Random Thought #28

Open discussion about any topic, as long as you abide by the rules of course!
tnf
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Post by tnf »

Kracus wrote:
Extremely massive stars will, after using up hydrogen in their core, swell to a red supergiant, fusing heavier elements until iron (most stable atomic nuclei - fusion requires instead of releases energy). These iron cores wil eventually supernova. If the remaining body is under 3 solar masses, it will form a neutron star (neutrons formed from the bombardment of protons by electrons). if it is over 3 solar masses, the core will collapse in on itself to form a singularity (black hole).
I didn't say it didn't have to be large! You're basicly saying the same thing I am though. Except that you're saying it got crushed on it's own weight so that basicly no object that size can ever exist right? (whatever this size is supposed to be)

Well what if that collapse IS from gravity being so strong it collapses on itself? What happens to the gravity field outside? Why does it suddenly become a black hole?

The only thing that generates gravity is the bend in space. That bend causes a sort of tension in space which is directionaly focused in whatever shape it conforms to. So if that's the only thing causing gravity then the only thing that could cause such massive ammounts of gravity would be an ENOURMOUS object large enough to warp space, which now that I think about it a black hole may very well be OR a concentrated verision of that warp aroudn a planet.

I just explained black hole formation to you in 10th grade science terms, but you still aren't getting it. Again, you are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wrong and misinformed about the basic tenets of everything from gravity to dirt that this is a pointless discussion.

There is nothing to discuss anymore.
Guest

Post by Guest »

Right but what does it's density have anything to do with the curve causing gravity is my question? It's just a result of this curve being so large? Is it just random luck that all this matter was drawn together to form the initial start that eventualy grew from there or was it a slight variance in gravity in one area of the universe that did it?
mjrpes
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Post by mjrpes »

tnf wrote:
The amount that the fabric is warped depends on the mass of the object. Black holes are so dense that a teaspoonfull might weigh over 100,000,000 tons.
I thought there wasn't a limit to the density of a blackhole.
tnf
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Post by tnf »

Kracus wrote:Right but what does it's density have anything to do with the curve causing gravity is my question? It's just a result of this curve being so large? Is it just random luck that all this matter was drawn together to form the initial start that eventualy grew from there or was it a slight variance in gravity in one area of the universe that did it?
The more massive an object is, the more it bends spacetime. Put a bowling ball on a bed - what happens? The bed warps. Put smaller marbles on the bed, they roll towards the bowling ball. The mass of the object dictates how much it bends the bed.
Same thing in space.

There, that is as simple as I can explain it, and that analogy has been used thousands of times before.

Black holes are unique because all the mass is crammed into tiny area, so the fabric of spacetime is really, really warped around them.

And, just so you know kracus -

Small to medium sized stars end up as white dwarfs, then black dwarfs.

Large stars will end up as either neutron stars or black holes (both objects are very, very dense).

Only the most massive stars, generally speaking, will form black holes after a supernova.
Pext
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Post by Pext »

that's interresting. is there a theoretical limit? or is there a practical one? (density )
Last edited by Pext on Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
tnf
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Post by tnf »

mjrpes wrote:
tnf wrote:
The amount that the fabric is warped depends on the mass of the object. Black holes are so dense that a teaspoonfull might weigh over 100,000,000 tons.
I thought there wasn't a limit to the density of a blackhole.
I was just throwing out a number to give a sense of perspective.

There would be a minimal limit to the mass.
tnf
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Post by tnf »

Pext wrote:that's interresting. is there a theoretical limit? or is there a practical one?
Its based on the mass of the star initially - fancy math can tell astronomers whether the core resulting will collapse under its own gravity (black hole) or whether things like degenerate neutron or electron pressure will prevent this collapse (neutron star).
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Post by Guest »

tnf wrote:
Kracus wrote: Black holes are unique because all the mass is crammed into tiny area, so the fabric of spacetime is really, really warped around them.
Well that's kinda similar to what I'm saying don't you think? I'm saying that space that's curving around the earth causing gravity is bunched up into a little ball causing the black hole. You're saying it's crammed into a tiny area under it's own gravity causing the fabric of spacetime to warp around them....

Same thing except I have say both spacetime that's warped around causing this massive gravity is still linked to space outside just like it used too. The fabric of reality is definitely linked throughout the universe I'm pretty sure we can agree on that.

So yeah...
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Post by Guest »

Perhaps the fabric of reality can snap if it's expanded too far. Maybe that's what causes the collapse.
losCHUNK
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Post by losCHUNK »

or it could just be space wombles playing tetris with intergalactic imperial starships which are shaped like odour eaters
[color=red] . : [/color][size=85] You knows you knows [/size]
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Post by Guest »

Could be I'll have to look into it though.
tnf
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Post by tnf »

Kracus wrote:
tnf wrote:
Kracus wrote: Black holes are unique because all the mass is crammed into tiny area, so the fabric of spacetime is really, really warped around them.
Well that's kinda similar to what I'm saying don't you think? I'm saying that space that's curving around the earth causing gravity is bunched up into a little ball causing the black hole. You're saying it's crammed into a tiny area under it's own gravity causing the fabric of spacetime to warp around them....

Same thing except I have say both spacetime that's warped around causing this massive gravity is still linked to space outside just like it used too. The fabric of reality is definitely linked throughout the universe I'm pretty sure we can agree on that.

