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Topic Starter Topic: The future of QL?
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PostPosted: 09-26-2015 03:26 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm posting it here since I think it might concern us mappers a bit also, not only the players. It's actually and old post, but still.
http://esreality.com/post/2756038/quake ... nd-beyond/

Especially this line: <syncerror> Private servers can run custom maps, via Steam Workshop.

That might mean a new era for Quake 3 mapping, I'm not saying that QL will suddenly become a super huge game or anything (more it will probably lose players if there's no official servers in the future), but that you will be able to get your levels out to a larger audience, just like with CS and other Workshop games.

For me personally it means that I might actually for once in my life, throw out 1.32c and replace that with QL.



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AndehX
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PostPosted: 09-26-2015 04:38 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Wow, if this is true, I might come back to Quake mapping!
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KittenIgnition
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PostPosted: 09-26-2015 04:55 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


There's Quake Live Testing on Steam, it works really well and there are solo many features that I never knew existed. I actually didn't test custom maps or the workshop at all (I don't know if the workshop is up-and-running yet), because I was too damn lazy to fix an issue with full screen/windowed.

It is quite nice that they're finally doing good things with QL, even though it is 5 years late.
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Infernis
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PostPosted: 09-26-2015 11:28 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I know it's blasphemy, especially here, but Quake 3 has been on life support for ages. I don't think these changes will revive QL. It's good that it's still around, but that's about it.



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AndyW
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PostPosted: 09-26-2015 11:56 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That sounds good! I hope we get some detailed infos soon.
Just buyed an 2 month pro-ticket last week :)



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Hipshot
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PostPosted: 09-27-2015 03:25 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Infernis wrote:
I know it's blasphemy, especially here, but Quake 3 has been on life support for ages. I don't think these changes will revive QL. It's good that it's still around, but that's about it.


I think people are aware =) And Id too, they probably see it as a good way to wind down the game, put the resources into new ventures.



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m4xpower
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PostPosted: 09-27-2015 12:30 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hipshot wrote:
[...]they probably see it as a good way to wind down the game[...]

more like winding down the company and the ips attached to it.
just like kitten said, this update is 5 years over due. the only actual good thing that might come from it: new maps - maybe even for q3.
in comparison to q3 it's still a major step back: no mod support and no open source.
yes, of course it will attract more players and more content(map) creators...maybe...probably...not...LOL!

always cracks me up, when i reminisce about the whole matter/issue/gestalt that is ql:
https://youtu.be/qJWBm6rJE6Q
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Hipshot
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PostPosted: 09-27-2015 11:11 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm not sure I understand why people dislike QL compared to Q3, cause it sure seems so when I look around at forums on the net, just casually.

For me, the only thing worse with QL then Q3 is the non existent custom map support and if QL might get that support, well, then that's it for Q3.



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PostPosted: 09-27-2015 11:26 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hipshot wrote:
I'm not sure I understand why people dislike QL compared to Q3, cause it sure seems so when I look around at forums on the net, just casually.

For me, the only thing worse with QL then Q3 is the non existent custom map support and if QL might get that support, well, then that's it for Q3.


Well, I don't dislike Quake Live at all, but the map rotation is a bit limited IMO and the spawn loadouts is complete bollocks. Was playing a game of TDM the other day (after a long hiatus) and I got sick of everyone spawning with a Rocket Launcher or RG. There's just no point in trying to control the RL spawn location if everyone spawns with one anyway.

That, and getting raped in the ass by RL wielding enemy that freshly spawned three feet behind you.
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PostPosted: 09-28-2015 06:39 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
Well, I don't dislike Quake Live at all, but the map rotation is a bit limited IMO and the spawn loadouts is complete bollocks. Was playing a game of TDM the other day (after a long hiatus) and I got sick of everyone spawning with a Rocket Launcher or RG. There's just no point in trying to control the RL spawn location if everyone spawns with one anyway.

That, and getting raped in the ass by RL wielding enemy that freshly spawned three feet behind you.


Yap, 100% :up: Free for all is a complete Chaos if there are too many players on the Server. Its like jumping into a Blender sometimes :olo:
Weapon loadout should be switchable in options and/or vote!
-LG is overpowered IMHO
-BFG should be removed, its just crap for crap

But i like QL, got good performance with my old PC and alot of fun playing.
But it really really would be cool to add a Hook like in Q2lithium... <3 <3 <3



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AEon
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PostPosted: 09-28-2015 06:59 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hehe... have not heard the Q2 Lithium mod mentioned in ages... used to run it on my servers... Quad + Strength + Vampire... wheee ;)

Don't know why... never got into QL... maybe its that the pk3 files are protected and I really really hate that... I am going Reflex... so no worries there for me. Though the game still needs much work...
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cityy
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PostPosted: 09-28-2015 09:37 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AEon wrote:
Don't know why... never got into QL... maybe its that the pk3 files are protected and I really really hate that... I am going Reflex... so no worries there for me. Though the game still needs much work...


