Strafe Jumping
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Zatoichi.uK
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:01 pm
Oeloe wrote:It's best to learn circle jumps (CJ's) first. Press forward and add strafe, make a quick 90 degree turn but jump when you are at approx. 3/4th of the turn and then slowly drift off to 90 degrees and a bit past it.Zatoichi.uK wrote:Do you hold strafe after you've left the ground or before? Still doesn't feel right...
That's the usual way to get initial speed for strafejumping. Example to do strafejumps: do a left CJ (hold forward and left and make the turn and jump); while in the air, change to RIGHT strafe, and just before landing and making the second jump, quickly flick your mouse +- 45 degrees (maybe a bit less) to the right. Between the 2nd and 3rd jump, change strafe to left and just before making the 3rd jump flick your mouse to the left again. And so on.
Make sure that after making a turn with the mouse, keep looking that way until you need to change. You need to do zig-zag strafes for maximum acceleration.
There are some guides for Q3 strafe jumping and other tricks. The website from clan 'The Jats' used to have a very good tutorial. I suggest you look around a bit, watch some Q3 demos. If you get decent frame rates in Q4, you can try this map.
Thanks for the tips and map which I have D'L'd and have spent the last 4 hours getting nowhere.
I have to confess, I never could strafe-jump and have been playing online since q1.
The Circle jump I can do ok and can make it to the 3rd ramp by making individual CJ's.
When I do try to strafe-jump though I cannot even make it to the 2nd ramp - ever. Are there any demos to go with that map?
One thing - I use 'mouse 2 - rightclick' for 'forward' instead of 'W' like normal people - would that be a reason? have tried changing but it's like learning to walk again - and that took years to get right
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spookmineer
- Posts: 506
- Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 8:00 am
Eraser is right when he says he moves the mouse left when strafing right, but it's not what most people would call "normal" strafing. Doing like he says is inverted strafing and looks weird for most people who aren't used to it.
A strafe tutorial: http://www.trickingq3.com/Tutorials/Str ... orial.html
You could try OPC1 (Quake3) but if you really want to train Q4 strafing you might want to try "rman_strafes_01" (hard map) http://python.unixbsd.info/~maver/q4/maps/trick/ or "apa01strafe" http://quake4.filefront.com/file/apa01strafe;49931 (easier).
For an example of half beat strafing on rman map: http://www.overdrivepc.com/forum/attach ... ntid=16110
To play the demo, open the console and type:
playnetdemo spook_rman_strafes_halfbeat
A strafe tutorial: http://www.trickingq3.com/Tutorials/Str ... orial.html
You could try OPC1 (Quake3) but if you really want to train Q4 strafing you might want to try "rman_strafes_01" (hard map) http://python.unixbsd.info/~maver/q4/maps/trick/ or "apa01strafe" http://quake4.filefront.com/file/apa01strafe;49931 (easier).
For an example of half beat strafing on rman map: http://www.overdrivepc.com/forum/attach ... ntid=16110
To play the demo, open the console and type:
playnetdemo spook_rman_strafes_halfbeat
WRONG. No, you can still do it but it seems like it would be very complicated. What do you use for moveright-left?ppp wrote:One thing - I use 'mouse 2 - rightclick' for 'forward' instead of 'W' like normal people - would that be a reason? have tried changing but it's like learning to walk again - and that took years to get right
Thanks Spooky I'll take a look at those.
This is a subject I revisit once every few months - one day (year) I'll 'get it'.
I wonder if this is why many people don't play Quake online as much as other games like CS (shudder..). My online experience has never been much fun without this skill.
Speaking of which, there are a lot of servers but most of them seem empty! Each populated server seems to have it's resident 'leet' player in DM - Tourney is not worth playing unless you like to get knocked out within a couple of minutes and then sit through seemingly hours of watching much better players.
There should be some grading system so 'ordinary' players who paid just as many dollars for the game get to have a go without being bullied by server-criusing 'leet' players. Some kind of world ranking system alloted to each player based on collected performance stats - I think Unreal Tournament had/has this.
This is a subject I revisit once every few months - one day (year) I'll 'get it'.
I wonder if this is why many people don't play Quake online as much as other games like CS (shudder..). My online experience has never been much fun without this skill.
