Inf_dm1 Alpha

Post by **Infernis** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:52 pm

I noticed that people get some really quality feedback around here. So since I'm new here I would like to introduce myself with an alpha I had laying around. I already got some feedback on it and changed it a bit, but now I'll throw it for the pro's to tear it apart.

Items really suck! I'm aware of that! Further more, feel free to comment on anything you like or dislike!

Download here

[lvlshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Jugglah/inf_dm1g.jpg[/lvlshot]

Post by **CrinklyArse** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:29 am

i liked your map, i'm suppossing it's a 1v1 with the size of the map by the way

bu overall i thought it was gd fun to play on.
edit: ya definately need a bit more health on there.

Post by **pjw** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:18 am

Infernis wrote:Items really suck! I'm aware of that!

Nah, they don't; it's just your placement of them that's at fault.

Thoughts:
1) Seriously, if you *really* think the item placement sucks, then why even put it up for download? At least get something that you think is workable. I frankly didn't think it was all that horrible, except...

2) No RA? wtf? Or am I stupid and missed it somehow? If you're going to go with only YA, that's an option (albeit a slightly unusual one), but if you do, you should *probably* go with two of them so that the single armor in the map isn't super-important, even in an FFA map...

3) The layout is looking interesting, but for future testing (even for alpha) I'd suggest doing some basic lighting, even if it's just throwing a big light in each major area. I say this because having two textures and no lighting makes it more difficult to tell where you are and get a feel for the map. I finally set r_clear 1 and noclipped up above to get it into my head...then again, I may be senile.

4) I really don't like the reciprocal teles that allow you to bounce back and forth between the two main atriums. I think it would be more interesting if they went to different places (one-way or two-way). Maybe have them go to the two sides instead; have one connect around the YA somewhere and the other connect around the LG somewhere?

Post by **Infernis** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:26 am

Your not senile PJW, I had to be a little clearer, that's all. It's not that I think that the items suck but the guys over at promode beg to differ. Like you said, it's the placement that could do with some improvement. Any suggestions regarding that would be appreciated! The rest of your comments are noted!

CrinklyArse: Thanks.

Post by **sumatra** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:39 am

sumatra wrote:Hi infernis,

after some alphas I'm with you again.
The map developed well, but i have some thoughts though, mostly on items.
I think the map is in need of another armor and more health, better located as well. Also the main weapons are on higher tiers, which isnt good IMO.
I made an itemset with ice, which you can load here.
Just place it in your baseq3 folder and start cpma. It's important you have cpma, cause I dont know any other possibility to get those sets work.

Then go to console and load your map as usual:
/map inf_dm1g
when the map is loaded:
/callvote map !sum_inf_dm1g

I haven't changed any spawnpoints, thats your job, but the main items and by adding one YA. Take this with a grain of salt, that are just some thoughts.

I would also apreciate if you could improve the lower connection from RLroom to YAroom, just make it more interesting and widen it up a bit.

I would also like to see another room, dunno where though!

Teh last thing are the teles, I don't like them, perhaps remove them totally imo.

Good work so far

Just to get you remebered.
I've made an itemset which would work well IMO. Maybe you take a look at..

Hope that helps

EIT: Here is your map including the itemset.

Post by **Infernis** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:59 am

I haven't forgotten you Sumatra! It's just that I don't have CPMA. I'll download it and have a look ok?

Post by **Zyte** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:20 am

I thought it felt kinda slow in osp, in cpma i got the right fast feeling. You should add some shards near spawns and indeed another YA or RA.

Also, I agree on the lightning. All the white/grey can be confusing on picmip 5.

Post by **Todtsteltzer** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:47 am

Infernis wrote:I haven't forgotten you Sumatra! It's just that I don't have CPMA. I'll download it and have a look ok?

There's another way to test alternate item configs (if you want to have a smaller download than cpma

):
- Download d!ablo's Editor (Editor RC05.1 QVM).
- Unzip the downloaded file in a seperate folder of your Q3A install (like a mod)
- Run Q3A with the new installed mod

Now you have an editor to change/edit/replace the items in your map (you'll find a new entry , called "editor" in the menu).
If you have made an alternate item config, open the console and use the command "/editsave cfgname" to save it.
If you want to try an item cfg made by someone else you can use "/editload cfgname". Make sure you have set /sv_pure 0, if you want to load item cfgs that aren't packed in a pk3.

