not the only map that has been submitted to ..::LvL that has never progressed further than the map queue. I'm sure it will not be the last either.

Please don't spread shit and crap on the work of others without consultation first. I will remove illegal content once it has been established to be illegal. Such as redistributing Q4 textures - even if normalmaps, spec and diffused textures have been merged to create a new texture.

The contact page on ..::LvL is easy to find. Please feel welcome to use it if you spot something questionable.

[V1979]

As I can see, you prefer to discuss problems of copyright publicly, unfortunately.
If you think that there is a problem with the licence agreement, it would be better to discuss it more calmly, I mean, without such words as "shit and crap". Moreover, I explained you most technical details in my letters, as a token of my readiness to cooperate.
In fact, the problem is my wrong understanding of the licence agreement.
ex.: https://github.com/liflg/quake.4_1.4.2- ... icense.txt

I mean its article 2 "Permitted New Creations."
Id Software grants to you the non-exclusive and limited right to create for the Software (except any Software code) your own modifications (the "New Creations") that shall operate only with the Software (but not any demo, test, or other version of the Software, and not with QUAKE 4(tm) independent of the Software). You may include within the New Creations certain textures and other images (the "Software Images") from the Software.

Earlier, I understood that words "(but not any demo, test, or other version of the Software, and not with QUAKE 4(tm) independent of the Software)" mean that New Creations could operate with with the Software (Quake4) AND other version of the Software.
But after some notices here I decided to retranslate the licence agreement and I have to conclude that those words mean that operating with other versions of the Software is not permitted.

In fact, I agree, that if there are some problems, the map shall be removed. But I can't accept your words "don't spread shit and crap". I made some work to convert and adapt this map and textures, developed some technology. As I have written, I do conversions for fun, for my intellectual amusement and for free. If you find it wrong, it would be better to deny the map with indication of the terms that you find violated.

[obsidian]

The license for source code does NOT apply to everything else (such as textures). Those are still very much covered under copyright.

[Eraser]

In fact, I agree, that if there are some problems, the map shall be removed. But I can't accept your words "don't spread shit and crap".

I think Tigger's post was entirely in response to Theftbot, and the "shit and crap" was a referral to Theftbot publicly shaming your map because of copyright infringement. I read Tigger's post as a request to discuss such matters more privately. I certainly did not read it like him saying you were releasing shit and crap (your map and textures).

Reread his post and I think you'll come to the same conclusion. If not, maybe Tigger can elaborate on what he really meant.

[V1979]

The license for source code does NOT apply to everything else (such as textures). Those are still very much covered under copyright.

It seems that the cited license agreement is about Quake 4 as a game - see words in the preamble "...BY CONTINUING THE INSTALLATION OF THE GAME PROGRAM ENTITLED QUAKE 4(tm) (THE "SOFTWARE")..."
And in the cited article 2 of the license agreement there are the words: "You may include within the New Creations certain TEXTURES and other images (the "Software Images") from the Software."
Thus, Q4 textures can be used for New Creations, which "shall operate only with the Software".
So, I think that if one uses them to create custom Q4 maps, it will be OK.
Or, if I am wrong, give a link to the right license agreement.

[V1979]

I think Tigger's post was entirely in response to Theftbot, and the "shit and crap" was a referral to Theftbot publicly shaming your map because of copyright infringement. I read Tigger's post as a request to discuss such matters more privately. I certainly did not read it like him saying you were releasing shit and crap (your map and textures).
Reread his post and I think you'll come to the same conclusion. If not, maybe Tigger can elaborate on what he really meant.

Maybe... I've thought that it's about my map that he has removed from the map queue after my letter where I explained how the map and textures had been made.
In fact, I have some thoughts about the theme of EULA. But I think it would be better to discuss it in another place.

[AndyW]

Re: PhobosBase1 - Prohecy Of Doom - If someone knows for sure if the textures *are* from Elite Force 2, then I'll remove the map. I'm not removing a map if it is only speculation however.

I know i have the EF2 Disc flying around in on of the many boxes left from my last moving. Tomorrow i will do a quick check!
If its not yours and you dont have a permission -JUST DONT USE IT!
Nothing more to say from my side, please dont throw stones at me.


EDIT: Found the cd but all GFX in PK3´s are in a idiotic strange format i cannot open. (dds)
I dont want to fuck up my PC just to open that files and compare stuff, so im out!

[Kat]

Kat, I think that the article is not enough. The author took some graphic editor (Corel Photo Paint x5 released in 2010), which desaturates normalmaps badly, and proclaimed that only nJob (or something like this) convert normalmaps correctly.
As I can see (and you - in my screenshots) Paint.NET does it correctly enough, moreover, the 2nd layer lays on such a "relief" well.

What you're doing is a mistake typical of noobs and repeatedly saying it won't magically make it right. This poor technique has been presented numerous times over the years by your predecessors and they too were corrected and learned from their mistakes. Others in future will post and they too will be corrected. It's up to you whether you join their ranks and become a better artist or not.

[Tigger]

My comment was 100% in response to Theftbot's comment:

LvL and Worldspawn Archive dont care for copyrights.