Speaking of which, there are a lot of servers but most of them seem empty! Each populated server seems to have it's resident 'leet' player in DM - Tourney is not worth playing unless you like to get knocked out within a couple of minutes and then sit through seemingly hours of watching much better players.
There should be some grading system so 'ordinary' players who paid just as many dollars for the game get to have a go without being bullied by server-criusing 'leet' players. Some kind of world ranking system alloted to each player based on collected performance stats - I think Unreal Tournament had/has this.
I use the usualLenard wrote:WRONG. No, you can still do it but it seems like it would be very complicated. What do you use for moveright-left?ppp wrote:One thing - I use 'mouse 2 - rightclick' for 'forward' instead of 'W' like normal people - would that be a reason? have tried changing but it's like learning to walk again - and that took years to get right
'A' for strafe left and
'D' for strafe right
'S' for backwards movement
Although I have moved along to 'S', 'D' and 'F' to take advantage of and extra weapon for my pinky, the 'A' key.
I have just been practicing with 'W' as forward (very, very, very wierd :icon27: - ended up just always holding it down just to get anywhere lol. Anyway doesn't seem to make any difference - can manage the first platform (mostly) but never the 2nd, just as before - will keep trying - only been at it 30 minutes
Thanks again
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^misantropia^
- Posts: 4022
- Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:24 pm
This, the flicking just before you land, is the most important part of strafejumping. If you do it too soon or, worse, too late, you're never going to get up to high speeds. You'll eventually notice the "sweet spots", view angles that give you the greatest speed increase. I'm willing to give you a bit of training in Q3 if you want. I know how frustrating it can be - God knows how long it took me to get it right.Oeloe wrote:while in the air, change to RIGHT strafe, and just before landing and making the second jump, quickly flick your mouse +- 45 degrees (maybe a bit less) to the right.
No, try it with mouse 2. Just hold mouse 2 the whole time and do your circle jump but when you get to around the bottom of the jump start heading the other way and on the second jump hold the opposite strafe key. Here is a lame tut I wrote so you can see another angle on it.
Strafe jumping is a commonly overlooked technique. A lot of players know what it is and know how to do it, but many of them seem to use it at the wrong times. Strafe jumping actually accomplishes two things at one time. First of all, it gives you a distinct advantage over players - you move forward and backward, up and down, and left to right simultaneously. If you have really good aim, you can do all of this while never taking your crosshair off of the player. Secondly, when done correctly, you get a significant increase in your forward or backward travelling speed. For those of you who don't know, strafe jumping is performed by jumping while staffing left, landing, jumping while strafing right, landing, and then repeating. Two things you must watch out for are the fogs of death and the void. They are your worst enemies while you are attempting this technique, and are probably the biggest reason it is not very widely used. You will soon find out for yourself that losing control of your character is very easy to do, which can easily result in a messy landing in dangerous areas. In safer areas, however, you can usually do no more harm than bumping into a wall. If this happens, the time that it takes you to recover your control is probably less than the time that you saved and certainly makes up for whatever damage you can avoid taking." Strafe jumping is pretty complicated if you have never done it before so I will try to explain it as simply as possible. In the quake II engine, just as in the other quake engines, when you jump and strafe at the same time you go faster than walking. If you just jump while going straight you only maintain a solid 320 ups. This is possible because the engine adds (it's not an additive function really but I am not going to go into technical jargon here) the forward velocity to the sideways or strafed velocity to make the diagonal velocity. This is not very realistic but it is pretty entertaining when you are going four times the normal walking rate. To get going really fast you have to add mouse motion into all this. The most important step in any good strafe jump is the take-off. For the most efficent take-off you will want to start out looking about 45 degrees to the side of your projected path. You will then start to press forward. It doesn't really matter how long you go untill you start strafing but you have to strafe and turn at the same time. Strafe into the direction of your projected path and turn into it at the same time. When your mouse is dead center or at 0 degrees, jump. The speed of the turn and the timing of the jump are crucial but cannot really be taught. Strafe jumping is all about a connection to the engine and once you feel comfortable enough this will all be second nature. If you did this right then what you have just performed is called a circle jump. One circle jump can be usefull in it's self to bridge large gaps in narrow places. To continue the train, start holding the oposite strafe button and moving the mouse the other way just before you hit the ground. Mostly what matters is your motion while you are in contact with your ground. As long as you are moving forward and strafing and moving the mouse in the direction you are strafing then you should be ok. The real issue is controling this. It is almost always necessary to double up on jumps when tactically strafe jumping. If you want to go more to the left then just do two (or however many it takes) jumps to the left in part of your train instead of one. Again, this eventually will come naturally to you in time and you will not even think about it. To perform this, leaving off from the first jump again, continue holding the same strafe button all the way through; you can stop or slow the mouse in the air because if you move it too far it wont work too great, but make sure it is moving the same direction when you hit the ground. There are many different forms of strafe jumping and of course the illusive "airchange" but if you want more info on that you can email me at Twelve.Scoff.Lenard@gmail.com and I will most certainly help you out. These manuevers are absolutely necessary to any good FC but greatly helpfull to any player. Strafe jumping will improve anyone's game. These techniques can almost double your ability to control a map. Be the ninja. I have included a demo that shows strafe jumping in action in case anyone is still confused. It requires CTF to run which can be downloaded here. The demo:
It is a q2 demo, you all would not be interested.
