rgoer works at RavenDenz wrote:Well as an EX-Raven Employee, what does thread have to do with anything? Can't we geto someone that still works there? Perhaps our comments may make a difference.
a poll, of sorts, from an ex raven guy
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Freakaloin
- Posts: 10620
- Joined: Tue May 07, 2002 7:00 am
Well, I started this thread out of simple curiosity - my curiousity.Denz wrote:Well as an EX-Raven Employee, what does thread have to do with anything? Can't we geto someone that still works there? Perhaps our comments may make a difference.
But I'm hoping to spend some time soon with various people still employed at Raven - as long as that works out I'll try to get any points you guys have made, to them, face to face.
And one of those faces is Eric Beissman, project lead on Quake4.
So hopefully this tread will be "more" than a "theoretical" discusion.
1. yes
2. 8/10
3. haven't touched SP.. to be honest i could care less, its all about the multiplayer crack fix :P
can you please you find out who's idea it was to remake q3tourney6 (xaero space map) because its obvious they never played 1 hour worth of q3 multiplayer to realize that its one of the worst maps from q3. whoever's idea it was to remake this map needs to be taken out back and kicked in the balls. we already get a limited number of mp maps because the game has to satisfy both SP and MP.. i understand that, but with a limited number, that extra slot for a map could have been used on something far better! perhaps q3dm6.. which o'dium is making a great remake of as we speak.
2. 8/10
3. haven't touched SP.. to be honest i could care less, its all about the multiplayer crack fix :P
can you please you find out who's idea it was to remake q3tourney6 (xaero space map) because its obvious they never played 1 hour worth of q3 multiplayer to realize that its one of the worst maps from q3. whoever's idea it was to remake this map needs to be taken out back and kicked in the balls. we already get a limited number of mp maps because the game has to satisfy both SP and MP.. i understand that, but with a limited number, that extra slot for a map could have been used on something far better! perhaps q3dm6.. which o'dium is making a great remake of as we speak.
My answer would be this: the doom3 / quake 4 engine is simply not as "scalable" as the source engine.
i don't mean these in a good vs. bad sense, just simple facts.
drawing a "simple, 1 texture" wall in quake4 requires 4 textures blended together to produce "the final effect" you, the player, sees on that wall.
also, stencil shadows create a great deal of "unseen overdraw", as "freeshanding shadows", in the engine's view... are no less real than what the player sees as real.
quake4 also uses true skeleton / bone animation, which is another resource hog.
i "think", for multiplayer, the hit box has been brought down to Q3 level, ie... a simple recatgular volume, to make hit calculations much less CPU intensive.
don't quote me on that last one.
i don't mean these in a good vs. bad sense, just simple facts.
drawing a "simple, 1 texture" wall in quake4 requires 4 textures blended together to produce "the final effect" you, the player, sees on that wall.
also, stencil shadows create a great deal of "unseen overdraw", as "freeshanding shadows", in the engine's view... are no less real than what the player sees as real.
quake4 also uses true skeleton / bone animation, which is another resource hog.
i "think", for multiplayer, the hit box has been brought down to Q3 level, ie... a simple recatgular volume, to make hit calculations much less CPU intensive.
don't quote me on that last one.
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Freakaloin
- Posts: 10620
- Joined: Tue May 07, 2002 7:00 am
Humm well lets see
Single player is decent but nothing i havent seen before and kind of lack luster. The AI is horrible, feels like im fighting brainless zombies.
Multiplayer is good minus the buggy movment system. Have yall seen the trick jumping video where they used nail gun while someone was on top of the person to climb into the sky?? WTF????
The whole slide on the ground this is pretty silly as well. Get some speed and crouch just before you land and slide along the ground wtf thanks raven.
My biggest rants are this.
Who the Hell thought it would be fun thing to add ORANGE player models on ORANGE backgrounds for MUltiplayer???? I get headaches trying to find people on the maps and since i play in high resolutions this is quite painful. By default there should be support for Bright Skins..
Next would be the movment bobbing that you cant turn off... Sigh what ever... Also the fact that my setting are never saved correctly.
Last small rant is they changed the GIBS from quakecon.. BOOO i loved the gibs at quakecon. Heads popping off and brains splattering out on man that was great. Now we have some lackluster bs.
Quake4 as Single 6.5
Quake4 Multiplayer 8
Multiplayer is good minus the buggy movment system. Have yall seen the trick jumping video where they used nail gun while someone was on top of the person to climb into the sky?? WTF????