So yeah...
*head banging on table*
tnf
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Post by tnf »

but no man...the space BENDS man...and...and...yea...stars...they work too...the reaction makes the space and the gravity that holds the space together connects the planets to their white dwarfs that have black holes in their centers built on these pillars that bound the walls of teh universe so that it keeps folding.
Billy Bellend
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Post by Billy Bellend »

i havent seen the doctore who for way too long :(
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Scourge
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Post by Scourge »

tnf wrote:but no man...the space BENDS man...and...and...yea...stars...they work too...the reaction makes the space and the gravity that holds the space together connects the planets to their white dwarfs that have black holes in their centers built on these pillars that bound the walls of teh universe so that it keeps folding.
That made me laugh. :)
mjrpes
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Post by mjrpes »

tnf wrote:but no man...the space BENDS man...and...and...yea...stars...they work too...the reaction makes the space and the gravity that holds the space together connects the planets to their white dwarfs that have black holes in their centers built on these pillars that bound the walls of teh universe so that it keeps folding.
Looks like you've overdosed on stupidity, man :(
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GONNAFISTYA
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Post by GONNAFISTYA »

tnf wrote:but no man...the space BENDS man...and...and...yea...stars...they work too...the reaction makes the space and the gravity that holds the space together connects the planets to their white dwarfs that have black holes in their centers built on these pillars that bound the walls of teh universe so that it keeps folding.
:lol:

Fuckin hell...you call yourself a teacher? :lol:

I dare you to teach "Kracus style" one day in school. I dare you to use all those "Sukracinissims" you've just typed.

And then - quickly - snap a picture of the student's blank faces as they try to comprehend the babbling stream of bullshit you just spewed forth.

I'm sure it'd be hilarious.
HM-PuFFNSTuFF
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Post by HM-PuFFNSTuFF »

Image
tnf
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Post by tnf »

GONNAFISTYA wrote:
tnf wrote:but no man...the space BENDS man...and...and...yea...stars...they work too...the reaction makes the space and the gravity that holds the space together connects the planets to their white dwarfs that have black holes in their centers built on these pillars that bound the walls of teh universe so that it keeps folding.
:lol:

Fuckin hell...you call yourself a teacher? :lol:

I dare you to teach "Kracus style" one day in school. I dare you to use all those "Sukracinissims" you've just typed.

And then - quickly - snap a picture of the student's blank faces as they try to comprehend the babbling stream of bullshit you just spewed forth.

I'm sure it'd be hilarious.
Maybe I'll do that during our final review this week, to throw them off. All of the sudden come out of left field with a kracus random thought to try and explain the universe.
Guest

Post by Guest »

Meh I don't really see how both our theory's are any different. I said something causes the fabric to crumple I don't know what but you stated that it's under it's own gravitational field which I'm not saying is wrong. In fact it could very well be but it doesn't change what I'm saying. One way or another that change happens just like I said it would. I didn't know the why but I know the result. Which like I keep telling you is actualy a warp in spacetime or in the fabric of reality. Like balling up a bunch of lint the fabric of reality is balled up at the center of a black hole. When you stretch the material it creates gravity I don't see why the idea of it being balled up seems so strange given the strange phenomenon that consists of a black hole to begin with.
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GONNAFISTYA
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Post by GONNAFISTYA »

*bangs tnf's head against the table for him since he's done it himself twice already this week*
tnf
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Post by tnf »

Kracus wrote:Meh I don't really see how both our theory's are any different. I said something causes the fabric to crumple I don't know what but you stated that it's under it's own gravitational field which I'm not saying is wrong. In fact it could very well be but it doesn't change what I'm saying. One way or another that change happens just like I said it would. I didn't know the why but I know the result. Which like I keep telling you is actualy a warp in spacetime or in the fabric of reality. Like balling up a bunch of lint the fabric of reality is balled up at the center of a black hole. When you stretch the material it creates gravity I don't see why the idea of it being balled up seems so strange given the strange phenomenon that consists of a black hole to begin with.
you were asking earlier why space was bent around stars - i.e. was it just coincidentally bent there or something like that...

Kracus, you really can't even call what you are saying wrong because it is not really addressing the core principles of cosmology.

Maybe this will work better, kracus, if I ask you simple questions so we can see where we stand on this - then your theories, etc., might make more sense.

Don't use google, btw.

1) What is a black hole?
2) Do all stars end up as black holes?
2a) What are the basic stages in the life cycle of a star and what events trigger the transition from one stage to another?
3) How is the effect of gravity actually perpetuated through the universe?
4) What is gravitational lensing?
5) What is an 'event horizon"?
6) Is the universe expanding?
7) Can a universe be finite but not bounded?
8) What are some of the possible 'shapes' of the universe?
9) Is the fabric of spacetime actually smooth (according to quantum mechanics?)
tnf
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Post by tnf »

GONNAFISTYA wrote:*bangs tnf's head against the table for him since he's done it himself twice already this week*
Can I just hire you to punch me in the nuts for a half an hour every time I am about to read one of these threads? I need some sort of deterrent to prevent me from being drawn, like a moth to a flame, from them.
Dave
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Post by Dave »

#5 is a movie, duh
[quote="Duhard"]To survive a war you gotta become the war...teammates are useless.[/quote]
[quote="SOAPboy"]You happen to be out of your league when it comes to games.. so fuck off..[/quote]
[quote="GONNAFISTYA"]
I saw
the "Fist Signal" and
came runnin.
[/quote]
tnf
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Post by tnf »

Dave wrote:#5 is a movie, duh
shh.

don't cheat.
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