Minumum response time on LCDs for gaming

Post by **tnf** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:43 pm

I'm looking at getting an LCD monitor for my gaming machine.

Anybody know what the minimum response time I should aim for is if I want to avoid the shadowing or ghosting or whatever its called is?

Post by **tnf** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:48 pm

How big of a difference will using DVI-D vs. the traditional VGA connection make?

Post by **rep** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:56 pm

It's the best signal you can get. It's digital versus analog.

Riddla is wrong about the 11ms thing.

6ms or lower is alright if you're a newb. The 'wave' is still there, but not as bad as 11ms.

Also, make sure you're reading the real specs. These 4ms models are actually 8ms. :lol:

Just hold off until OLED.

What are they, something like 7000x faster than CRTs, consume less power than LCD, have a killer contrast ratio, perfect black levels, etc.?

They'll be out in a year.

Post by **Brian Slade** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:58 pm

So long as the VGA cable isnt too long, then you wont notice any major difference on most LCD's.
DVI is generally believed to have improved contrast, but I've never noticed the difference.

Post by **tnf** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:58 pm

I'm not going to wait a year, I am trying to streamline my gaming area, and this 50 pound monster CRT that I've got is getting real old. Nice monitor though.

I'm looking at this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824179014

HYUNDAI L90D+ Silver 19" 8ms LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 700:1 Built in Speakers 0.294mm Pixel Pitch - Retail

Post by **Jackal** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:58 pm

Rep, why do you even talk?

Post by **Brian Slade** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:59 pm

And I'd go for 8ms or lower.

Post by **netrex** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:00 pm

I have 8ms and it's no problem. I notice the hang, but it's not interfering with my gaming. The payoff is crystal clear colors and fonts etc.. I'm not going back to CRT anytime soon.

Post by **r3t** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:07 pm

tnf, please ignore rep's ignorant raving. I have an 16ms Hercules Prophetview screen and I have no ghosting whatsoever. I've also seen 16ms screens (from Ilyama and Samsung) from friends and they are very satisfied with them too.
About DVI, I use it and I can see a small difference between DVI and Sub-D. DVI seems to be a bit sharper, but the biggest advantage IMO is that with DVI you don't have to adjust the geometry settings of the display: change resolution and the screen adapts flawlessly.

Post by **-Replicant-** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:08 pm

tnf wrote:I'm not going to wait a year, I am trying to streamline my gaming area, and this 50 pound monster CRT that I've got is getting real old. Nice monitor though.

I'm looking at this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824179014

HYUNDAI L90D+ Silver 19" 8ms LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 700:1 Built in Speakers 0.294mm Pixel Pitch - Retail

from what I've read, the L90 is a great monitor. I'm on a Samsung SyncMaster 930B and I have no problems. I used to at the very beginning, but i've gotten used to it.

if you want to read up on some people's opinions, here's a forum dedicated to displays (and mostly LCDs at that): http://www.hardforum.com/forumdisplay.p ... b016e&f=78

and no, don't listen to rep

Post by **jayP.lq** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:11 pm

tnf wrote:I'm not going to wait a year, I am trying to streamline my gaming area, and this 50 pound monster CRT that I've got is getting real old. Nice monitor though.

I'm looking at this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824179014

HYUNDAI L90D+ Silver 19" 8ms LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 700:1 Built in Speakers 0.294mm Pixel Pitch - Retail

I have that moniter, Its great for games but it really sucks for watching any movie or video clips on you PC. It makes the clip look all washed out, as though the contrast was set really low.

Post by **rep** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:16 pm

Just because you don't see ghosting doesn't mean others won't.

Your eyes aren't as sensitive as mine are, Corky.

Post by **netrex** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:22 pm

I have a BenQ FP937s+. It's 8ms and I do notice the ghosting, but it's not interfering as I said before.