The whole slide on the ground this is pretty silly as well. Get some speed and crouch just before you land and slide along the ground wtf thanks raven.
My biggest rants are this.
Who the Hell thought it would be fun thing to add ORANGE player models on ORANGE backgrounds for MUltiplayer???? I get headaches trying to find people on the maps and since i play in high resolutions this is quite painful. By default there should be support for Bright Skins..
Next would be the movment bobbing that you cant turn off... Sigh what ever... Also the fact that my setting are never saved correctly.
Last small rant is they changed the GIBS from quakecon.. BOOO i loved the gibs at quakecon. Heads popping off and brains splattering out on man that was great. Now we have some lackluster bs.
Quake4 as Single 6.5
Quake4 Multiplayer 8
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AfterDeath
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:00 pm
1. Yes
2. 9
3. I was almost afraid to pick up Q4 but after Reefsurfer told me how good it was, I ran out and got it.
The overall look of the game is tight. I love the machine gun model but the other models looks a little unispired. But hey, they get the job done and that is alright.
This is actually the first time I have not got completely bored of playing the SP part of a game and finished it through. But, I found the ending to be a little weak.
Voice acting was awesome in the SP campaign. And the different personalities of the people in the squads rocked.
I haven't done much MP yet. But the 1 on 1 I have done so far was good old DM that kept me on the edge. I almost forgot how much fun it is to just DM and not worry about squad based stuff.
Hopefully some folks will make new weapon and player models for MP like we got for Q3.
2. 9
3. I was almost afraid to pick up Q4 but after Reefsurfer told me how good it was, I ran out and got it.
The overall look of the game is tight. I love the machine gun model but the other models looks a little unispired. But hey, they get the job done and that is alright.
This is actually the first time I have not got completely bored of playing the SP part of a game and finished it through. But, I found the ending to be a little weak.
Voice acting was awesome in the SP campaign. And the different personalities of the people in the squads rocked.
I haven't done much MP yet. But the 1 on 1 I have done so far was good old DM that kept me on the edge. I almost forgot how much fun it is to just DM and not worry about squad based stuff.
Hopefully some folks will make new weapon and player models for MP like we got for Q3.
I only want to add the comments made by the competitive community. The mp just dosen't feel very well put together. You guys should of hire someone from the osp/cpma mods or something. Issues like not allowing a ton of cvars to work online, bad voting, shoddy maps, better ligthing for mp (like vertex, which would make a ton of machines work faster), a big problem with getting custom maps to work, etc. etc. It just hampers the online experience a lot.
I'll just post a few threads from esreality, as I don't want to re-post stuff here, and if you feel like reading them then great:
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=917295
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=916420
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=916292
Read the comments made by the people if you can (might have to ignore some of the lammas though) there are probably a lot more post but those right there sum it up pretty nicely.
I'll just post a few threads from esreality, as I don't want to re-post stuff here, and if you feel like reading them then great:
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=917295
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=916420
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=916292
Read the comments made by the people if you can (might have to ignore some of the lammas though) there are probably a lot more post but those right there sum it up pretty nicely.
THE UNREAL TOURNAMENT GUY IS NOT FLAMING! THIS IS JUST MY HONEST OPINION!
This is just the views of a guy that bought a game he never played before, and what his thoughts are. I thought the person that asks for insight would like to know what a new person to the game might think about it.
1. Sure, it's been a fun experience
2. 5/10
3. The game is beta quality at best. Tons of bugs, just look through this forum. I don't know if the game engine is just a piece of crap or if the game was just coded carelessly. Patches aren't the answer I'm looking for, I want to know why the multiplayer server list is broken, it's things like that which show the carelessness of the creators. Patches should be made only when little bugs are found by someone with a random PC setup which happened to be untested by the creators before release, not to fix something that should work right out of the box. This is the worst quality in games I've ever come across, it's pretty ridiculous. I don't know if the Quake community is just used to it and is desensitized from it, or what. I see people complain about how crappy it is and then say it's the best game ever made. This is the first Quake game I ever played, so I don't know how the quality of past games has been.
Single player should be called Doom 3.5: Better Lighting, it's the same game, same layout, and it's still boring. The whole alien/monster invasion thing has been done to death, so I don't care for it. I didn't buy the game for the single player anyway.
Multiplayer is really fun. I seen now why people have played Quake 3 for many years, it's pretty addicting. It has bugs, and a lot of issues like player visibility, but the core fun of the game outshines the bad for the most part. It made the purchase worthwhle and if the bugs weren't there I would have gave the entire game something like a 8/10.
