Need some info and recomendations on hardware.

[Magnus]

Hey all.

OK, I need some help and explination here.

I recently bought Quake 4, Doom 3 as well as it's RoE expantion pack and F.E.A.R.

Well my wife wanted to install them on her system as well so she can play them.

Her system is only 6 months old and beats the system requirements and has all of the needed software updates like drivers and DirectX and she has very little running in the background so she should have plenty of system resources to spare for the games, but even at as low as 800x600 rez in Doom 3 with high quality set she only gets about 25FPS and in Quake 4 with the same settings she gets about 18FPS and in F.E.A.R. with 800X600 rez and the other settings set to what I would call a medium high setting it is so choppy that she can't be getting any more than like 8FPS.

The minimum system requirements that are most important as far as hardware goes for these games are
1. 1500 Intell processor
2. 512MB of 133MHz PC2100 SDRAM
3. A 64MB video card

The recomended system requirements that are most important as far as hardware goes for these games are
1. 2000 Intell processor
2. 512MB of 133MHz PC2100 SDRAM
3. A 128MB video card

In these catigories my wife's system has
1. 3000+ AMD processor
2. 512MB of 400MHz PC3200 DDRRAM
3. A 256MB video card

So why is it that she is getting such crappy performance? She surpasses the system requirements by so much she should be able to play the games with 1024x768 rez and almost all the setting on high quality!

I know there is a difference in required resources between games like Doom 3, Quake 4 and F.E.A.R. and games like Q3A, but just for reference sake she consistantly gets 300FPS to 400FPS when playing Q3A. So I would say she should be able to get around 35FPS in Doom 3, Quake 4 and F.E.A.R.

If it is a need for new or more hardware what would be the best thing to do?
I figure her 3000+ AMD Processor is well good enough.
Would another 512MB of 400MHz PC3200 DDRRAM do it? Or are we just going to have to get her a 512MB video card?
We really can't afford a new video card right now, but still yet even if it is the video card what would help get these games running up to par?

If it helps here are her system specs.

Microsoft Windows XP Home SP2
MidATX Case 400watt. Power Supply
K7MNF-64 PCB 1.x 400MHz FSB USB2.0 8XAGP
Nforce2Chipset 400MHz FSB
AMD 3000+ 512L2cache 333MHz
Samsung 512MB DDR PC3200 400MHz RAM
Maxtor 120Gig 7200rpm HDD
NVidia FX5700LE 256MB DDR 950MHz (425+425)MHz
NForce2 Audio Chipset (Useing Sony HiFi Sterio Headphones With Mic)
DVDR-RW Doublelayer 8.5Gig
DVD-ROM
8 in1 Digital Media Manager
17"CRT Anti Glair TrueFlatScreen Monitor
2 Button Optical Wheel Mouse
Standard 104 key Intrnet Keyboard
Cable Internet 6MBps-down/768kbps-up
Linksys Network Everywhere Cable/DSL 4 port router NR041

Thanks once again everyone.

[shadd_]

NVidia FX5700LE 256MB DDR 950MHz (425+425)MHz

thats the problem. the amount of video ram does not make a good card. the 5700 is kinda slow.

of course i just like to throw money at the problem so i recommend a 6800gs. $199us at newegg.

or if you are an ebay user see if you can pick up a used 6800gt.

edit: yeah 512megs is really low for todays games. at "least" a gig is needed for smoothness. i it was me i would look at getting a 1gig stick for a total 1.5gis.

[Magnus]

Thanks for you input shadd_.
I knew that there are several classes of video cards with the same amount of RAM but with different levels of performance.
I just didn't realize that there would be that gigantic of a difference between two cards with the same amount of RAM.

Also I figured that since the minimum was a 64MB card and the recomended was 128MB card that surely a 256MB card no matter what it was would be able to handle these games with all of the settings maxed out.

The makers really should be more realistic about what kind of hardware they claim as the minimum and recomend.
Then of course not too many people have a system that are actually equiped to play these games and get any reasonable level of performance out of them.
So if your system won't play a game then why would you buy it. That has to be why they claim lower than the actual needed as the minimum and recomend.

I'll go ahead and throw the extra 512MB or 1GB of 400MHz PC3200 DDRRAM into her system and play with the settings and see what kind of playability I can get for her for now untill we can afford her a new video card perhaps for Christmas.

Thanks!

[shadd_]

another gig would be perfect. that will help alot in overall performance. far as the card goes you'll just have to keep lowering resolution and details until it becomes playable.