Post by **bag0shite** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:23 pm

I'm with r3t on this. The 16ms response Iiyama 17" panels I've got here are fine in Q3/HL2 etc., don't notice any ghosting. The only downside is they're 6-bit (16.2m colours) so you sometimes notice banding in blended colours (eg open a new photoshop document and do a black --> white gradient and you'll see exactly what I mean) which is less noticeable on 8bit panels and not noticeable on a CRT in 32bit colour mode. I'm using DVI on these (noticeably better than bog-standard VGA) and they're about 18 months or so old now so probably a bit old in technology terms. The 23" Apple LCD I've got is better in colour/blending issues (it's still 8bit so only 24bit colour but I'm confident I'd be able to calibrate it properly and get good colour-matched results from it - I'll still happier using the Iiyama CRT I have for anything colour critical) and I've noticed no ghosting on that for games (albeit I tested for an afternoon as I bought it for the Mac G5/Logic Pro rather than the PC) and that too is a 16ms response panel. The same manufacturers panel is used by Dell in their 20"/24" offerings if you want to save a few $$$ and cut back on the aesthetics.

IIRC you can get panels down to 4ms now from manufacturers like Viewsonic - it's abeen a while since I looked into such things since dropping the wedge on the Apple LCD.

Post by **Jackal** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:34 pm

rep wrote:Just because you don't see ghosting doesn't mean others won't.

Your eyes aren't as sensitive as mine are, Corky.

Do you think that you're some sort of superhero or something rep?

Post by **+JuggerNaut+** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:00 pm

jayP.lq wrote:
tnf wrote:I'm not going to wait a year, I am trying to streamline my gaming area, and this 50 pound monster CRT that I've got is getting real old. Nice monitor though.

I'm looking at this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824179014

HYUNDAI L90D+ Silver 19" 8ms LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 700:1 Built in Speakers 0.294mm Pixel Pitch - Retail

I have that moniter, Its great for games but it really sucks for watching any movie or video clips on you PC. It makes the clip look all washed out, as though the contrast was set really low.

thank the inherent LCD backlighting for that "feature".

Post by **duffman91** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:09 pm

My apple LCD is 16 ms, and it has no ghosting and works great. I suggest trying some out yourself thought. Go to your local store and change the resolutions/refresh rate around till you find an LCD you like

Post by **reefsurfer** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:11 pm

14 for me... works like a charm.. dont think you should go above 24ms.. i've tested 3 different ones before i bought my 14ms ACER.
Tried all 3 on games like Q3,Doom3,painkiller... one had a response of 24ms... no problem at all in Q3.

Post by **SplishSplash** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:37 pm

My LCD is 4 years old and I never noticed any ghosting.

Post by **Cool Blue** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:43 pm

rep wrote:It's the best signal you can get. It's digital versus analog.

Riddla is wrong about the 11ms thing.

6ms or lower is alright if you're a newb. The 'wave' is still there, but not as bad as 11ms.

Also, make sure you're reading the real specs. These 4ms models are actually 8ms. :lol:

Just hold off until OLED.

What are they, something like 7000x faster than CRTs, consume less power than LCD, have a killer contrast ratio, perfect black levels, etc.?

They'll be out in a year.

You lack education.

I just recently purchased a Samsung SyncMaster 915n and it's amazing.

The clarity and contrast over my previous NEC 17 LCD is huge and I never had any ghosting with that monitor either.

Putting the two side by side and playing doom3 for example shows the drastic difference in performance. IMO, you can't go wron with a good 500:1 contrast rating and a response time less than 16ms (8ms is preferrable and pretty much the standard now).

Post by **Deathshroud** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:44 pm

I have a Samsung 172x, 12ms response time and it looks beautiful. No noticable ghosting, etc.

Post by **+JuggerNaut+** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:24 am

Black levels

Post by **Psyche911** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:11 am

My friend drives a Hyundai, and hasn't had any problems with it.

That's about all I can tell you about that monitor.

lol

Post by **MolotovCat** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:48 am

I have a Fuji Plus 19" LCD which I recently purchased from Newegg for $230. I'm running it at 1280x1024 (native res.) with DVI and it looks great. I notice ghosting even though it is 12ms but it's still much nicer than my cruddy 17" Mag CRT.

Post by **+JuggerNaut+** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:50 am

Psyche911 wrote:My friend drives a Hyundai, and hasn't had any problems with it.

that alone would have been funny.