Which I found offensive, misleading and completely inaccurate. This is the sort of throw-away comment that can lead a website (and by extension, myself) to a lot of (legal) trouble. I would hate to have to shut-down ..::LvL due to some lawyer going over the site with a fine tooth comb due to a lie posted by some n00b who has never cross-check a fact before posting.

Personally, I would love to see the comment by Theftbot removed.

I've worked in the IT industry for over 20 years now, worked on AAA games and high end web sites and have maintained ..::LvL for over 15 years, often fighting and educating people during that time on what can and can not be used (due to copyright, copyleft, open source, public domain and Creative Commons licences), to then read something that implies I don't give a rats ass for intellectual property law is just rude and 100% wrong.

Get your facts straight before you slander people Theftbot. This kind of comment is way more damaging than I think you realise in today's world. It could adversely affect anything I may do in the future, and if that is the case I'm pretty sure I'm going to chase you with a big stick.

[V1979]

Found the cd but all GFX in PK3´s are in a idiotic strange format i cannot open. (dds)

*.dds files are used for Q4 too. They can be opened by many programs. I do it with IrfanView (not advertising, just a fact).

[m4xpower]

[...]going over the site with a fine tooth comb[...]

I actually did that a while back and found only very minor infractions. There are a few questionable maps which were obviously de- and recompiled, but that's about it.
Adding a "Report abuse" button with predefined selections like "Map recompile" and/or "Unlicensed assets" would probably be suffice.

These are my findings for the map(s) mentioned earlier. I found those dupes within 10 minutes and the texture theme suggests, that there are even more texture similarities with Star Trek Elite Force 1+2 and other games from that time. Make of that what you will - the origin of those assets might not even be those games.

ARCHIVE: Deimos2.pk3

Code: Select all

Deimos2\textures\borg\basemetal4b.jpg
StarTrekEliteForce\textures_ef1\borg\basemetal4b.jpg

Deimos2\textures\deimosbase\door3.tga
StarTrekEliteForce\textures_ef2\attrexian-station\asdoor2.dds

Deimos2\textures\deimosbase\floor2.tga
StarTrekEliteForce\textures_ef2\attrexian-station\asfloor8.dds

Deimos2\textures\deimosbase\floor1.jpg
StarTrekEliteForce\textures_ef2\attrexian-colony\acfloor4.dds

Deimos2\textures\deimosbase\box1.tga
Deimos2\textures\deimosbase\box3.tga
Deimos2\textures\deimosbase\box4.tga
StarTrekEliteForce\textures_ef2\attrexian-colony\acbox1.dds

ARCHIVE: PhobosBase1.pk3

Code: Select all

PhobosBase1\textures\marsbase\door1.jpg
StarTrekEliteForce\textures_ef2\attrexian-colony\acdoor4.dds

PhobosBase1\textures\marsbase\door4.jpg
StarTrekEliteForce\textures_ef2\attrexian-station\asdoor11.dds

PhobosBase1\textures\marsbase\door5.jpg
StarTrekEliteForce\textures_ef2\attrexian-colony\edoor2.dds

PhobosBase1\textures\marsbase\box1.jpg
StarTrekEliteForce\textures_ef2\klingon\kcrate6.dds

PhobosBase1\textures\marsbase\wall3a.jpg
PhobosBase1\textures\marsbase\wall3.jpg
StarTrekEliteForce\textures_ef2\attrexian-station\aswall11.dds

PhobosBase1\textures\marsbase\trim1.jpg
StarTrekEliteForce\textures_ef2\attrexian-station\aspanb2.dds

P.S.: sorry, if I derailed the thread even further off-topic...

[Tigger]

@m4xpower: Can you use the contact form on ..::LvL and explain in a little more detail what I'm looking at in your post please. I just want to confirm a few things before I start to remove maps.

[m4xpower]

[...]explain in a little more detail what I'm looking at in your post please. I just want to confirm a few things before I start to remove maps.

Uploaded some comparison shots to look at.

Left image: Star Trek Elite Force 2 texture
Right image: PhobosBase1 (PhobosBase1.pk3) texture

Left description: texture name in Star Trek Elite Force 2
Right description: texture name in PhobosBase1 (PhobosBase1.pk3)
http://www.anony.ws/image/DBdk
http://www.anony.ws/image/DBdn
http://www.anony.ws/image/DBda

For my last post I did a search for corresponding textures.
First line: full path and name used in the custom pk3
Second line: full path and name of the source texture in Star Trek Elite Force 1 or 2 (_ef1 or _ef2)

[Eraser]

EDIT: Found the cd but all GFX in PK3´s are in a idiotic strange format i cannot open. (dds)

DDS (DirectDraw Surface) is a quite a common file format. Paint.NET can natively open these files.
It's basically an image compression format that uses S3TC for compression.

[V1979]

What you're doing is a mistake typical of noobs and repeatedly saying it won't magically make it right. This poor technique has been presented numerous times over the years by your predecessors and they too were corrected and learned from their mistakes. Others in future will post and they too will be corrected. It's up to you whether you join their ranks and become a better artist or not.

[Kat]

[deleted original response because it's just.. not.. worth it]

[V1979]

Updating the topic