Back from the grave!

[*Cardigan*]

My god, it's been a long time! I can't believe how many of the names here I still recognize!

So how the hell are you all? And is Quake 4 any good then? I've not bought it for fear of being horribly disillusioned after the glorious wonderment of my time with Quake 3.

[Bill Brooks]

Hi welcome back.
Yea it is good.

[Todtsteltzer]

:icon31: Welcome back, Cardigan!

[Oeloe]

WB Masta! :icon26:

[obsidian]

Ooooo, huggles!

We're fine despite having survived through a forum crash that left us without a home for a number of months. Then the forum was resurrected as a PHP instead of UBB forum, so you may have noticed some differences. raw and Turb have done a great job of emulating the old forum theme.

Other than that, everything's normal except lately a lot of old-timers have popped up after having disappeared for ages (yourself included).

Buy Q4, it's worth it. If for nothing else, just the singleplayer element is worth the money. Multiplayer feels very much like Q3 so it is fun to play, though there are a few server related issues that Raven has hinted at fixing with the next major patch.

So, what's new with you and what have you've been up to?

[voodoochopstiks]

BEHOLD, THE MAKER OF ECSTATICA! GET ON YOUR KNEES EVERYONE!

(what happened to 'Blunt Trauma' ?)

[Hr.O]

ohhh nooos it's him again

[*Cardigan*]

(what happened to 'Blunt Trauma' ?)

it ended up as the disco multiplayer level in Timesplitters: Future Perfect, available now from all good software stores!

If you want to check it out, theres a video here:

http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=1334

(choose the multiplayer disco video)

tbh I think it's actually a really good game, I'm very proud to have worked on it. It is as far as I know the only FPS where you can race stuffed cats on wheels. And electrocute robot monkeys to make them dance.

Unfortunately, although it got some really good reviews, the sales were less than stellar because apparently all the kids want to do these days is pretend to be a shit american gangsta. Or play ANOTHER world war fucking two shooter. (sigh)

anyway, don't get me started on that....

[voodoochopstiks]

Hehe, I can't honestly say I like to play FPS games on consoles. I feel like a cripple while doing so. No plans to finish Blunt Trauma for cpma then? I'd like some new killing fields.

[pjw]

Woo, back from the dead! Welcome back man.

is Quake 4 any good then?

I like it, but I'm kinda biased.
I'm sure you could make a great map for it.
/me looks pointedly at watch...

[*Cardigan*]

I must say I'm not especially keen on the Doom3 Engine lighting - works OK for dark space stations I guess but not much scope for anything else. A lot of the Q4 remakes of Q3 maps seem to look worse than the originals and I think that's 99% down to the lighting.

[Lukin]

It's hard to compare both engines' lighting - it is completly different. It's possible to make a map for "Q4" that looks way better than in "Q3" though it will hit the fps hard. Actually I think it is even possible to make "moving" "Ecstatica" (not sure about scripts in "Q4" mp, but it was certainly possible in "Doom 3").

But, to be honest, I think most of those fancy features of new engine (dynamic shadows, moving lights, etc.) are almost useless in multiplayer. That's why new "Q4" maps look worse then most of levels made for "Q3".

Personally, I'd love to see a way to merge lightmaps and dynamic shadows. I heard tectonic and pha3z tried to make something like that for "D3", don't know how it ended though.

But when we forget about technical aspects "Quake 4" is a good, fresh game, plays fine and it's nice to see how it unite communities of "Quake 3", "Quake 2", "Painkiller" and even "UT". Hopefully the patch will come soon, becuase now it's almost impossible to play online.

[Anwulf]

Blimey, we weem to be going through a look-who's-just-crawled-out-of-the-woodwork phase. Johnny Law, who I haven't seen around here in so long, suddenly reappears followed by unitool (although he's known for his occasional visits). TruthfulLiar also manifests himself.

Anyway, welcome back to the fold, Cardigan.

[TR!N!X]

wow cardigan u worked on TS:FP. that game is unbleavably good, well better than the other 2 game. what else did you make on that game? or only that disco level (man i hate that map)?

nice to see some old faces in the house

[pjw]

I must say I'm not especially keen on the Doom3 Engine lighting - works OK for dark space stations I guess but not much scope for anything else.