This is just the views of a guy that bought a game he never played before, and what his thoughts are. I thought the person that asks for insight would like to know what a new person to the game might think about it.
1. Sure, it's been a fun experience
2. 5/10
3. The game is beta quality at best. Tons of bugs, just look through this forum. I don't know if the game engine is just a piece of crap or if the game was just coded carelessly. Patches aren't the answer I'm looking for, I want to know why the multiplayer server list is broken, it's things like that which show the carelessness of the creators. Patches should be made only when little bugs are found by someone with a random PC setup which happened to be untested by the creators before release, not to fix something that should work right out of the box. This is the worst quality in games I've ever come across, it's pretty ridiculous. I don't know if the Quake community is just used to it and is desensitized from it, or what. I see people complain about how crappy it is and then say it's the best game ever made. This is the first Quake game I ever played, so I don't know how the quality of past games has been.
Single player should be called Doom 3.5: Better Lighting, it's the same game, same layout, and it's still boring. The whole alien/monster invasion thing has been done to death, so I don't care for it. I didn't buy the game for the single player anyway.
Multiplayer is really fun. I seen now why people have played Quake 3 for many years, it's pretty addicting. It has bugs, and a lot of issues like player visibility, but the core fun of the game outshines the bad for the most part. It made the purchase worthwhle and if the bugs weren't there I would have gave the entire game something like a 8/10.
1) yes
2) 8.5
3) hoping these things are adrressed in the next patch.
- I want some cool MP models with personality such as Sarge or Major in Q3. I think Q4 marine models are too normal and generic, not to mention no single female model
- footstep sound is too annoying, if possible, some different sounds
- diffrenet grunt/death sounds for all the MP models
- double jumping/ stair jumping
2) 8.5
3) hoping these things are adrressed in the next patch.
- I want some cool MP models with personality such as Sarge or Major in Q3. I think Q4 marine models are too normal and generic, not to mention no single female model
- footstep sound is too annoying, if possible, some different sounds
- diffrenet grunt/death sounds for all the MP models
- double jumping/ stair jumping
Last edited by cloud4me on Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
1.YES
2.9
3.Female skin
Q2 had them it won't be the same with out it.
More MP maps made by id or raven.
I know we are gonna get loads from other mappers.
Fix the hud so we can see the score in demos like in q3, maybe a stats bind and place the chat at top.
Able to use some tweaks in multiplayer like mouseaccel, displayrefresh, all the bob cmds and maybe make the console drop down instead of adding it to the quake4.exe shortcut.
RL is fine after playing the game for a while at frist it seem slow but not any more.
2.9
3.Female skin
Q2 had them it won't be the same with out it.
More MP maps made by id or raven.
I know we are gonna get loads from other mappers.
Fix the hud so we can see the score in demos like in q3, maybe a stats bind and place the chat at top.
Able to use some tweaks in multiplayer like mouseaccel, displayrefresh, all the bob cmds and maybe make the console drop down instead of adding it to the quake4.exe shortcut.
RL is fine after playing the game for a while at frist it seem slow but not any more.
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1. Yes
2. 9/10
3. Good - graphics, game play, weapon balance is superb, Tourney Mode, Sudden death in both DM and CTF, projectile interaction with teleports, grenade interaction with jump pads, map selection is very good considering Multiple Player focus wasn't as high of a priority as Single Player
Bad - CTF needs a grapple because it's more fun and helps differentiate it more from Team DM, Player models should have more variety of at least color so it's easier to see the opponent - bright skins would be great, lack of scripting is frustrating - I should be able to bind a weapon and associate it to a different FOV and Sensitivity, Game Browser lacks basic functionality - filters, favorites, and reportedly there are errors in ping reporting.
Editorial - I've read more than one comment that the game feels like a beta and it was rushed and I couldn't disagree more. The game plays well and for a first release has relatively few errors compared to other games in this genre. Also, the Very End of You remake is very fun as is the Dark Matter gun. I think players have preconceived ideas that high-powered weapons aren't fun and shouldn't be in the game - give it a chance.
2. 9/10
3. Good - graphics, game play, weapon balance is superb, Tourney Mode, Sudden death in both DM and CTF, projectile interaction with teleports, grenade interaction with jump pads, map selection is very good considering Multiple Player focus wasn't as high of a priority as Single Player
Bad - CTF needs a grapple because it's more fun and helps differentiate it more from Team DM, Player models should have more variety of at least color so it's easier to see the opponent - bright skins would be great, lack of scripting is frustrating - I should be able to bind a weapon and associate it to a different FOV and Sensitivity, Game Browser lacks basic functionality - filters, favorites, and reportedly there are errors in ping reporting.
