raw's Official Quake4 opinion thread

[ajerara]

I'm looking forward to it cause I like editing with normal maps and all that junk, but as far as gameplay goes, I'm dreading that it will be too slow. I'm not a big SP person, so, I'm hoping on the MP. The anticipation is maybe going to be more fun than the game.

[Azer]

The Quake 4 video's looked quite good imo, except for the gay weapon models, but we can always turn those off.

[DooMer]

The worst move was q1 to q2. q2 is an awesome game, but out of all the id titles (not counting d3) it has the worst multiplayer. I'm not saying q2 mp is shit, but it doesn't hold a candle to q1 or q3.

[DooMer]

Anybody who disagrees with me is a n00b. and gay.

[[xeno]Julios]

I trust they'll have allowed hardcore visual tweaking - an integral part of the competitive quaking culture.

In the video the guy remarks how the movement physics is similar to cpma - not sure how i feel about that. I never learned cpma movement, though a few of my friends who are hardcore cpma rave about it. I also notice that their movement excels in vq3 physics, so I'm assuming cpma physics requires a high degree of mastery.

On the other hand, there is something that cpma physics does not allow for - orthogonal movement - one thing i love about vq3 physics is the ability to turn the xhair 90 degrees from your direction of movement, without significantly changing your movement velocity. This takes skill, but it allows for some simply awesome "drive-by" maneuvers.

Original Quake is where it's at.
And regarding DM, I've come round to Hannibal's way of thinking here: Quake is fun precisely BECAUSE the weapons are unbalanced, not despite the fact.

And it's faster than Q3...

Unfortunately I never played quake1, cept for single player keyboard on a friend's computer. Seen some demos though - some incredible reflexes required for that game...q4 looks to be quite fast though.

I guess weapon imbalance can be good, so long as levels are designed such that they can't be exploited with minimal intelligence (within a 1on1dm context)

[rep]

too bad 6 years of playing left you so skilless

You're a butcher.

[[xeno]Julios]

The worst move was q1 to q2. q2 is an awesome game, but out of all the id titles (not counting d3) it has the worst multiplayer. I'm not saying q2 mp is shit, but it doesn't hold a candle to q1 or q3.

the double jumping in quake2 was frickin awesome tho - wonder if q4 will be anything like it.

also, quake2 (and proly quake1) was different from q4/d3 in that the bugs were truly bugs. They had that raw feel to them - i remember in quake2 you could actually build up RIDICULOUS speed if you caught the edge of a ramped slope repeatedly: there was this one ra2 map that was like a circular bowl (cept the sides of the bowl was rugged rock) - and you could just go round and round the inner perimeter of the bowl and catch the edges of the cliff, and just ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM.

I dunno, but i get the sense that in quake3, they refined the bug into a programming feature - probably a wise move, but still... different.

[^misantropia^]

Not entirely true, julios. Strafejumping in Q2 was an "we don't like it but people are probably gonna get real pissed if we take it out" feature, whereas in Q1 it really was a bug - iD just hadn't considered all the implications Pythagoras imposes on vector movement.

[netrex]

On the other hand, there is something that cpma physics does not allow for - orthogonal movement - one thing i love about vq3 physics is the ability to turn the xhair 90 degrees from your direction of movement, without significantly changing your movement velocity. This takes skill, but it allows for some simply awesome "drive-by" maneuvers.

You can do that in CPMA. When you hold the in strafe you don't turn when you look in a different direction than the one you're moving in.

[Guest]

So whens it coming out?

[R00k]

Supposedly October.

[GONNAFISTYA]

Buncha fuckin gaming nerds. All of you.

[Mat Linnett]

Unfortunately I never played quake1, cept for single player keyboard on a friend's computer. Seen some demos though - some incredible reflexes required for that game...q4 looks to be quite fast though.

I guess weapon imbalance can be good, so long as levels are designed such that they can't be exploited with minimal intelligence (within a 1on1dm context)

Do yerself a favour and pick up a copy, then grab Fuhquake and start out with some Frogbot training.

Servers are still very busy even now, although without some prior experience before jumping online, sooner or later someone's bound to jump on and own you hard. Hence starting out with the Frogbot.
I think I salvaged a lot of decent Fuquake / Frogbot stuff over in id Legends; if not, I can post my Frogbot map rotation configs again...

