Stubborn sparklies???

[surgeon62]

I am trying to fix sparklies in several locations in my map. However, there are several places where I think I have done what should fix the sparklies (thanks for the help Anwulf), but they are still there. Here is an in-game shot showing one of the problem spots.



Here is a shot from the editor with the patch hidden to show the caulk behind it.



Is there something I missed here?

[axbaby]

if you split that right patch in 2 ,cap it then join it with a thin 2 unit sliver of caulk would that work ?

from the editor pic it seems like you have made some mistakes like that big ol caulk brush joining the 2 patches.

wouldn't an end cap replace that brush if you used 2 bevel's?

too hard to tell what you have done from the pic

you must be just as drunk if you understand me .

[surgeon62]

Here is another editor shot that shows how I made this whole little bridge section. I'm still learning, so let me know what is the best way to do something like this.

[axbaby]

thin caulk brushes
a total of 4 caulk brushes ..maybe 5 is sparklies joining 2 smaller patches

[obsidian]

Miter, miter, miter! Not only does it reduce the number of tris in your map, but it also does wonders in reducing the occurance of sparklies.

On patches, never intersect a patch (or brush for that matter) at the midpoint of an edge, it is sure to cause sparklies. 12 tris on top, 12 tris on the sides of the platform, I'm not counting the patch subdivisions but you will save some tris there too.


Try something like this instead. 11 tris on top, 4 tris on the sides, much less tris on the patches, unlikely to have problems with sparklies.


Good luck.

Edit: that first image should say bad... edge of other PATCH. Textbox was too small to contain all that text.

[surgeon62]

Thanks to all for the help.

Obsidian, how did you create the patches in your redone version? They don't look like any I've done before.

[obsidian]

I just created a 3x3 patch and edited the control points:

Create a brush and press SHIFT+P > in the menu that pops up select width 3, height 3 > then press V and the control points appear > select and drag the control points to resemble the arrangement shown below.

I didn't save the map file I was working on before, so I'm just painting the control points over the image.

[Hr.O]

When you're making a flyover like that, it best to make a fully enclosed box out of the patches. So not only make top, bottom and two sides but also the head- and tail ends. If you forget those, you're bound to meet with mister roundingof error aka sparklies.

Hr.O

[surgeon62]

Are you saying make the end patches even if they will not be visible?

When you do this, do you use the thicken command or do you do them by hand from a simple patch?

Thx

[Fjoggs]

Thicken is evil, use patch meshes.

[obsidian]

I don't know about making the ends of patches... I've never had to do that.

Thicken, hollow and subtract are evil. Don't use them.

[Plan C]

I don't know about making the ends of patches... I've never had to do that...

Never heard of this method, either.

Care to elucidate, Hr. O?

[surgeon62]

I finally got a chance to try Obsidian's suggestion and it worked great. No sparklies.

Is there a place somewhere with some examples of the best ways to construct shapes of medium complexity from brushes and patches? It would be good to be able to look at editor shots like the one Obsidian posted for examples.

Just a thought.

[surgeon62]

OK, Here's another problem spot (same spot from 2 different angles):



I know now that I shouldn't have the patches set up the way they are here, but it is not obvious to me how I can do this one differently.

[surgeon62]

If anyone has an idea on how to better construct what is shown in the pics above, your help will be greatly appreciated.

[obsidian]

Not hard, certainly not more so than the first one. All you have to do is move a few vertex points around.



Also, see Q's Sample Map Thread, 4 pages of optimization fun:
http://www.quake3world.c.../20020703-6-020488.html
http://www.quake3world.c...0020703-6-020488-2.html
http://www.quake3world.c...0020703-6-020488-3.html
http://www.quake3world.c...0020703-6-020488-4.html

[surgeon62]

Thanks again.

I tried the links and they came up dead. It looks like they are actually pointing to the text that shows for the link including the "..." part. I'll check back later if you get a chance to fix them.

[Todtsteltzer]

These should work...

Q's sample map thread (4 pages):
http://www.quake3world.com/ubb/Archives ... 20488.html
http://www.quake3world.com/ubb/Archives ... 488-2.html
http://www.quake3world.com/ubb/Archives ... 488-3.html
http://www.quake3world.com/ubb/Archives ... 488-4.html

[obsidian]

Oops, sorry... I cut and pasted them out of another thread but forgot about the "..."

Thanks Todtsteltzer for the updated links.

[Hr.O]

I don't know about making the ends of patches... I've never had to do that...

Never heard of this method, either.

Care to elucidate, Hr. O?

trail and error.
I once tried to make a flyover outof patches and brushes, however i tried there were spraklies around the seams where the brushes met the patches. only when i capped them they disapeared. Anyways those four tris (two for each cap) don't make you bleed enough to not better be save then sorry.

Hr.O
ps. sorry for the delay, it took me a while to stumble over this thread again.

[surgeon62]

Well, since this thread has been resurected...

I am still having aproblem with this. I re-did the bridge and it looks like this in the editor:



I thought everything was fine. However, I came across a post that recommended looking for sparklies in 16-bit mode. When I did that I found this:


This is between 2 brushes. Are these even sparklies?

[$NulL]

It looks like z-fighting, you should have caulk on those inside faces.

[seremtan]

Another suggestion is: don't use patches for anything ever. If you need to make a curved structure, do it in gmax or 3DS with smoothing groups then export to md3. Much 1337er and no sparkly shit.

[obsidian]

Another suggestion is: don't use patches for anything ever. If you need to make a curved structure, do it in gmax or 3DS with smoothing groups then export to md3. Much 1337er and no sparkly shit.

To be truly "1337", it's better to learn how to <i>properly</i> use patches rather than using some other workaround method as a way to avoid solving the actual problem in question.

Brushes, patches and models are all just tools that we use to build levels. They all have their own advantages and disadvantages. Simply substituting one object for another when faced with a difficulty isn't addressing the issue, nor does it necessarily mean that it will fix it either. Improperly constructed models are just as likely (if not more likely due to user error) to result in sparkly problems.

So I would recommend understanding what causes sparklies and avoid running into such problems in the first place. Sparklies can be most easily avoided by using caulk, and by making sure that vertex points don't intersect an edge without splitting it.


surgeon62:
-Make sure that you caulk all unseen faces between those brushes.
-Run brush-cleanup periodically, just in case.
-When creating mitered objects, it's best not to use edge or vertex manipulation. Use the clipper tool instead.

[Plan C]

Judging by your first pic (05-31), I can't understand how you would expect *not* to run into sparklie-problems.

You've got patches run into and overlapping other patches and brushes.

No offence, but that's a real slop-fest, right there.

First off, have vertices of patches and brushes join in a neat way.

Thén we can discuss how patches can stíll be fickle and cause sparklies when, seemingly, everything was done in an orderly, by-the-book, fashion.


More to the point:

I'd suggest broadening the jump-shute's wall so it matches the curved walkways.

Also make these curved walkways' height match adjacent brush/patch structure.

I realise that this would involve a major overhaul of adjacent structures, but IMO it's the only way to go.

GL!