[AmIdYfReAk]

DO NOT! i repeat DO NOT judge a Videocards performance by its amount of Vram, this isent the thing to do..

next time you are looking for a videocard, Take some time, hit up some review sites and see whats out there and how it does with currect games..

take a look at tomshardware's VGA chart, he has atleast 8 of them out not testing all of the main stream videocards with all of the current games.

Btw, the only thing ram will do is stop the Hdd from accessing wile playing, and kill load times. not Fps

[Cooldown]

The amount of memory is no indicator of the card's true performance or requirements. If you're willing to spend the money I'd get a NVIDIA 6800GT or a 6600.

[Magnus]

Yea, I figured out real quick that adding RAM will not help FPS at all.

I added that 1GB PC3200 400MHz DDR RAM as well as another 512MB PC3200 400MHz DDR RAM.
So now she has 2GB PC3200 400MHz DDR RAM. The thing is that her origonal 512MB was Samsung Brand and her new 1.5GB is Kingston. There isn't going to be any problems with the mixed brands is there?
From what I know and understand there shoulden't be, but I have heard and read stories of ths causing issues before.

I have to say though...WOW! Her games, levels in the games, and programs load and open and close out WAY faster.

And as far as the video card I am just going to wait untill Christmass and get her the same card I have.
My only queston on that is will the card I have work with her MOBO?
I have the NVIDIA GeForce FX6800 Ultra PCI Express 512MB DDR3.
Will the PCI Express work on her 8X AGP MOBO?

Anyway, thanks for all of the responces so far.

[Oeloe]

Different brands of RAM usually will not cause any problems.

About the vidcard upgrade: the mobo your wife has is a K7MNF-64 PCB 1.x 400MHz FSB USB2.0 8XAGP. Meaning it has an AGP port. It's a mobo from the Athlon XP platform (previous generation of AMD CPU's) that doesn't exist with PCIe. So you should look for an AGP version of the GeForce FX6800 GT or Ultra. It will still be for sale for a while but it probably will become harder to find.

[Magnus]

Different brands of RAM usually will not cause any problems.

About the vidcard upgrade: the mobo your wife has is a K7MNF-64 PCB 1.x 400MHz FSB USB2.0 8XAGP. Meaning it has an AGP port. It's a mobo from the Athlon XP platform (previous generation of AMD CPU's) that doesn't exist with PCIe. So you should look for an AGP version of the GeForce FX6800 GT or Ultra. It will still be for sale for a while but it probably will become harder to find.

Cool. Thanks Oeloe!

I'll look for the AGP version of the FX6800 or as close as I can get.

That is something I also noticed. It seems that AMD is no longer produceing the Athalon processors anymore.

It seems as though a processor called the Sempron has replaced it.

I have heard from a few sources that it is one of AMD's lower performance models and from other sources that it is actually a newer series of processors that actuall out perform the Athalon processors by a fair bit.
I wasn't sure what to belive so I checked with AMD and they claim the Sempron is their next generation of better performing processors spawned from the Athalon. But I doubt that they are ever going to say "No sorry it is actually not as good as the Athalon that we no longer produce!".

So I am still not sure about this Sempron. I would still like to get my hands on a compairison sheet where the Sempron 3000+ the Athalon XP 3000+ and the Intell P4 2.0GHz are compaired side by side.
I have to say it "SEEMS" to perform very well, but for some reason when I test it is reported to be running at 1.99GHz instead of 2.0GHz.

Something for me to go look up and at least try to do some research on now.

Thanks.

[Scarface]

your 3000+ should be running at 2.20 ghz. Check your mobo and make sure it's running at 200mhz fsb and not 166. Also, I'd reccomend 2x1gb pc3200, for dual channel

[Magnus]

your 3000+ should be running at 2.20 ghz. Check your mobo and make sure it's running at 200mhz fsb and not 166. Also, I'd reccomend 2x1gb pc3200, for dual channel

OK, I went into BIOS and my FSB is set to 166. So I need to change that to 200?

Also what should my AGP apature size be? Right now it is set to 32, but there is 16, 32, 64 and 128 possible.

Thanks again.

[Doombrain]

i think it should be half the video ram of your card, could be wrong.

[Magnus]

OK, first the RAM stuff.
I have the option of setting it to
By SPD
66%
133%
166%
200%
AUTO

Right now it is set to By SPD. Do I need to change that to 200%?