Post by **sumatra** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:45 am

Todtsteltzer wrote: There's another way to test alternate item configs (if you want to have a smaller download than cpma ):
- Download d!ablo's Editor (Editor RC05.1 QVM).
- Unzip the downloaded file in a seperate folder of your Q3A install (like a mod)
- Run Q3A with the new installed mod

Now you have an editor to change/edit/replace the items in your map (you'll find a new entry , called "editor" in the menu).
If you have made an alternate item config, open the console and use the command "/editsave cfgname" to save it.
If you want to try an item cfg made by someone else you can use "/editload cfgname". Make sure you have set /sv_pure 0, if you want to load item cfgs that aren't packed in a pk3.

Yes indeed, forgot to mention that :icon29:
TY Todtsteltzer, what would I do without you

..

Post by **pjw** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:57 pm

Todtsteltzer wrote:
Infernis wrote:I haven't forgotten you Sumatra! It's just that I don't have CPMA. I'll download it and have a look ok?
There's another way to test alternate item configs (if you want to have a smaller download than cpma

Options are a good thing, but I would really encourage you to d/l and play CPMA, if you intend to make seriously competitive maps; it's simply one of the best Q3 mods out there (plus it includes a green/jacket armor, which is a really nice option to add to the YA and RA...).

Promode rocks.

Post by **Oeloe** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:31 am

CPMa owns every other mod. :icon14: Features like loading alternate item configs and changing game modes without map restarting (saves a lot of time and annoyance) should be built into an open source Q3 release.

Edit: @Todsteltzer: You're right. I used that editor too once and it can come in handy.

Post by **Todtsteltzer** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:54 am

I didn't want to discourage Infernis trying CPMA, I only wanted to show an alternate way to test item cfgs (with a small download).
...and with the editor he's able to make item cfgs himself as well what he can't do with CPMA (would be nice though if CPMA would have it's own build-in item editor).

But now back to Infernis' map...

Post by **Infernis** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:54 pm

Ok guys, thanks for all the suggestions. I had this one laying around and I thought I would just post it and I never expected so much replies. Which resulted in me being motivated again to continue this map. Based on all the feedback and a careful examination of my own, I came up with the following questions/ideas and I would like to know how you all feel about them.

Your free to make fun of my lack of PS skills :icon25:

[lvlshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Jugglah/AtriumA.jpg[/lvlshot]

A:I'm worried about this very long line of sight. Your able to see across the entire width of the map and I'm planning on creating a lot of tris so this could work in my disadvantage.
B:So I thought what if I place the door a bit more to side and have a ramp leading to the door. That would cut down the LOS and perhaps be more interesting gameplay wise.
C:I figured some pillars could be placed to function as cover during combat. I could make the room a bit wider so that the player has got more room to maneuver.

[lvlshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Jugglah/AtriumB.jpg[/lvlshot]

The same as above actually. Make the atrium a bit wider so there is more room to maneuver. To do that I thought what if I remove the big blocks that make up the upper levels and let it be based on pillars instead. This way players can find cover and there is more room. I would remove the teleporter above and place it where the T is. Also the teleporter would lead to YA room instead of the other teleporter.

[lvlshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Jugglah/los1.jpg[/lvlshot]

A:There is a huge line of sight again covering the entire width of the map. Due to heave detailing I'm afraid of performance hits. I want to resolve that by closing one part.

[lvlshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Jugglah/YA.jpg[/lvlshot]

A:Again creating more room by having some of the upper levels resting on pillars.

[lvlshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Jugglah/stairs.jpg[/lvlshot]

A:I was thinking on making a hole so that players can jump down for anyone trying to grab the YA.
B:In addition to that I was thinking about swapping the stairs so that I can place the YA more nearer to the hole and also limit the LOS even further.

Based on your reactions to the above, I'll create another alpha using evilair his template textures and I'll use light ents to make it more test friendly. I'll leave the item placement for last. Those of you who commented on it are not forgotten, it's only postponed!

Post by **Todtsteltzer** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:09 pm

Hmm, a bit quiet in here during the last two days, so I'll post some thoughts to keep your motivation up

.

I think breaking some of the LOS is a good idea, I'm not sure about the pillars in pic 1 though. It seems to me that adding pillars will make this room too cramped.
Pics 2 & 4: I'm not sure if it's necessary to enhance the space in this rooms. I prefer playing the map in tourney mode or small FFA (4 players max) and the amount of space seems ok for me.
Pic 3: I really liked where sumatra placed the quad (between the two "doors" in the room shown on pic 3), I had the same idea when taking a short look at the map. In fact I thought it would be nice to have a 'big' item there and remove the JP in this room to make the escape - after picking up the item - a bit harder. This idea won't work though if the second "door" will disappear.
Pic 5: The hole is a good idea IMO.

I hope to see another version soon

.