Editorial - I've read more than one comment that the game feels like a beta and it was rushed and I couldn't disagree more. The game plays well and for a first release has relatively few errors compared to other games in this genre. Also, the Very End of You remake is very fun as is the Dark Matter gun. I think players have preconceived ideas that high-powered weapons aren't fun and shouldn't be in the game - give it a chance.
- Jason
1. Yep.
2. 7.
3. MP needs a few fixes. Stairs, footsteps, weight, illogical FR lagging, etc. I couldn't care less about SP, as it bores me to death.
With a bit of luck the game will shine when modders start doing some real work to MP.
---
P.S:
"alucardx" wrote:
"i could care less"
I really have to point out that the phrase is: "I couldn't care less". Meaning: I have absolutly no capacity to care at all as I am at the extent of my lack of caring, rather than using "could" which implies you don't care, but you are not at the extent of your lack of caring as you are able to care a bit.
So: I couldn't care less.
I'm not sure why the American dictation of this phrase words it in this way, but it's fairly annoying that it's wrong yet is continuously incorrectly used.
Cheers
2. 7.
3. MP needs a few fixes. Stairs, footsteps, weight, illogical FR lagging, etc. I couldn't care less about SP, as it bores me to death.
With a bit of luck the game will shine when modders start doing some real work to MP.
---
P.S:
"alucardx" wrote:
"i could care less"
I really have to point out that the phrase is: "I couldn't care less". Meaning: I have absolutly no capacity to care at all as I am at the extent of my lack of caring, rather than using "could" which implies you don't care, but you are not at the extent of your lack of caring as you are able to care a bit.
So: I couldn't care less.
I'm not sure why the American dictation of this phrase words it in this way, but it's fairly annoying that it's wrong yet is continuously incorrectly used.
Cheers
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MidnightQ4
- Posts: 520
- Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:59 pm
1 Yes
2 7.5
3 From a competitive stand point, the game is sorely lacking compared to what "could have been" implemented. I haven't even played the single player, which is time wasted imo. I feel like the multiplayer was rushed and there wasn't anyone knowledgeable at raven to work on any mp needs of the game. By this I mean the things that you just wouldn't know that are needed unless you had experience playing q3 mp etc.
There are a lot of minor things in mp that add up to reducing the game from a 9.9 to a 7.5. Some of these are:
The sluggish feel of movement. Is floor friction lower vs q3? It feels like when you move one way you end up all leaned over and it takes a while to go a different way. Q3 movement was much more crisp and precise. Bring back the precision.
Player skins that are hard to see and hard to distinguish friend from foe in team games.
Inability to tweak cvars client side unless the server has them set. This just causes poor performance and makes ppl want to stop playing the game when they get drops to 10 fps in mp and have to run at 640 with horrible looking graphics. Not to mention the view bob is the worst feature ever. I cannot play on any servers but my own because view bob makes me naucious in about 5 minutes and I have to stop playing.
There is no ability to connect to a server as a spectator. wtf?
Maps, not enough of them. Especially the TDM maps, which is what this game is mostly about imo. The maps that are present are fairly good however, I'd give some of them 7/10.
Cannot put maps or brightskin packs on servers and simply have them dowload to the client? WTF?
Overall, just feels like some artist ppl had their way with the game with zero regard for actual playability and needs of competitive players. Come on, make players more visible, who cares about realizm.
Graphics, somehow I expected more. Of course I have to play with everything on the lowest setting for performance reasons, but even at the regular setting it just doesn't look that much better than q3. It seems the Unreal 3 engine is way ahead in this dept even though granted it is not out yet.
Some good points:
Voting, it is almost good enough to use. One notable thing that is missing is ability to vote the max players, yet you can vote min players, what is the point of that one? Should be able to have server configured game type setups that you can vote for however, such as a TDM config, a CTF config etc that would have much more control over the details than what is present in the gui.
I like how weapons are balanced differently for FFA vs Team games, about time someone balanced each weapon for the gametype. Bravo.
2 7.5
3 From a competitive stand point, the game is sorely lacking compared to what "could have been" implemented. I haven't even played the single player, which is time wasted imo. I feel like the multiplayer was rushed and there wasn't anyone knowledgeable at raven to work on any mp needs of the game. By this I mean the things that you just wouldn't know that are needed unless you had experience playing q3 mp etc.