Strafe jumping is a commonly overlooked technique. A lot of players know what it is and know how to do it, but many of them seem to use it at the wrong times. Strafe jumping actually accomplishes two things at one time. First of all, it gives you a distinct advantage over players - you move forward and backward, up and down, and left to right simultaneously. If you have really good aim, you can do all of this while never taking your crosshair off of the player. Secondly, when done correctly, you get a significant increase in your forward or backward travelling speed. For those of you who don't know, strafe jumping is performed by jumping while staffing left, landing, jumping while strafing right, landing, and then repeating. Two things you must watch out for are the fogs of death and the void. They are your worst enemies while you are attempting this technique, and are probably the biggest reason it is not very widely used. You will soon find out for yourself that losing control of your character is very easy to do, which can easily result in a messy landing in dangerous areas. In safer areas, however, you can usually do no more harm than bumping into a wall. If this happens, the time that it takes you to recover your control is probably less than the time that you saved and certainly makes up for whatever damage you can avoid taking." Strafe jumping is pretty complicated if you have never done it before so I will try to explain it as simply as possible. In the quake II engine, just as in the other quake engines, when you jump and strafe at the same time you go faster than walking. If you just jump while going straight you only maintain a solid 320 ups. This is possible because the engine adds (it's not an additive function really but I am not going to go into technical jargon here) the forward velocity to the sideways or strafed velocity to make the diagonal velocity. This is not very realistic but it is pretty entertaining when you are going four times the normal walking rate. To get going really fast you have to add mouse motion into all this. The most important step in any good strafe jump is the take-off. For the most efficent take-off you will want to start out looking about 45 degrees to the side of your projected path. You will then start to press forward. It doesn't really matter how long you go untill you start strafing but you have to strafe and turn at the same time. Strafe into the direction of your projected path and turn into it at the same time. When your mouse is dead center or at 0 degrees, jump. The speed of the turn and the timing of the jump are crucial but cannot really be taught. Strafe jumping is all about a connection to the engine and once you feel comfortable enough this will all be second nature. If you did this right then what you have just performed is called a circle jump. One circle jump can be usefull in it's self to bridge large gaps in narrow places. To continue the train, start holding the oposite strafe button and moving the mouse the other way just before you hit the ground. Mostly what matters is your motion while you are in contact with your ground. As long as you are moving forward and strafing and moving the mouse in the direction you are strafing then you should be ok. The real issue is controling this. It is almost always necessary to double up on jumps when tactically strafe jumping. If you want to go more to the left then just do two (or however many it takes) jumps to the left in part of your train instead of one. Again, this eventually will come naturally to you in time and you will not even think about it. To perform this, leaving off from the first jump again, continue holding the same strafe button all the way through; you can stop or slow the mouse in the air because if you move it too far it wont work too great, but make sure it is moving the same direction when you hit the ground. There are many different forms of strafe jumping and of course the illusive "airchange" but if you want more info on that you can email me at Twelve.Scoff.Lenard@gmail.com and I will most certainly help you out. These manuevers are absolutely necessary to any good FC but greatly helpfull to any player. Strafe jumping will improve anyone's game. These techniques can almost double your ability to control a map. Be the ninja. I have included a demo that shows strafe jumping in action in case anyone is still confused. It requires CTF to run which can be downloaded here. The demo:
It is a q2 demo, you all would not be interested.