Edit: Btw. although I like sumatra's item placement, it would be nice to have a different item layout for tourney matches. I may give the items a try when you've released another alpha/beta.

Post by **StormShadow** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:01 pm

Your changes in the first pic look good, all except for the pillars. Having one or two rooms relatively open is not necesarilly a bad thing - particularly in a map with no railgun.

For DM, maybe put an RA or quad in the current RL location, and move the RL to the lower level. And maybe even add a 2nd rl.

All of the other changes look pretty good.. looking forward to the next beta

Post by **Infernis** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:14 pm

Todtsteltzer:I was thinking about making some minor changes which would make the ground floor a bit bigger and make it gently increase in height instead of the sudden leap it takes now. This would spread out that room a bit more, but perhaps your right. You can already duck below the bridge as well so there should be enough cover. So you do agree on replacing the door?

Adjusting the space in pic 2 & 4 would do the design I had in mind more justice. Besides I feel the width in comparison to the height is bit too much, so that's where I'm coming from. Any comments?

I have to check the config before I can reply to the comment regarding the Quad. Had some troubles getting it to work. But what If I place a big item where the JP is now? sort of a dead end!

I'm glad your enthusiastic about it, thanks man!

StormShadow:Agreed as mentioned above and I'll keep those item changes in mind.

Thanks for the support guys.

Post by **Anwulf** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:11 am

Infernis, I assume that this is exactly the same version of the map that you had over on the Map-Center. Looks like it.

Post by **Infernis** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:07 am

It is, I didn't get around to doing anything further with it. But I posted it here for fun but and as you can see I got a lot of reactions so I'm back to it. I still got your email so I haven't forgot what you said!

What do you think of my suggested changes?

Post by **Anwulf** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:55 am

Problem is that wherever your images are being hosted, they're getting blocked so I can't see what changes you're proposing. I'll have to wait for the next version to see what you've done with it.

I've now got an Internet connection from my flat which seems reasonably reliable and at least I can dl the map.

Post by **Infernis** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:49 am

I could mail them if you want me to. They aren't that big and I could always zip them up to shrink it even further.

Post by **Todtsteltzer** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:55 am

Infernis, here are a few pics to give you an impression of the major changes of sumatra's item layout (sorry, Anwulf, pics again

):

sumatra added a RG in front of the JP (hard to see because of the color of the floor)...
[lvlshot]http://www.todtsteltzer.de.vu/feedback/inf_dm1g/inf_dm1g_01.jpg[/lvlshot]

The quad was moved in this room...
[lvlshot]http://www.todtsteltzer.de.vu/feedback/inf_dm1g/inf_dm1g_02.jpg[/lvlshot]

A second YA was added and the RL was moved in the corridor in the background...
[lvlshot]http://www.todtsteltzer.de.vu/feedback/inf_dm1g/inf_dm1g_03.jpg[/lvlshot]

As said before, I really like the placement of the quad and I think this spot will also work, if the JP in this room would be removed. Removing the JP and the second "door" would make it too much of a trap though. In this case you should think of another (hard) way out of this room (maybe some bricks sticking out of the wall so you can jump up to the level above).

Post by **Infernis** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:54 pm

I'm off from work the next 2 days so I can try to get that item layout working an perhaps work on another version of the alpha. Thanks for posting those shots Todtsteltzer.

I like the whole Quad idea but I got to seal the left door in order to block VIS. I could leave it open but then the other rooms would have to undergo serious changes. But isn't it possible to seal the left door and remove the JP in the room where the newly placed Quad is?

Instead of the JP we could make some bricks stick out, like you suggested, to provide a hard way out after getting the Quad. You can also jump down from above to get the Quad. But because of the sealed left door you are unable to tell if people are waiting for you on the other side. Which could provide some tactical advantages for players that hear that you picked up the Quad. Especially with the RG and the JP nearby to ambush you from above.

Just a thought though :icon25:

Post by **Anwulf** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:17 am

Infernis, if you want to send me the pictures, go ahead.

I can't see the images Todt's posted either. Sigh. Oh to be living in a country where they have a grown up attitude towards the Net.

Post by **Infernis** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:26 pm

Anyone else?

Todt?

Post by **Todtsteltzer** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:52 pm

I would say, go ahead and make the changes as discussed. For example close the left "door" in the new quad room, remove the JP there but add a harder way to get out to give the quad taker another way to escape from this room. It would be easier to have something to work with as just talking about it

.

Sorry, I was out of the town the whole day since 6 a.m. (business) and I'm really tired (it's 10.50 p.m. now). Probably I'll post some more comments tomorrow.

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