There are a lot of minor things in mp that add up to reducing the game from a 9.9 to a 7.5. Some of these are:
The sluggish feel of movement. Is floor friction lower vs q3? It feels like when you move one way you end up all leaned over and it takes a while to go a different way. Q3 movement was much more crisp and precise. Bring back the precision.
Player skins that are hard to see and hard to distinguish friend from foe in team games.
Inability to tweak cvars client side unless the server has them set. This just causes poor performance and makes ppl want to stop playing the game when they get drops to 10 fps in mp and have to run at 640 with horrible looking graphics. Not to mention the view bob is the worst feature ever. I cannot play on any servers but my own because view bob makes me naucious in about 5 minutes and I have to stop playing.
There is no ability to connect to a server as a spectator. wtf?
Maps, not enough of them. Especially the TDM maps, which is what this game is mostly about imo. The maps that are present are fairly good however, I'd give some of them 7/10.
Cannot put maps or brightskin packs on servers and simply have them dowload to the client? WTF?
Overall, just feels like some artist ppl had their way with the game with zero regard for actual playability and needs of competitive players. Come on, make players more visible, who cares about realizm.
Graphics, somehow I expected more. Of course I have to play with everything on the lowest setting for performance reasons, but even at the regular setting it just doesn't look that much better than q3. It seems the Unreal 3 engine is way ahead in this dept even though granted it is not out yet.
Some good points:
Voting, it is almost good enough to use. One notable thing that is missing is ability to vote the max players, yet you can vote min players, what is the point of that one? Should be able to have server configured game type setups that you can vote for however, such as a TDM config, a CTF config etc that would have much more control over the details than what is present in the gui.
I like how weapons are balanced differently for FFA vs Team games, about time someone balanced each weapon for the gametype. Bravo.
Multiplayer had to be slapped together in a few shorts months (and when I say few, more like 1-2). I would say 85-90% of the work went to the SP portion of the game. That's the only explanation why MP has so many problems. It was probably slapped together right in the middle of crunchtime.riddla wrote:Somewhat.Question 1: Are you glad you have it in your hands now?
This is a simple pass / fail test. No other answer is required
6Quesion 2: On a scale of 1-10 - give it a number, no explanations.
a. The lack of any real attention paid to anything mods did to improve Q3. Hello? Too many optimizations to even begin to list, its almost like there weren't that many hardcore Q3 players even working on this game or management said "BY CHRISTMAS SEASON 2005 OR ESLE" ...bah humbug.Question 3: rant and rave about any aspect of the game as long as you'd like - rant about the junk you hate and rave about what you like. Cohesive and constructive thoughts would be appreciated, but not required.
b. Team Arena CTF again? It didnt fly the first time, what made someone think that slapping it into Q4 would have a different result? Class-based CTF was always a bad concept any way you sliced it. If you could maybe drop the powerups plus they spawned in random locales and there was one set like the main 4 runes in established CTF mods it could possibly be a hair better, but I doubt it.
c. The total disrespect paid to CTF altogether. Through 4 quake games in almost a decade now I've kept telling myself 'maybe next time they'll pay attention to this amazing gametype called CTF and possibly look at how big it is in other franchises where some attention was given to CTF and its gameplay. This game could attain greatness with a proper CTF implementation. I'd bet the farm on it
d. lack of overall polish. I love the game, but I'd be delusional if I couldnt admit it needed about another solid year's worth of work to be worthy of calling anything over a 6 in its current state.
Thanks for comments everybody, even the negs...
I'll try to point out this tread to some of the team that is still over there at raven.
the lack of a female model for MP irritates me also.
and q2 ctf was my favorite ctf so i hear ye's on the grapple issue.
as far as needing more time to polish.. not sure i could talk about that without violating my NDA. that's just the way it is.
I'll try to point out this tread to some of the team that is still over there at raven.
the lack of a female model for MP irritates me also.
and q2 ctf was my favorite ctf so i hear ye's on the grapple issue.
as far as needing more time to polish.. not sure i could talk about that without violating my NDA. that's just the way it is.
Re: a poll, of sorts, from an ex raven guy
its against my better judgment to post in this place, but when I saw this I couldnt resist.
2: Because of the bugs and other things that take away from the fun of playing it I have to give it a 5. raven/id/activision (whoever had more control over the MP portion of the game)should have tested it more before release. examples of bugs and "other things" I mentioned arent limited to these but ill be brief as possible: bug-the console disappears sometimes, in sp and mp...for obvious reasons this is a very big problem. "other things"- it isnt possible to strafejump up curved stairs. this just seems stupid, and whoever let this slip by needs to be beat in the middle of a very-populated public gathering(4th of july in Times Square, for example).
