Random Thought #28

[Guest]

I'm still stuck on this idea behind the creation of the universe so I kinda expanded on it a little more.

A: http://tinypic.com/5o6zbd
B: http://tinypic.com/5o6zja
C: http://tinypic.com/5o6zk1

Ok...

So the idea here is that space is the fabric of reality. When I say space I mean empty space where "nothing" exists so to speak. This material is a lot like a string in some respects and using the term string makes it easier to explain. However it has certain characteristics. When it's just sitting there it's in a neutral position meaning but when you stretch this space and create a void it has something similar to an elasticity to it which causes gravity. Just like an elastic that's stretched out wants to draw itself back together this space wants to fill in the void that's occupying it's spcae.

The reason this space has this property is because it's linked and interconnected to black holes. That's illustration C: Those strings are attatched to black holes which pull on the strings. The direction of this is dependent on where the strongest gravitational forces. By this I mean empty space in a concentrated area. Sounds strange I know but picture this.

The strings when stretched out over planets cause gravity. This is the bend in space time because of a large object, it makes sense for things to work this way. This stretching isn't what causes gravity though it's the fact that space is overlaping it's neighbor. One string over another, the larger the object the tighter it is and the more compact this string/space is.

Now what if like a string you could ball this up? Well that high concentrationg of balled up string would be similar to a black hole and also explain why they're attatched to all black holes. Of course not only space which may be very tiny, perhaps the size of a softball to create a star sized ball of matter that's been completely changed in terms of whatever it used to be is attracted and surrounds this ball of "empty" space.

The grid represents a 2D pattern of space, the stars beneath represent what these strings might look like. So if you turned one the other would turn instantaneously, you of course would only notice based on the one you turned but in reality this would stretch all he way through the end of the universe I'd think.

The other diagram I drew up of the circle with the black hole in the center represents the universe seconds before the big bang. This doesn't neccessarily mean it's a reciprocating universe, I don't know how it got to this point but the illustration is meant to show what I think happened to cause the big bang.

I think this super massive, universe sized black hole containing all matter in the universe was trying to draw in the edges of the universe, whatever it consists of I don't know. Basicly, those strings that make up space were being compressed towards the black hole by the walls of the universe being so close to the black hole. Who knows, maybe the universes edge actualy does collapse into the black hole causing the big bang with the mix of the two I'm not sure but I do think this is what caused the big bang. This pressure from the edge of universe being so close to this black hole. Either space from being compressed to it's maximum (squigly line represents a string)

Whichever it was though the explosion was on a universal scale. In fact it was so powerful we're still in it's early stages right now. Compared to a regular explosion there's a point during the explosion that things accelerate, whatever is being pushed by the explosion basicly. Well the acceleration period would be very small before things like friction and gravity cause it to slow down and lose momentum. Well... The edge of the universe doesn't neccessarily have that problem. At least not yet. That might explain why it's still accelerating, or we may still be in those early stages of an explosion. I'm not sure.

Anyway, that's my story.

[Guest]

Shit the pics won't seem to link from that host... oh well check em out if you want.

[FragaGeddon]

Ummmm, no!

[Billy Bellend]

hey you know i think you did 28 before

yea space yea

[mjrpes]

I feel good. I completely read the first paragraph.

[bitWISE]

Way too long. If your ideas came with cliff notes I might be tempted to care.

[tnf]

bangs head against wall.

[tnf]

there is a book called the fabric of reality.
by david deutsch. About parallel universes, time trivel, and the like.

And it sounds like you are trying to describe the fabric of spacetime in the first sentence.

But that is as far as I can read. I am grading research papers on cosmology right now (topics like the big bang, dark matter, black holes, etc.) so I can't take anymore misinformed ramblings. But you are welcome to have them.

[Iccy (temp)]

http://superstringtheory.com/people/bgreene.html


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Greene


have fun

[iambowelfish]

From a Wired article I read recently...

Sometimes in science it's hard to tell the crazy, wildly off-the-mark theories from the brilliant, revolutionary ones. Uncredentialed outsiders claiming to have discovered the unified field theory or cold fusion - in a word, cranks - are always banging on the door of the physics establishment. Sometimes they're literally crazy; sometimes they're just wrong. The establishment turns them away. The thing is, the establishment also depends on crazy ideas - wormholes, quantum foam, 12 dimensions - to move forward.