You sir, respectfully, are wrong. There are plenty of well-lit areas in Quake 4. It's possible to get nicely lit levels in Q4, it just takes a bit of effort and juggling to get performance/light level/aesthetics to some degree of balance (moreso than in Q3, granted).

I should have a beta of a DM map in a day or two to back it up.

(Wow, this is turning into a "gang's all here" thread.)

[wviperw]

"I should have a beta of a DM map in a day or two to back it up. "

Oooh, that either means the MP patch is coming out and your map is going to be bundled along with it or you'll actually be releasing a non-Raven DM map.

Ahh, the wonders of speculation.

[Fjoggs]

wviperw: stop being Socrates, and go map!

[*Cardigan*]

wow cardigan u worked on TS:FP. that game is unbleavably good, well better than the other 2 game. what else did you make on that game? or only that disco level (man i hate that map)?

er.. thanks.. I think.

I also did the first level and the art-decoish retro-futuristic underground base later (with the palace in the cave at the end)

pjw - I await the proof with bated breath! I still reckon an engine with static lightmaps (rendered with radiosity) and then fancy specular and normal map shenanigans applied on top (albeit in a usually hacky way) is more versatile though. The only benefit I can see in going for a totally dynamic lighting engine is that the props and characters sit slightly better in the environment, but that is becoming less true as time goes on.

Most background lighting does not change at an appreciable rate, so why waste all that processing power rendering it every frame when you could do it offline and get better quality results? (eg no razor sharp / black shadows, proper radiosity etc). Plus, you'll probably be able to render more polys into the bargain because the rendering is simpler. Obviously if you're doing a day/night cycle that is intrinsic to the game or something then fair enough, but for most things I just can't see the point.

Somewhat off topic, but while we're talking about engines... what was the max polycount you were working to for the Quake 4 backgrounds? I heard 100,000?

[79DieselRabbit]

...Or play ANOTHER world war fucking two shooter. (sigh)

anyway, don't get me started on that....

:icon21:

[*Cardigan*]

hehe, sorry man

it is a somewhat overworked genre though.

[spookmineer]

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/39894

"Activision also let us know that there are broader Quake 4 updates planned for next year, including several multiplayer map packs."

:icon9:

[pjw]

I still reckon an engine with static lightmaps (rendered with radiosity) and then fancy specular and normal map shenanigans applied on top (albeit in a usually hacky way) is more versatile though... what was the max polycount you were working to for the Quake 4 backgrounds? I heard 100,000?

Notice me not arguing with the first point. Versatility would be good. But despite how good it would be, it doesn't mean D3/Q4 engine = dark and cramped.

Keeping the triscount below 100K is a real good idea, and lower still in MP if possible. The FFA map I'm currently working on is all below 100K, and 95% of it is around 50K or less. Also, keep in mind that triscount is only a part of the equation. Excellent page on Q4 performance here: http://www.iddevnet.com/quake4/LevelEditor_Performance

[pjw]

Sounds like something you would write :] --

Don't cross the portals. They don't split each other like other geometry does, and intersecting portals leads to Bad Things™.

Nope, I didn't write anything on that page. But yeah, it's very well done.

[Lukin]

"I should have a beta of a DM map in a day or two to back it up. "

Oooh, that either means the MP patch is coming out and your map is going to be bundled along with it or you'll actually be releasing a non-Raven DM map.

Ahh, the wonders of speculation.

You were close. Pjw is releasing it as a non-Raven map and...

Finally, although we've released only small (but critical) updates to QUAKE 4 so far, we are working on a much broader update for release early next year, and we also have a couple of multiplayer map packs currently being tested for release in the near future. Stay tuned

[roughrider]

My god, it's been a long time! I can't believe how many of the names here I still recognize!

So how the hell are you all? And is Quake 4 any good then? I've not bought it for fear of being horribly disillusioned after the glorious wonderment of my time with Quake 3.

Whoooa! WB, after a long disappearing act.