Dutcheelections

[MKJ]

lol pvv 2nd biggest party?
I blame the whole Turkey affair.

[Eraser]

Question to Dutch0s: is the centre-right still right-wing or is it a completely useless moniker like labour/democrat/christian social?

We'll have to see. The centr-right moved more to the right in their statements and the amount of focus on issues like immigration. The thing is though, that this is a result of Geert Wilders attracting voters with his discriminatory ideals. The center parties kind of felt the need to start adopting some of his style to attract those same voters.

Now that Wilders is pretty much guaranteed to be an opposition party, the undoubtful center right coalition we'll get doesn't need to be all that righwing oriented. It remains to be seen what their policies are going to be.

Still though, there is a pretty clear difference on a number of issues with the left.

[Eraser]

Dutch voting ballot
[lvlshot]https://i.redd.it/xo1b33bzklly.jpg[/lvlshot]

[Captain]

Question to Dutch0s: is the centre-right still right-wing or is it a completely useless moniker like labour/democrat/christian social?

We'll have to see. The centr-right moved more to the right in their statements and the amount of focus on issues like immigration. The thing is though, that this is a result of Geert Wilders attracting voters with his discriminatory ideals. The center parties kind of felt the need to start adopting some of his style to attract those same voters.

Now that Wilders is pretty much guaranteed to be an opposition party, the undoubtful center right coalition we'll get doesn't need to be all that righwing oriented. It remains to be seen what their policies are going to be.

Still though, there is a pretty clear difference on a number of issues with the left.

Shame that they would pander to Dutch memphs, but there's still hope for Europe if they remain firmly opposed to Wilders. Just need Le Pen to also get fucked.

[Captain]

Dutch voting ballot
[lvlshot]https://i.redd.it/xo1b33bzklly.jpg[/lvlshot]

We had 8 candidates to choose from in the last Finnish federal elections. I read the Dutch had 28 parties in these elections? That's crazy (in a good way).

Multiple choices and an educated citizenry? What is this blasphemy

[shaft]

Dutch voting ballot
[lvlshot]https://i.redd.it/xo1b33bzklly.jpg[/lvlshot]

I think I see Stein and Johnson on there...

[Ryoki]

Multiple choices and an educated citizenry?

Educated? VVD is the biggest party, PVV the second biggest

[MKJ]

the larger cities mostly voted left though. too bad thats not the bulk of the population.

[Ryoki]

Yeah, that's pretty much always the case i think.

At least GroenLinks did very well. Just not as well as i'd hoped.

[Eraser]

The green bar chart here shows it's mostly those with lower education voting for PVV. Those with higher eduction mainly voted GroenLinks, D66 and VVD.

The blue one shows GroenLinks has a lot of support from young people.

[Captain]

Multiple choices and an educated citizenry?

Educated? VVD is the biggest party, PVV the second biggest

But that's part of the fear-mongering and xenophobia sweeping across Europe right now, hopefully more people will come to their senses and the likes of Wilders and his neo-Nazi buttbuddies can fuck off back into the damp holes they slithered out of.

[seremtan]

the media seems to be writing this up as an epic win against "populism" and the far right, but didn't the PVV increase its # of seats by 5, and still be 2nd largest party?

kind of a boost to Wilders personally though, making the entire election about him

[MKJ]

Yeah I read headlines like "Wilders loses NL elections", but in reality he had a huge win. Not the biggest party but that's less relevant in a coalition government.

[Eraser]

It's another case of spinning the headlines in which way you want. In austria, for example, their rightwing government has congratulated Wilders with his victory. Thing is, the Dutch elections are seen like a dress rehersal for the elections in France and Germany. If Wilders became the biggest party, that would've strengthened people like Marine Le Pen. And it was pretty much the expectation that he would become the biggest, especially if you look at the polls of a few weeks back.

Right now, Wilders sure did win 5 seats and became 2nd biggest party in the Netherlands. But there's still quite a gap with the VVD and he's trailed by just 1 seat by 2 other parties. The result is that, due to the wide array of formation options available to the VVD and their refusal to work with PVV, he's pretty much removed from the playing field. He sure can have a big influence with 20 seats, but considering the amount of influence he's truly had in the past in terms of decision making or coming up with solutions, it's not very hard to imagine that this is 20 seats gone to complete waste. He actually tweeted that he'll do everything to make the cabinet's life very difficult the next four years. Yeah, that's not a really constructive way of having 20 seats. That's being disruptive and childish.

I think it's safe to say that most of the media were holding their breath in anticipation of Wilders taking the lead and empowering the whole extreme right throughout Europe. With that not having happened, I think the resulting headlines are a sigh of relief rather than a celebration of victory.

[Transient]

The world has gone in a really scary direction lately. I'm glad for any reprieve we can get.

[seremtan]

the world was heading in a scary direction long before Trump and the so-called far right started raising their flabby orange heads

it started back in the late 1970s when governments (in collusion with business) decided to target inflation, globalise supply chains, and allow free movement of capital (but not labour). the logic of those decisions has inexorably led to the slow suffocation of democracy, and hence to a reaction against this which inevitably takes the form of nativism because there is no opposition organised at an international level

tl;dr - the 'business as usual' types are ultimately to blame

[saturn]

I voted D66 because I'm all for education and Europe.

I honestly gonna miss the British people leaving the EU. You island people inherently belong to the history of Europe and it's a shame that we part on choices that are based on lies and populism.

I'm visiting Edinbro' in June and will convince every Scot I'll meet to stay part of this haphazard union.

[seremtan]

lies and populism

really?

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/ho ... d-and-why/



leavers: democracy
remainers: economy, culture

[saturn]

lies and populism

really?

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/ho ... d-and-why/



leavers: democracy
remainers: economy, culture

Two words: Nigel Farage

[seremtan]

meaning..?

[losCHUNK]

Remain voters reasons - perfectly logical
Leave voters - MURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[seremtan]

yeah democracy is overrated. we should let experts decide what's best, so long as i agree with all their decisions of course

[losCHUNK]

Sounds like democracy

[Eraser]

Hah yeah, that actually is, albeit a somewhat cynical, but reasonably accurate description of the democratic process.

We choose representatives (experts) to govern us by voting for them and, naturally, we vote for those we agree with.

[losCHUNK]

Aye

But to expand on it, it's how we determine the credibility of an arguement, innit ?. Some people hold their beliefs more strongly than others but it's upto both sides to try and convince us otherwise, with facts, analysis, statistics or whatnot.

To come back to the Brexit debate, it's why I firmly believe our politicians failed us, not just with Brexit either - infighting / power struggles mostly for personal gain rather than what's best for the country. The 3 mains reasons in that pic posted for the 'leave' side can be explained away pretty simply but the lack of a credible defence allowed those beliefs to become major issues. I remember one of the lines frequently touted being something along the lines of 'people are sick of listening to experts', which is kinda like saying 'despite the credibility of your arguement I'm just gonna stick my fingers in my ears' - as spoken by an apparent expert. Why don't we stop listening to 'experts' about global warming n all ?, or that smoking causes cancer ?, or that riding without a helmet increases the chances of dying from head injruy ?.

The problem with the British public it seems, is that they wanted the best of both worlds. Shit like free movement of goods with border control , there was a series of mixed messages promising their wishes from various sources all saying different things, people just listened to what they wanted to hear and now we're all caught in a tide of 'this is what the country wanted, article 50, going against it is against the wish of the people' regardless of what the voters believed they were getting.