Why has no one mentioned this shooting?

Post by **Nightshade** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:36 am

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArt ... -PLANE.xml

POW! Take that, Mr. I've Got A Bomb In My Bag!

Post by **GONNAFISTYA** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:38 am

Actually it was all over CNN and other news sites.

Or were you talking about this forum not talking about what you're talking about?

Post by **Canidae** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:45 am

Fucked up people shouldn't fly.
His wife should have told the crew his issues and if he was not on his meds BEFORE it became a problem not after he said bomb.

Post by **Jackal** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:47 am

It was funny watching this on CNN and then switch to the canadian news channel.
The canadians were saying things like "Wasn't the man searched? and if so, isn't shooting him for screaming a threat a bit extreme?"
then CNN:
"That marshall is a hero of a man, he performed his job perfectly."

lol

Post by **+JuggerNaut+** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:00 am

yeah, what's the problem? looks good. next.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:11 am

The air marshalls did their job. One nutjob less.

Post by **tnf** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:43 am

Yea, let's just search his bag...running from the marshalls, refusing to surrender his bag, saying there is a bomb in it.

I don't envy the split second decisions that the marshalls would have to make. Even if the gal was yelling that he was a mental case - you wouldn't know for sure if she was in on it...I mean if someone was planning it out, that might be a ploy to give someone the extra time they would need to detonate for maximum damage.

This is one of those damned if you do and damned if you don't things.

Post by **Foo** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:56 am

Tricky one.

A more considered evaluation might beg the question that, if he really did have a bomb, why would he start shouting about it as he boarded the plane. That, on consideration, doesn't make sense.

But in the heat of the moment, who knows. It would be harsh to damn their decision on the strength of the above evaluation.

Post by **tnf** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:13 am

yea, but to try and base your actions and the rationality of someone who might blow themself and others up is tough. The bottom line is that, while the situation can be evaluated to see if protocol was followed, to try and second guess the action of the air marshall is not really fair. If he was bipolar, perhaps the bomb threat was an attempt at suicide by air marshall made during a depressed state...

Post by **Jackal** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:13 am

Also it should be considered that the passengers had all already been screened. The chances the guy actually had a bomb were rather nil.

Post by **werldhed** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:22 am

Keep in mind that someone who is unstable is more likely to actually DO something stupid, regardless of whether he actually had a bomb that time. That is to say, although a competent person who wanted to detonate a bomb wouldn't announce it (unless he was taking hostages), someone who's crazy enough to say they have a bomb might be crazy enough to actually carry one on next time.

Post by **HM-PuFFNSTuFF** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:22 am

mentions the shooting

Post by **tnf** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:05 am

Unless he managed to have slipped by security and get on the plane, which I am guessing is still possible in this day and age.

Post by **tnf** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:07 am

Jackal wrote:Also it should be considered that the passengers had all already been screened. The chances the guy actually had a bomb were rather nil.

Also, one could say that, prior to the planes being hijacked, the odds of some arab guys with little boxcutters causing a couple wars was rather nil....

just saying that hindsight is always 20/20...but when you are in the heat of the moment situation that may be life or death for many people, sometimes you're forced to act in a manner that minimizes risk for the maximum # of people. I doubt the protocol that the air marhsalls follow when someone on the plane says they have a bomb is to think to themselves "he's already been screened...so there really isn't much to worry about."

Post by **R00k** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:22 am

I heard he reached into the bag when the Marshal was trying to grab him. If that's the case, protocol would seem to be "shoot" to me.

Sounds like an unfortunate incident, but in the circumstances I'd say it was handled the way it should have been.

Post by **hax103** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:22 am

Jackal wrote:Also it should be considered that the passengers had all already been screened. The chances the guy actually had a bomb were rather nil.

LOL. What planet have you been on? Most explosives would not be caught by metal detectors, which are mostly useful for guns and knives.

Post by **stocktroll** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:42 am

ya and what happens if he did have a bomb and blew up the plane?
then everyone would be like "OMG air security is still useless"
pick your bed and stay on it girls

Post by **Ryoki** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:48 am

hax103 wrote:
Jackal wrote:Also it should be considered that the passengers had all already been screened. The chances the guy actually had a bomb were rather nil.
LOL. What planet have you been on? Most explosives would not be caught by metal detectors, which are mostly useful for guns and knives.

Which is why they have X ray devices and dogs at airports, c'mon now, Jackal is right.

Post by **+JuggerNaut+** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:46 am

Ryoki wrote:
hax103 wrote:
Jackal wrote:Also it should be considered that the passengers had all already been screened. The chances the guy actually had a bomb were rather nil.
LOL. What planet have you been on? Most explosives would not be caught by metal detectors, which are mostly useful for guns and knives.
Which is why they have X ray devices and dogs at airports, c'mon now, Jackal is right.

right, but chance it that he might blow up a whole plane full of innocent people or shoot a guy claiming he's got a bomb? what would you have done?

Post by **Ryoki** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:59 am

I think having cops with guns aboard airplanes is just asking for incidents like this.

Imo a truly crazy person would never succeed in bringing a bomb aboard an airplane in the first place, and a terrorist wouldn't get caught like this. The system of air marhalls is fundamentally flawed, the only people that will ever be forcefully stopped are relatively innocent people.

EDIT: i think better security before you get to the plane would be better at weeding out people like this without killing them. Shit, for all i care they start doing medical background checks and ask if you took your pills that morning, that would work.

Post by **[xeno]Julios** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:22 am

i've a few questions:

how far away was marshall from target?

did marshall aim to kill?

how many bullets were fired?

Post by **Ryoki** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:30 am

When the word bomb is mentioned the policy is shoot to kill. He was pretty close, as in wrestling distance close. Don't know about the number of bullets, but i reckon he emptied his gun into the poor fools brain with the idea 'lets not take risks'.

Post by **4days** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:41 am

aye.

guessing (only read the story on the beeb) that it's the same as policy over here - if someone's potentially got a bomb - the safest way to stop them from detonating it or accidentally detonating it yourself is to shoot them in the head.

the multiple shots thing is probably because there was more than one shooter or that they were trained to fire a couple of bursts (which is what happened over here).

sad story - but armed cops probably shouldn't be on planes, and crazy people that shout about bombs definitely shouldn't be on planes.

what would you do as a passenger if something like that happened? i'm a total coward, but if someone on a plane convinced me they had a bomb or were a hijacker, i'd rather take a stanley knife in the belly than risk a plane full of people getting blown up.

Post by **Nightshade** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:23 pm

Ryoki wrote:
hax103 wrote:
Jackal wrote:Also it should be considered that the passengers had all already been screened. The chances the guy actually had a bomb were rather nil.
LOL. What planet have you been on? Most explosives would not be caught by metal detectors, which are mostly useful for guns and knives.
Which is why they have X ray devices and dogs at airports, c'mon now, Jackal is right.

No, he's not. Aiport security DOES still suck. And the flight was from Colombia, where C4 grows on trees.

Post by **Ryoki** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:39 pm

Lol, yeah okay, i missed the bit where it said the plane was from Colombias most criminal city.