3:Even though It feels like quake 3 in some respects, in others it just feels like a sad UT2k4 ripoff...they went too hard for graphics instead gameplay and I hate that. there is one too many weapons...either the nailgun or the hyperblaster should have been left out. having 2 of what are essentially quake 3 plasmaguns is overkill.
I love the game...rather I love "quake" itself. Im hoping there will be alot of changes and fixes soon that should have been made before the game was released. There are way too many games getting released in a halfassed state, for whatever reason game makers are doing it, and games that have/had alot of potential just arent on the level they should/could have been. Guild Wars was the other recent tragedy in the gaming world. why do I say tragedy for them both? They both should have been alot more than what they are, but they didnt get the development-attention they deserved.
1: thats not as simple a question as one would think it should be, but, I will say this: Imo Raven should have spent more time on it. I would have happily waited for a finished game even if it took another year...(it is quake afterall!) I havent played much (nearly none) of the single player of this game(and honestly I dont care about it), what I have played it seems fun. but the multiplayer (which is what the majority of people, including myself, bought the game for) just seems unfinished.tequila! wrote: Question 1: Are you glad you have it in your hands now?
This is a simple pass / fail test. No other answer is required
Quesion 2: On a scale of 1-10 - give it a number, no explanations.
Question 3: rant and rave about any aspect of the game as long as you'd like - rant about the junk you hate and rave about what you like. Cohesive and constructive thoughts would be appreciated, but not required.
2: Because of the bugs and other things that take away from the fun of playing it I have to give it a 5. raven/id/activision (whoever had more control over the MP portion of the game)should have tested it more before release. examples of bugs and "other things" I mentioned arent limited to these but ill be brief as possible: bug-the console disappears sometimes, in sp and mp...for obvious reasons this is a very big problem. "other things"- it isnt possible to strafejump up curved stairs. this just seems stupid, and whoever let this slip by needs to be beat in the middle of a very-populated public gathering(4th of july in Times Square, for example).
3:Even though It feels like quake 3 in some respects, in others it just feels like a sad UT2k4 ripoff...they went too hard for graphics instead gameplay and I hate that. there is one too many weapons...either the nailgun or the hyperblaster should have been left out. having 2 of what are essentially quake 3 plasmaguns is overkill.
I love the game...rather I love "quake" itself. Im hoping there will be alot of changes and fixes soon that should have been made before the game was released. There are way too many games getting released in a halfassed state, for whatever reason game makers are doing it, and games that have/had alot of potential just arent on the level they should/could have been. Guild Wars was the other recent tragedy in the gaming world. why do I say tragedy for them both? They both should have been alot more than what they are, but they didnt get the development-attention they deserved.
What about the administrators?
I can not answer the two first questions since I haven't played the game, I just host a server.
However it is quite obvious to me that none or at least none of the persons with power who made this game have been a server administrator. I conclude with this because of the none existences of administration utilities and the lack of logging.
With quake 3 arena and all the games based on this engine, I as a administrator could to a certain level follow a game from the console. This allowed me to a have at least a little control over my servers and the opportunity to not only give instructions, but receive information from players in the game. As it is right now I have to join a game to get any feedback from players, mainly because chatting isn't presented on the console any more, but also because it isn't logged. If this is because of some private protection of the players I can see why you did it, but the negative aspects from a administration point of view is much higher than the fear of given away someone's email address.
For a normal player who only plays for the share fun of it, the consequences of the fact presented above might not be clear. However the moment he/she wants to join a clan or even start one with some fellow players, they might want to produce a ranking or clan statistic, which might help them become better and allow comparison with other clans. This of course does not only apply to clans, but it might be more obvious to them since the ability to create good statistic is gone.
My point is that as long as we do not have a SDK to create at least a server mod which creates accurate logs and print out information on the console, this game is a pain in the ass for an administrator who likes some sort of control or feedback from his players. Especially if you run a public server without a big and faithful player base, since most players never bother to tell the administrator if something could be changed, they just change server.
I hope that all modifications (mods) which are in production or in planning, at least gives us administrators more room and help in the administration process.
Thanks
However it is quite obvious to me that none or at least none of the persons with power who made this game have been a server administrator. I conclude with this because of the none existences of administration utilities and the lack of logging.