[img]http://myspace-001.vo.llnwd.net/00555/10/05/555355001_l.gif[/img]
spookmineer wrote:Eraser is right when he says he moves the mouse left when strafing right, but it's not what most people would call "normal" strafing. Doing like he says is inverted strafing and looks weird for most people who aren't used to it.
A strafe tutorial: http://www.trickingq3.com/Tutorials/Str ... orial.html
You could try OPC1 (Quake3) but if you really want to train Q4 strafing you might want to try "rman_strafes_01" (hard map) http://python.unixbsd.info/~maver/q4/maps/trick/ or "apa01strafe" http://quake4.filefront.com/file/apa01strafe;49931 (easier).
For an example of half beat strafing on rman map: http://www.overdrivepc.com/forum/attach ... ntid=16110
To play the demo, open the console and type:
playnetdemo spook_rman_strafes_halfbeat
OK had a chance to go through the above, I'd seen the first one. That rman 01 map seems a lot harder than the APA01 map - I can only get to the 2nd ramp and about halfway to the 3rd, let alone the other 93 off in the distance!!! the demo with it doesn't seem to work but will keep trying.
Thanks for the offer ^misantropia^, but I have had many kind people try and assist me on various tricking maps over the years but to no avail.
I'm gonna give up again for now and try again next year. I've saved all the tuts/vids - thanks for trying to help.
maybe I'll learn before Quake 5 comes out :icon26:
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spookmineer
- Posts: 506
- Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 8:00 am
The .netdemo goes in /q4base/demos/ folder (if you don't have that folder yet, create it and place the demo in that folder). Then you should be able viewing the demo by typing the following in the console:
playnetdemo spook_rman_strafes_halfbeat
...Learning how to strafe is not done overnight... I remember how many times I tried OPC1 map for Q3 before I even got over the middle of the map. The apa map is a bit easier, maybe a bit like OPC1 (which is not that difficult as compared to other strafe maps), keep trying until you get a feel for it
playnetdemo spook_rman_strafes_halfbeat
...Learning how to strafe is not done overnight... I remember how many times I tried OPC1 map for Q3 before I even got over the middle of the map. The apa map is a bit easier, maybe a bit like OPC1 (which is not that difficult as compared to other strafe maps), keep trying until you get a feel for it
Yep all in correct folders, console just telling me it can't load it. I guess I've seen a tonne of these already so wouldn't help much anyway - have also 'spec'd' a lot of online players over the years - god knows how many thousands of times I've tried the 'bridge-to-rail' in DM6 and never done it!! - maybe if I ask O'dium nicely he'll shorten the gap in the Q4 version for me :icon25:spookmineer wrote:The .netdemo goes in /q4base/demos/ folder (if you don't have that folder yet, create it and place the demo in that folder). Then you should be able viewing the demo by typing the following in the console:
playnetdemo spook_rman_strafes_halfbeat
...Learning how to strafe is not done overnight... I remember how many times I tried OPC1 map for Q3 before I even got over the middle of the map. The apa map is a bit easier, maybe a bit like OPC1 (which is not that difficult as compared to other strafe maps), keep trying until you get a feel for it
Maybe the people trying to help you just weren't good at explaining how to do it.ppp wrote:Thanks for the offer ^misantropia^, but I have had many kind people try and assist me on various tricking maps over the years but to no avail.
I've managed to teach a few people by telling them exactly what they did wrong and what they should do instead. The moves aren't complicated at all if someone can explain and show you every little step that's involved, instead of just doing a strafe run.Using mouse2 for +forward seems a bit unpractical to me. I like to do all movement with my left hand (keyboard) and do aim and shooting with my right hand (mouse) only. I like to be able to walk in circles by using my left hand only.
My brother used A and S for left/right, mouse2 for +forward and hardly ever used his backpedal bind, whichever key that was. :icon27: Not being able to use all binds is just a handicap. There are people that don't have a crouch bind because it wasn't very important in Q3, but it's more important in Q4 so i'm glad i used it often in Q3.