Now the video stuff.
If it supposed to be half the size of my video RAM then I should set it from 32 to 128?
In that case what about cards with 512MB of RAM? That would mean you would need to be able to set it to 256, but the settings only go up to 128.
Or when it says apature size is it possible that it is talking about the size of the moduals on the stick of RAM?
You know like a 512MB stick would have 16 seperate "32"MB moduals on it.
So the apature size would be 32. Right?

Also what the heck is the "Frame buffer size"? I have several settings I could apply to it as well.

This sucks. I hate not knowing stuff....lol.

Thanks for the help so far though. :icon17:

[Oeloe]

Learn how to use Google. If you read up on all the technical stuff you'll learn more and faster than by just asking about every single thing you don't know.

Your CPU is a 333 MHz type Athlon, meaning it should runs at an FSB frequency of 166 MHz (= 333 MHz DDR) so you shouldn't change the FSB to 200 MHz. To be precise, your CPU should run at 12.5x166.66 = 2083.33 MHz. Because your system is only 6 months old, you'll have an Athlon that has a locked multiplier, meaning you can't change the FSB to 200 MHz and run the CPU at 11x200=2200 MHz.

AGP aperture can be 64 or 128. Not higher but not lower usual.

What you can do in the BIOS is disable all devices you never use, like game ports, infrared ports, LPT and Serial ports etc. It will free some resources.

[Doombrain]

That's a bit harsh mate. The whole point of this fourm is to be able to ask questions without having to spend hours at google.

[Oeloe]

That's a bit harsh mate. The whole point of this fourm is to be able to ask questions without having to spend hours at google.

That's not harsh at all, it's good advice. Encouraging a passive attitude is bad. The people with the knowledge often have to do a quick search to be able to help someone (because they don't know everything by heart), so pointing someone in the right direction (instead of giving the results) will make him better able to help himself the next time because he knows how/where to search.

[Doombrain]

You logic is floored. This is a technical help forum and questions are asked.
He never stipulated a timed response to his questions, only suggestions and a little clarity. I don’t see anything positive in directing posters to Google.

[Scourge]

Hell, let's just put one thread with a link to google and lock the forum. I find it better to talk to people I'm familiar with and can interact with than to just read pages of info. Sometimes that info is wrong and it helps to have people with personal experiences in that area to talk to. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but this forum lives on people coming in here and asking questions. Besides Magnus has been around here for some time and knows the drill.

[Magnus]

Learn how to use Google. If you read up on all the technical stuff you'll learn more and faster than by just asking about every single thing you don't know.

Actually when you say it like that it is harsh.

I understand that you like many others are leary of the noobs that come here and expect the members to do all their research for them over and over again.
Trust me that as most members here know I am not one of those people.

I have spent thousands of hours looking stuff up on google as well as dozens of other resources.
And usually I am the one giveing out the help.

I did the usual search of the forums to see if this topic has been explained enough to answer my questions before I posted.

I feel that it is wise to learn from those who have already dealt with the same problem.

Sometimes that info is wrong and it helps to have people with personal experiences in that area to talk to..

Exactly.

Honestly it is just kinda nice to be able to just get help and or explinations from friends that know the answers.

I thank you for you help Oeloe it was kind of you to help as you did, but if I am waisting your time then simply don't respond to my questions.
I'm just here to help and be helped. I don't want to upset anyone.

You have all been very helpfull. I think I have enough info and terminology to find the rest of anything I need to know on my own now.

A great thanks once again.

[Doombrain]

SMACKDOWN

NOW LETS ALL HUG

[Magnus]

SMACKDOWN

NOW LETS ALL HUG

LOL...I agree.

[Scourge]

SMACKDOWN

NOW LETS ALL HUG

*huggies*

[obsidian]

SMACKDOWN

NOW LETS ALL HUG

*huggies*

I was going to write something here rather important... but now I forgot what it was.

[Magnus]

SMACKDOWN

NOW LETS ALL HUG

*huggies*

I was going to write something here rather important... but now I forgot what it was.

That is OK obsidian. Huggies can cause that.

[Tormentius]

That's not harsh at all, it's good advice. Encouraging a passive attitude is bad. The people with the knowledge often have to do a quick search to be able to help someone (because they don't know everything by heart), so pointing someone in the right direction (instead of giving the results) will make him better able to help himself the next time because he knows how/where to search.

Post a link if you want to "point someone in the right direction" or just don't answer at all but acting like a bellend towards someone who politely asked for help isn't appreciated.

Magnus: Here is a link explaining AGP aperture and many other settings as well. I'd recommend setting yours to 128MB.