With quake 3 arena and all the games based on this engine, I as a administrator could to a certain level follow a game from the console. This allowed me to a have at least a little control over my servers and the opportunity to not only give instructions, but receive information from players in the game. As it is right now I have to join a game to get any feedback from players, mainly because chatting isn't presented on the console any more, but also because it isn't logged. If this is because of some private protection of the players I can see why you did it, but the negative aspects from a administration point of view is much higher than the fear of given away someone's email address.
For a normal player who only plays for the share fun of it, the consequences of the fact presented above might not be clear. However the moment he/she wants to join a clan or even start one with some fellow players, they might want to produce a ranking or clan statistic, which might help them become better and allow comparison with other clans. This of course does not only apply to clans, but it might be more obvious to them since the ability to create good statistic is gone.
My point is that as long as we do not have a SDK to create at least a server mod which creates accurate logs and print out information on the console, this game is a pain in the ass for an administrator who likes some sort of control or feedback from his players. Especially if you run a public server without a big and faithful player base, since most players never bother to tell the administrator if something could be changed, they just change server.
I hope that all modifications (mods) which are in production or in planning, at least gives us administrators more room and help in the administration process.
Thanks
1) I honestly cannot answer right now. If I did, I'd say yes, but the 'ooooh, shiny!' effect is still there
2) In it's current state, I'd have to give it a 7/10
3) SP was a lot of fun, and while I understand that's where the money is, I've only played the SP to pass the time. I fully expected and wanted to have a decently functioning MP out-of-the-box. Not talking bugs, they happen, thats what patches are for. But some of the idea's in mp appear contradictory. We have the new tourney system, a good idea and arguebly (sp?) geared towards competitive play. So why nerf the weapons by making splash damage do more damage than a direct hit? My guess is thats to make it easier for n00b's and help level the playing field for all, but since improvement then makes you actually do worse in a game ... just seems to fly in the face of the competiveness, and is in my opinion a really stupid idea. I'm not personally into the whole competive side of things, I play purely for fun, but that just seems to me like soccer, but goals are scored by missing the goal.
The models look fantastic, but since playing online, I've found it easier to see my opponent when they have the invis pu since they blend into the background otherwise. I'd like to see the skins colouring altered, or at least force models and some proper team skins. Not saying we should have blue and red (although that would work), but nothing stopping Raven from adding in some bright orange and bright green skins. With force model and perhaps enemy model that would do a lot for the game.
The no strafe jumping on curved stairs is plain stupid.
While I expected low framerates (it was the same with both previous Quakes, was a year or more before hardware caught up) in both of those previous Quakes, you could actually scale back the graphics to compensate and get acceptable frame rates. No route exists for this in Quake 4, and I don't understand why. It could have been coded in easily enough, Quake 3 had vertex lighting, surely something could have been done for Q4?
Having the 60fps cap seems pointless, especially since removing said cap can be achieved without putting game physics out of sync. Everybody is different, and despite some folks saying otherwise, 60fps at 75Hz+ can still be a strain on the eyes in a game in which fast movement and reaction speed are pretty much a given. Coupled with the currently low frame rates and it does on occasion give me a headache after a short while.
The sound ... I think I'll reserve judgement on this. No-one would expect to play this on low end hardware, although with the advances in onboard sound, the need for a seperate sound card has been diminshed greatly. Apparently tho, if you want to have good positional sound in Quake 4, you will need a decent sound card that supports OpenAL. My HD onboard audio doesn't. Not going to knock Q4 for that one, since I would never expect to play with onboard video either, but I've not heard Q4 with an Audigy or something like that; for all I know, positioning by sound might be just as bad
I've no idea if having half of the variables locked down is simply a mistake or by design, but half the enjoyment for me in previous Quakes was being able to tweak the game. All those commands being preceded by '_' not functioning in via script hampers that for me personally, and I know a lot of others feel the same way.
I've no idea if this is true or not, but I hear that in D3, server downloads (or at least the redirects to get the missing file/s from a server specified link) were 'fixed'. While this seems at first like a bug (which I've tried to avoid listing), and you can have the server point clients to a URL to grab files, the D3 approach (serverDownloads "2") appears to be only half implemented. Also appears (tho I would like to be told I'm wrong about this) that clients must have the same files as the server, even if those files are not in use. Both of those will greatly hamper the community in regards to getting mods and maps accepted.