@Lenard: are we supposed to be able to read that monstrous piece of text? Make sections plz.
hehe i was used to use that bind too, some lots of years ago. thats coz a game of that ages was setup for mouse2 or 3 to move forward. dont remember whats the game anymore TTLenard wrote:WRONG. No, you can still do it but it seems like it would be very complicated. What do you use for moveright-left?ppp wrote:One thing - I use 'mouse 2 - rightclick' for 'forward' instead of 'W' like normal people - would that be a reason? have tried changing but it's like learning to walk again - and that took years to get right
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Runningman
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:59 am
Maybe it is. I'm having a bit of trouble changing strafe direction and view angle independently (not at the same time), but i'm not really interested in learning hardcore strafing (i already spent lots of hours to achieve my current level :icon32:). I can do the 1st of the red pads in cos1, which is enough for me.Runningman wrote:one major improvement with strafing is jumping with "mouse right click"
hope this helps
Last edited by Oeloe on Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'll pm you to say when i have time. It would be easiest to do it in Q3 btw.miG wrote:hey oeloe, i'm new to q4 so if you have about 10 mins could you show me and explain how to do strafe jumping properly, and perhaps even tell me what i'm doing wrong? I'm in NA if you want to set up a time...
btw great guides
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Runningman
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:59 am
if you cant strafe all you need is this....
http://planetquake3.net/download.php?op=fileid&lid=2170
my new strafes should be out soon (much harder and smaller pads)
http://planetquake3.net/download.php?op=fileid&lid=2170
my new strafes should be out soon (much harder and smaller pads)
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Zatoichi.uK
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:01 pm
I can't strafe very well tbh,but I remember my friend starting to play q3 back in the day and we were discussing how to strafe properly and we both came to the obvious conclusion that its just a rythem with a slow turn of the dial raising the temp.This doesnt help anybody but what we both thought would was, remember when fighting games introduced the combo system (tekken 2 really stand out for me regarding the system i speak of) where you would learn the combos and they were all rythem and timing based on the animations on the screen well they later added a combo practice list which would have the computer show you the button combination in a bar at the bottom of the screen and perform it for you which showed you the button input + the time at which it was pressed (it didnt show the time but u seen when they it should be pressed) something like that would be of great help to anybody who can't strafe flawless. I never understood why my buddy learned how to strafe but only got 600-650 on his second jump while some ppl hit 625-700 and me only getting 550-600.
Anyways I do think it would be great if there was a mod that showed you your key presses + time with a comparitive ups and maybe a way to show you what you should be doing ideally although it does seem like it may be complex.Also is there a drawspeed command in q4? because thats the only way i can really gauge if I'm getting better or not and where I mess up.Think of dance evolution or whatever its called if you don't understand the combo system.
Anyways I do think it would be great if there was a mod that showed you your key presses + time with a comparitive ups and maybe a way to show you what you should be doing ideally although it does seem like it may be complex.Also is there a drawspeed command in q4? because thats the only way i can really gauge if I'm getting better or not and where I mess up.Think of dance evolution or whatever its called if you don't understand the combo system.
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spookmineer
- Posts: 506
- Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 8:00 am
The Defrag mod for Quake 3 has this option. If the config is set up correctly, it shows you the keypresses (also in demos - meaning you can see the keypresses of others) and it shows you the optimum mouse angle while strafing.
A bit of this is explained in the movie: Genesis: The Beginning Of.. by Quan-Time: http://www.own-age.com/vids/video.aspx?id=3683
I'm not sure defrag will be made for Q4... At the moment it is only available for Quake 3. The strafe itself feels the same in both games though.
You will notice that the angle (mouse direction) has to increase the faster you go (this is when you are using the normal strafe method), meaning the more speed you have, the more left and right your crosshair needs to be pointed at to get the desired acceleration (for inverted, the mouse angle needs to be decreased, and for half beat strafing it's even harder to explain).
In Quake 4 the only thing you can do at the moment is study some demos at a lower timescale, slowing the demo down so you can see more clearly what happens (mouse angles).
A bit of this is explained in the movie: Genesis: The Beginning Of.. by Quan-Time: http://www.own-age.com/vids/video.aspx?id=3683
I'm not sure defrag will be made for Q4... At the moment it is only available for Quake 3. The strafe itself feels the same in both games though.
You will notice that the angle (mouse direction) has to increase the faster you go (this is when you are using the normal strafe method), meaning the more speed you have, the more left and right your crosshair needs to be pointed at to get the desired acceleration (for inverted, the mouse angle needs to be decreased, and for half beat strafing it's even harder to explain).
In Quake 4 the only thing you can do at the moment is study some demos at a lower timescale, slowing the demo down so you can see more clearly what happens (mouse angles).