They actually got rid of the pk3 encryption a few months ago, just in case that's of interest for you.
The loadouts as well as the addition of the HMG were unfortunate ideas. There were major protests against those features by internal testers which unfortunately remained neglected (but not unheard).

Quake Live's gameplay is pretty good but it suffers from a lack of intuitive design. Noone will ever know how to strafe jump if they are not told about it by somebody else (or a video, text tutorial or . . .). That's the only issue this game really has on a fundamental level. Social features and a more capable engine + modding tools would be to come after this issue is adressed.



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AndyW
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PostPosted: 09-28-2015 10:43 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


strafejumping has really getting mad over the years!!! I think i will never finish that QL strafe-tut! :cry:
But its not all about the strafe, you cant take a Hayabusa to the Supermarket.
Strafe needs alot of (open) space too IMHO.
And thats not good...



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m4xpower
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PostPosted: 09-28-2015 11:44 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hipshot wrote:
I'm not sure I understand why people dislike QL compared to Q3, cause it sure seems so when I look around at forums on the net, just casually.

Well, QL is just Q3 with countless opportunities squandered, either due to the lack of skill, competence or actual interest by the ip owners.
Q3 not only offeres a lot more possibilities regarding open source, modding, maps and whatnot; the game itself still a challenge to be mastered.
Load a common QL map into Q3 and actually play it and you'll get the gist of it...

Hipshot wrote:
For me, the only thing worse with QL then Q3 is the non existent custom map support and if QL might get that support, well, then that's it for Q3.

Just as cityy stated, "encrypted" pk3s are a thing of the past. you can just load them into muffinmans client or into wolfcam.

My bet would be: any subscription model will be gone with the next update and the game will have a price tag between $9,99 and $15,99.
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AndyW
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PostPosted: 09-28-2015 12:21 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


What will happen to the QL-Forum after porting to steam? VOID?? :question:
But on the other side we have all the infos and stuff here, so its just like losing a moneybag without money...
Or burning a Koran :q3:



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cityy
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PostPosted: 09-29-2015 09:19 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AndyW wrote:
strafejumping has really getting mad over the years!!! I think i will never finish that QL strafe-tut! :cry:
But its not all about the strafe, you cant take a Hayabusa to the Supermarket.
Strafe needs alot of (open) space too IMHO.
And thats not good...


Well, the concept of circle jumping, which is the actually hard thing to master (see bridge to rail for instance) doesn't take a lot of space and combined with a single strafe it can enable jumps that everyone loves this game for.
The quality achieved by circle and strafe jumping is a good thing; just the techniques themselves are rather suboptimal. The game needs something players can figure out without help because if new players depend on friends or tutorials to teach them the game then this game will have a hard time growing big.

Personally, I learned to appreciate the mapping and the frag movies before I even figured out how the game really works. That's interesting thinking about it now because I really love QL for its gameplay (the traditional version) but if it wasn't for mapping and those sick ass frag movies I watched in the early days I would have probably dropped it quickly.



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PostPosted: 09-29-2015 10:35 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Aye, I only really got into quake because of annihilation and tribulation, and have also stayed because of mapping, though city and I follow thoroughly different disciplines :D

Without the technical difficulty of strafe John mping, though, nothing would really be that impressive to watch. If it didn't take years of practice for shio to master the game to actually beat , it wouldn't be as impressive.

The amazing thing about quakeabout's movement is that it is simple enough to learn the fundamentals, and they are very easy to carry out, with much more payout than bhopping in counter-strike. This makes them a fundamental part of the gameplay, entirely changing what the game would be otherwise. The bug, all the accompanying bugs, all the math, all the practice; that's what makes this game awesome to me, and I have no problem with it slowly disappearing - I would rather it die pure, than change it enough to make it appeal to the masses. Anyone who enjoys call of duty, I don't want playing my game anyway.
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PostPosted: 09-29-2015 10:48 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


cityy wrote:
The quality achieved by circle and strafe jumping is a good thing; just the techniques themselves are rather suboptimal. The game needs something players can figure out without help because if new players depend on friends or tutorials to teach them the game then this game will have a hard time growing big.


What's the difference between QL and Q3 in this regard though? The technique hasn't changed yet most Q3 players are capable of storage jumping, circle strafe jumping, Rocket jumping and even plasmaclimbing. QL players should be able to learn, no?
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KittenIgnition
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PostPosted: 09-29-2015 11:28 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
cityy wrote:
The quality achieved by circle and strafe jumping is a good thing; just the techniques themselves are rather suboptimal. The game needs something players can figure out without help because if new players depend on friends or tutorials to teach them the game then this game will have a hard time growing big.


What's the difference between QL and Q3 in this regard though? The technique hasn't changed yet most Q3 players are capable of storage jumping, circle strafe jumping, Rocket jumping and even plasmaclimbing. QL players should be able to learn, no?

For one thing, q3 has defrag, but more than that I think there's just been more time for the players to learn about all these different mechanics. There's nothing really stopping ql players from learning - ql is a bit slower, you can't RJ as high, you can plasma climb higher ; but all the mechanics are 99% similar in function. Ql is just more about playing the actual game IMO.