I love the idea of the teleports and jump/ramp pads reacting with projectiles. I don't think they've been best shown off as gameplay aid with the current maps (and yes, I too have to wonder who thought making Xearo Gravity would be a good idea ) and I'm really looking forward to this aspect of play being further enhanced by the community of mappers.
The whole crouch sliding thing makes gameplay more interesting too, and adds another perspective to play. Not sure if that was a bug or a hidden feature, but if it is a bug, leave it in
My own personal worry is that none of the negative points will be addressed, either at all or quickly enough. I'd like to see Raven make a statement about what, if anything they will be doing, with perhaps some sort of time frame (if possible). Because when the 'oooh, shiny' effect wears off, I do have to wonder how many will keep playing, and I DO want them to keep playing. Question is, does Raven?
2) In it's current state, I'd have to give it a 7/10
3) SP was a lot of fun, and while I understand that's where the money is, I've only played the SP to pass the time. I fully expected and wanted to have a decently functioning MP out-of-the-box. Not talking bugs, they happen, thats what patches are for. But some of the idea's in mp appear contradictory. We have the new tourney system, a good idea and arguebly (sp?) geared towards competitive play. So why nerf the weapons by making splash damage do more damage than a direct hit? My guess is thats to make it easier for n00b's and help level the playing field for all, but since improvement then makes you actually do worse in a game ... just seems to fly in the face of the competiveness, and is in my opinion a really stupid idea. I'm not personally into the whole competive side of things, I play purely for fun, but that just seems to me like soccer, but goals are scored by missing the goal.
The models look fantastic, but since playing online, I've found it easier to see my opponent when they have the invis pu since they blend into the background otherwise. I'd like to see the skins colouring altered, or at least force models and some proper team skins. Not saying we should have blue and red (although that would work), but nothing stopping Raven from adding in some bright orange and bright green skins. With force model and perhaps enemy model that would do a lot for the game.
The no strafe jumping on curved stairs is plain stupid.
While I expected low framerates (it was the same with both previous Quakes, was a year or more before hardware caught up) in both of those previous Quakes, you could actually scale back the graphics to compensate and get acceptable frame rates. No route exists for this in Quake 4, and I don't understand why. It could have been coded in easily enough, Quake 3 had vertex lighting, surely something could have been done for Q4?
Having the 60fps cap seems pointless, especially since removing said cap can be achieved without putting game physics out of sync. Everybody is different, and despite some folks saying otherwise, 60fps at 75Hz+ can still be a strain on the eyes in a game in which fast movement and reaction speed are pretty much a given. Coupled with the currently low frame rates and it does on occasion give me a headache after a short while.
The sound ... I think I'll reserve judgement on this. No-one would expect to play this on low end hardware, although with the advances in onboard sound, the need for a seperate sound card has been diminshed greatly. Apparently tho, if you want to have good positional sound in Quake 4, you will need a decent sound card that supports OpenAL. My HD onboard audio doesn't. Not going to knock Q4 for that one, since I would never expect to play with onboard video either, but I've not heard Q4 with an Audigy or something like that; for all I know, positioning by sound might be just as bad
I've no idea if having half of the variables locked down is simply a mistake or by design, but half the enjoyment for me in previous Quakes was being able to tweak the game. All those commands being preceded by '_' not functioning in via script hampers that for me personally, and I know a lot of others feel the same way.
I've no idea if this is true or not, but I hear that in D3, server downloads (or at least the redirects to get the missing file/s from a server specified link) were 'fixed'. While this seems at first like a bug (which I've tried to avoid listing), and you can have the server point clients to a URL to grab files, the D3 approach (serverDownloads "2") appears to be only half implemented. Also appears (tho I would like to be told I'm wrong about this) that clients must have the same files as the server, even if those files are not in use. Both of those will greatly hamper the community in regards to getting mods and maps accepted.
I love the idea of the teleports and jump/ramp pads reacting with projectiles. I don't think they've been best shown off as gameplay aid with the current maps (and yes, I too have to wonder who thought making Xearo Gravity would be a good idea
) and I'm really looking forward to this aspect of play being further enhanced by the community of mappers.The whole crouch sliding thing makes gameplay more interesting too, and adds another perspective to play. Not sure if that was a bug or a hidden feature, but if it is a bug, leave it in
My own personal worry is that none of the negative points will be addressed, either at all or quickly enough. I'd like to see Raven make a statement about what, if anything they will be doing, with perhaps some sort of time frame (if possible). Because when the 'oooh, shiny' effect wears off, I do have to wonder how many will keep playing, and I DO want them to keep playing. Question is, does Raven?