I think my 16 year old sister is becoming such a crank. She often starts going on about how she saw in her mind how the universe started or the fundamental nature of something or other. She reads New Scientist occasionally but she hasn't even read relevant books and I've not really managed to get it across that she needs to be a much more informed before she starts forming her theories.

If it hasn't already been done someone should collect and publish a book, or maybe a journal of outsider physics. I bet it would make an amusing read with some decent editing (think timecube.com), and among all the crazy ramblings there might be some worthwhile ideas.

[tnf]

http://superstringtheory.com/people/bgreene.html


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Greene


have fun

Don't try to show him this stuff. He is not after actual knowledge here.

[MKJ]

hey you know i think you did 28 before

yea space yea

no, thats 24 youre thinking about

[Denz]

Does this mean you have only had 28 thoughts?

[Ryoki]

Hello Kracus, i would like to lodge a complaint.
Subject of said complaint is the trademarked 'Random Thought' posts, and in particular the manner in which you perverted them (yes, you did).

There used to be a time when Random Thought posts could be about anything; from gazelle behaviour in subzero temperatures to new ways of personal transportation for rodents. Unfortunately these days are gone. Much to my dismay the Random Thought posts have been transformed into a medium for broadcasting misinformation about the galaxy, time space continuums and other such nonesense. This is not good Kracus.

It is not the fact that i personally don't care about any of it. It's not even the fact that that people who do know some basic things point out huge flaws in your Random Thought posts, usually in the first sentance. It's the awful, wildly irrisponsible and dare i say blatantly anti-intellectual combination of the two. Please cease this at once. My wish is you either read a bunch of books on the subject so your Random Thoughts will be more coherent or think of something else - randomly - to write about.

Thank you in advance.

[saturn]

Once I dared to discuss a few moot points about the universe with Kracus, but I quickly realised it was like talking to chalk. It was not in a Random Thought Thread I like to avoid, since reading the inane crap feels like sticking rusty needles in my eyes and frontal lobe.

[Guest]

I know I'm going to get flack for this but I can see how empty space interacts with the rest of the universe. Not just how it interacts but what it's made of. Perhaps the theory is completely off but there is one point I feel is important. Empty space and black holes are definitely connected in some crucial way.

What gives a black hole it's massive gravity field?

[GONNAFISTYA]

I see Kracus had a good dump sometime last weekend.

Otherwise this thread wouldn't exist.

[+JuggerNaut+]

[*OptimusPrime*]

wtf

[tnf]

I know I'm going to get flack for this but I can see how empty space interacts with the rest of the universe. Not just how it interacts but what it's made of. Perhaps the theory is completely off but there is one point I feel is important.
What gives a black hole it's massive gravity field?

BECAUSE IT IS SO DENSE THAT IT WARPS THE FABRIC OF SPACETIME GREATLY - things that cross its event horizon cannot escape (unless we want to talk about Hawking radiation, but I don't even want to venture there....) But all objects with mass bend the fabric of spacetime to some extent. You are using black holes as a key component of your theory, but you don't even really know what they are or how they work. That is the problem with your theories (one of the MANY) - you are clueless about the components that make up the theory. You can't build a theory out of things you don't even remotely understand.

[Guest]

Yes but why is it so dense? What brought it to do this?

The awnser of course you're going to come back with is that it's an old expired sun that eventualy turned into a white dwarf I beleive they're called that forms a black hole.

I think perhaps a reaction in the sun or perhaps after it's expired I'm not sure when warps the fabric of reality and bundles it up into a small ball causing a kink in the string of reality. This kink magnifies gravity to such an extend that all matter outside of this even get's sucked into it at an extremely rediculous rate causing the matter to become extremely dense...

I don't know what the reaction is that causes space, or the fabric of reality to get bunched up but when you think of how this space creates gravity around earth you realize that it's a combination of the space/string/fabric being stretched out against space. This stretching causes gravity but why?