I've taught a few people how to properly strafe, but I also teach them how to set up q3 and defrag - hell, my friend wants to learn how to surf in cs, so I took him to q3/cpma and taught him there since the mechanic is the same. Q3 just has more learning tools than any other derivative or similar game.
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cityy
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PostPosted: 10-01-2015 01:44 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
cityy wrote:
The quality achieved by circle and strafe jumping is a good thing; just the techniques themselves are rather suboptimal. The game needs something players can figure out without help because if new players depend on friends or tutorials to teach them the game then this game will have a hard time growing big.


What's the difference between QL and Q3 in this regard though? The technique hasn't changed yet most Q3 players are capable of storage jumping, circle strafe jumping, Rocket jumping and even plasmaclimbing. QL players should be able to learn, no?


QL players are able to learn, many did. Though quake 3 had more things going for it and was thus able to get more players. I'm sure the percentage of people leaving the game because of it's difficulty is the same in QL and Q3. However, Q3 was the best looking game with a contemporary engine when it came out. It was revolutionary, on top of many gaming magazins. It had modding, mapping, movie making and a motivated community where things were progressing (q3map2, q3mme, mods, maps, tournaments, movies, LANs). That's why it attracted a lot more people.
Thinking about it now, I only sticked to QL because I could make maps for Q3.



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PostPosted: 10-01-2015 03:18 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That's a good point :up:
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PostPosted: 10-28-2015 12:02 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The beta of QL has workshop and LAN support.

Get it from steam by opting in from the beta tab in properties.



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PostPosted: 10-28-2015 07:51 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It is actually live now:

http://www.vg247.com/2015/10/28/quake-l ... ay-option/
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PostPosted: 10-28-2015 12:54 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


And costs $10 :D
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Gustavo6046
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PostPosted: 10-28-2015 01:06 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


And what if I stick to Quake 3? Where my maps will get bigger audience (preferably in a active community)?



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CZghost
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PostPosted: 10-28-2015 11:30 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


No more Quake Live for us poor players :(



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Hipshot
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PostPosted: 10-28-2015 11:58 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


If you already had QL, you will get it for free though, it's new players who had to buy it.



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PostPosted: 10-29-2015 02:07 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It was a bunch of time ago, my profile just does not exist anymore, which means new registrastion and which means paying...



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Martinus
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PostPosted: 10-29-2015 04:08 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Bad luck CZghostie.



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PostPosted: 10-29-2015 06:55 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The price tag is like putting up a huge wall to keep new players out - it used to be that you had to pay to spawn servers, but anyone could play, so new players still came in even if they weren't going to stay. Now there will be no curious newcomers, but all the old players got the game for free, which means it will suffer a similar fate to q3: it will be even harder for new players to join thanks to there being less of them to play against, while veterans will stay and get better against one another. It's worse than q3, because it's on Steam which means you can't pirate it to avoid the price tag. There's no open arena for the law-abiding players either.
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obsidian
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PostPosted: 10-29-2015 07:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


If you ever had QL on your Steam account back when it was free, it stays in there as already purchased. QL has been on Steam for a while now, if you had any intention of playing it, you would probably have it by now.

It's $10 for Quake Live. To put that into perspective, if you wanted to buy Quake 3 Arena on Steam right now, it's $20!!! I'm also sure that it'll be cheaper on Steam sales. Will it affect new players? Perhaps. But the problem for new players for such an old game will always be retention. As a free game, some people will just download it, run around for a match and then never play it again. That adds nothing to the community.

On the plus side, there are now bigger map rotations, private servers (great for new players), and Steam Workshop for custom content. In the long run, I think this is overall positive. The only thing I think Bethesda could have handled better was some kind of migration of player data, and not wiping out the QL forums which had a bunch of resources written by the community, including some tutorials by cityy and myself.



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PostPosted: 10-29-2015 09:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The main problem I see is that it almost completely shuts out curious people. Sure they may not stay, but some would, and now they likely will never try it. For old players this is nothing but good news, unless you had hope for the game growing (I had a bit). But none of my friends will ever play it thanks to its now having a price tag.
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PaN61
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PostPosted: 10-29-2015 09:40 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


So does this mean if you basically played Quake Live through the standalone client / browser option, you can't play the game anymore since it's only available on Steam? Seems like a punch in the face to all those people, and unfortunately I'm one of them.



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Gustavo6046
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PostPosted: 10-29-2015 11:23 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Bethesda sucks
Steam sucks
What else will enter the "sucks = []" Python list?



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AndyW
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PostPosted: 10-29-2015 11:40 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Nice! Maybe no more free-play-kid-hate-spam-tsunamis :D!
Im happy with the switch and like the client.

@Obsidian: No chance to get the Forum content? i was thinking about to download it but the switch came that quick...
Maybe that was part of the quick-switch-plan, they try to avoid traffic... :rtcw:



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