[Mogul]

QW truly is more alive than any of the other two Quake games, as far as pub games are concerned. Obviously it's not being played pro very much, but there are more active QW players, even in North America, than in any other Quake.

[R00k]

Buncha fuckin gaming nerds. All of you.

Still waiting on your next one, fatty.

[[xeno]Julios]

On the other hand, there is something that cpma physics does not allow for - orthogonal movement - one thing i love about vq3 physics is the ability to turn the xhair 90 degrees from your direction of movement, without significantly changing your movement velocity. This takes skill, but it allows for some simply awesome "drive-by" maneuvers.

You can do that in CPMA. When you hold the in strafe you don't turn when you look in a different direction than the one you're moving in.

it's not true orthogonal movement.

Session Start: Thu Aug 30 19:08:33 2001

[20:39] <[xeno]Julios> in quake2 (havn'et fully tested with q3 but i'm pretty sure same thing)
[20:40] <[xeno]Julios> there is no fundamental differnece between the moveforward and backwards, compared to left and right strafe
[20:40] <arq-away> right
[20:40] <[xeno]Julios> so if u were moving sideways
[20:40] <arq-away> that SO pisses me off in promode
[20:40] <[xeno]Julios> moveforward would be effectively a strafe
[20:40] <[xeno]Julios> which means u can be more creative
[20:40] <[xeno]Julios> with your movement
[20:40] <arq-away> mak and i both pushed for orthogonal air control
[20:40] <[xeno]Julios> YES
[20:40] <[xeno]Julios> exactyly
[20:40] <arq-away> read my column
[20:40] <[xeno]Julios> i don't know why that sounds good
[20:41] <arq-away> "if i ruled the world"
[20:41] <[xeno]Julios> but it's what i'm gettin at i think
[20:41] <[xeno]Julios> linkage!
[20:41] <arq-away> couple months back
[20:41] <[xeno]Julios> set me up with linkage
[20:41] <arq-away> http://www.promode.org/columns/arQon/index.php3?aid=100

[[xeno]Julios]

Not entirely true, julios. Strafejumping in Q2 was an "we don't like it but people are probably gonna get real pissed if we take it out" feature, whereas in Q1 it really was a bug - iD just hadn't considered all the implications Pythagoras imposes on vector movement.

I see.

But did they refine it or tweak it in anyway between q1 and q2? I know they did between q2 and q3, if only because movement physics was quite different (in quake2 you could truly circle jump and get pretty much the same distance as a circle-strafe jump, whereas in quake3 they castrated the pure-circle jump).

[Foo]

The problem is that with current gen games, you need a much larger team, and id refuse to do this. They want to stay in their small 3 man army of death, and while that worked for games that took less than a year to make, it just doesn't work now.

This means that games like doom 3 are easier for them to do, because there just isn't anything there they HAVE to do.

Take a look at Epic. They are working on Gears Of War, Unreal Tourny 2007, and loads more not talked about. They can do this AND pump in massive detail into their engines, because they looked at the work load and did the right thing; Expanded.

As long as id refuse to expand, thye will NEVER make games as good as we want. Its amazing they got Doom 3 out of the door in the state they are in. (Which, was not good. Doom 3 was far far better in the E3 days, then went down hill, then Trent added his sounds and he went up again, then, he left with his sounds and went down hill again. See what a different a good sound guy makes?)

Maybe id will expand in the future, maybe not. But until then, they will NEVER get that old shine back.

Amen.

And I'll add that by now, the guys at id should each be directors of their own departments, as opposed to THE department each.
Take content creation, we should be seeing a team of skinners and a team of modellers.

id software is listed on their own page as less than 30 people.

the UT2004 team by contrast takes up 3 solid pages in the game manual. 18 of those people worked in Epic as dedicated programmers. 18!

there's the 'lean and mean' paradigm, and there's just being stoopid.

[capriker]

Nope, I've never even seen a Q4 screenshot yet. The point is, I stopped caring when id stopped caring about game quality. They became eye-candy whores like Microsoft with their OSs but the difference is, Microsoft OSs actually improve over time. id games don't

ouch