Because it's nature is to be in a neutral position and it has a fixed position in the universe. It HAS to have a fixed position at any single point in time. This doesn't mean it can't change, but it can't be in two places at once, no exceptions.

But something has to keep it in a fixed position. Well... if you think about it, this space causing gravity simply by being warped around an object is everywhere. What if you could do the opposite of what we feel on earth? What if you could take that warped space AROUND the earth and bundle it all into a little ball at the center of the earth what would happen then?

You would have a spot in the universe that has a massive gravity field and the fabric of reality would even be drawn to it making it bigger perhaps until enough matter was packed onto it and made dense enough turning it into what we see as a black hole...

[tnf]

Yes but why is it so dense? What brought it to do this?

The awnser of course you're going to come back with is that it's an old expired sun that eventualy turned into a white dwarf I beleive they're called that forms a black hole.

No. White dwarfs are not black holes. Extremely massive stars will, after using up hydrogen in their core, swell to a red supergiant, fusing heavier elements until iron (most stable atomic nuclei - fusion requires instead of releases energy). These iron cores wil eventually supernova. If the remaining body is under 3 solar masses, it will form a neutron star (neutrons formed from the bombardment of protons by electrons). if it is over 3 solar masses, the core will collapse in on itself to form a singularity (black hole).
White dwards are the remnants of small to medium sized stars. They only go through supernovas if they accrete mass from a nearby object (maybe a red giant) and get hot enough to eventually supernova.

*the 3 solar masses number varies depending on the source you are reading...but its a mass dependant issue...

I think perhaps a reaction in the sun or perhaps after it's expired I'm not sure when warps the fabric of reality and bundles it up into a small ball causing a kink in the string of reality. This kink magnifies gravity to such an extend that all matter outside of this even get's sucked into it at an extremely rediculous rate causing the matter to become extremely dense...

The sun will not bend the fabric of spacetime 'more' when it expires than it does now, because this is a factor of its mass. Gravity IS the bending of spacetime.

I don't know what the reaction is that causes space, or the fabric of reality to get bunched up but when you think of how this space creates gravity around earth you realize that it's a combination of the space/string/fabric being stretched out against space. This stretching causes gravity but why?

There is no reaction that causes space....nevermind, this a waste of time. You do not have the requisite knowledge required to engage in this discussion - so nothing I, or anyone else knowledgeable about the subject tells you - is going to mean much. READ A BOOK. FROM COVER TO COVER.

I'll end with this:
There is not 1 shred of anything remotely close to correct in your Random Thought. Start over.

[Guest]

Extremely massive stars will, after using up hydrogen in their core, swell to a red supergiant, fusing heavier elements until iron (most stable atomic nuclei - fusion requires instead of releases energy). These iron cores wil eventually supernova. If the remaining body is under 3 solar masses, it will form a neutron star (neutrons formed from the bombardment of protons by electrons). if it is over 3 solar masses, the core will collapse in on itself to form a singularity (black hole).

I didn't say it didn't have to be large! You're basicly saying the same thing I am though. Except that you're saying it got crushed on it's own weight so that basicly no object that size can ever exist right? (whatever this size is supposed to be)

Well what if that collapse IS from gravity being so strong it collapses on itself? What happens to the gravity field outside? Why does it suddenly become a black hole?

The only thing that generates gravity is the bend in space. That bend causes a sort of tension in space which is directionaly focused in whatever shape it conforms to. So if that's the only thing causing gravity then the only thing that could cause such massive ammounts of gravity would be an ENOURMOUS object large enough to warp space, which now that I think about it a black hole may very well be OR a concentrated verision of that warp aroudn a planet.

[Guest]

My point is it's density shouldn't matter to make gravity so strong, just the bend in space outside the object does.

[tnf]

My point is it's density shouldn't matter to make gravity so strong, just the bend in space outside the object does.

That is fine if that is your point But the bend in space IS gravity. That is what gravity is. Gravity is one object 'sliding down' a bend if the fabric of spacetime towards a more massive object.

The amount that the fabric is warped depends on the mass of the object. Black holes are so dense that a teaspoonfull might weigh over 100,000,000 tons.