Q4 - Mash-Up Streets (beta 5)

Discussion for Level editing, modeling, programming, or any of the other technical aspects of Quake
Method
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:00 am

Q4 - Mash-Up Streets (beta 5)

Post by Method »

After posting a sneak peak of Mash-Up Streets (methtourney1), Q4 pro community requested a public beta to make sure the item placement is suitable.

Some screenshots:

Image Image Image
Image Image Image

06-JAN-06

Here's beta 5:

http://www.methodonline.com/temp/methtourney1_beta5.zip

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

List of changes:

- Expended RA room
- Fixed steps in RA area
- Changed MH respawn time to 35 seconds (default)
- Mover RA jumppad to the right for more room
- Extended billboard ledge
- Removed RL/GL jumppad and added pipes to the side
- Replaced crates with pipes
- Removed accel pad and added a few ramps to the side
- Some visual changes
- Tweaked clip brushes
- Moved YA to RL ammo spot
- Moced RL ammo to LG ammo spot
- Moved LG ammo to SG ammo spot
- Moved SG ammo to RL ammo spot
- Removed shards in the middle
- Replaced HB small health to large

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

-Method
Last edited by Method on Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:06 am, edited 8 times in total.
primaltheory
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:31 am

Post by primaltheory »

I like it! Know what I think it needs though? Some sweet neon signs, so we can be better then 2k7's city! (cars would be cool too but thats a bit much)
Why not?

[i]Jenny: lol, i'm not changing the whole harddrive directory structure for a mod. Do it proper like other mods please.[/i]
sumatra
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Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:02 pm

Post by sumatra »

NEON \o/
[url=http://www.pukkadesign.com][color=#41c0eb]..::pukkadesign.com[/color][/url]
pjw
Posts: 860
Joined: Sun May 07, 2000 7:00 am

Post by pjw »

Cool map. :)

My suggestions:

1. Needs more/brighter light. At default gamma/brightness, I had real trouble seeing until I cranked up the settings.

2. After running around the map for a while, I found myself wondering why I would ever go downstairs. It's really tempting to just keep running a circuit upstairs. The exception, of course, is the YA (nicely placed. :) ). I would consider moving the NG in front of the crates and adding another YA where the NG was, getting rid of the +50 up top (or switching it to a +25), and losing the group of six shards. I think that would make the downstairs a lot more tempting to people. Or maybe I'm just weird. :)

3. The jump-up-the-crates is cool, but a bit cumbersome. Is there a way to shorten the climb just a bit? Maybe a slanted crate or pipe or something that would get you partway up quickly if you hit it right?

4. I'm personally not fond of that concrete texture, only because the normal map gets really shimmery and weird on large surfaces as you run around. Maybe switch that out for something else...? Sand or stone would work well, at least downstairs. I can't remember if all the concretes do that or not...

Hope this helps.
I beat the internet; the end guy is hard.
Method
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:00 am

Post by Method »

Hehe, about that armor place, pjw. My item placement is similar to yours (commercial title item placement), something that will be fun for regular players, yet all the pro community demanded to remove YA from that place or add another one to balance it out.

Several people commented about adding YA instead of NG and shards and that's what I'm doing. But those green healths really add up to the visuals. The buildings are dark, core is black and those little green lights really accent the place. But I guess gameplay is more important. I'll see what I can do. Thanks,

About the monitor gamma, many monitors work differently. I have LCD and it's fairly bright. I'm staying over my parents house for the holidays and they have 3 PC with CRT monitors, one of them is very dark others are fine. So you might consider running a gamma establishing tool or something.

-Method
pjw
Posts: 860
Joined: Sun May 07, 2000 7:00 am

Post by pjw »

Method wrote:those green healths really add up to the visuals.
Hmmn. I wasn't advocating removing the green health, only the single +50? Or should I have said "armor shards" instead of just shards? I need to remember that the green healths are also called shards now. Doh. To clarify: I'd maybe remove the single +50 health and the group of six armor shards up top (to make the two YAs that much more valuable). :)

Re: the brightness/gamma, I can load up the stock dm maps that shipped with the game, which is what I'm comparing them to (and, in my opinion, a couple of those could have used a bit more light in spots), and see just fine without cranking up settings. Monitor settings aside, yours is darker and I can't see comfortably. :shrug:
Method
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:00 am

Post by Method »

I'm sorry I know what you meant by shards, I was tired and confused 50+ as green healths up top. Not sure about the monitor though.

I'm planning on releasing beta2 soon.

-Method
primaltheory
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:31 am

Post by primaltheory »

Why not?

[i]Jenny: lol, i'm not changing the whole harddrive directory structure for a mod. Do it proper like other mods please.[/i]
Method
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:00 am

Post by Method »

Thank you.

-Method
primaltheory
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:31 am

Post by primaltheory »

no problems! every time you update the map lemme know and i'll update it!
Why not?

[i]Jenny: lol, i'm not changing the whole harddrive directory structure for a mod. Do it proper like other mods please.[/i]
pjw
Posts: 860
Joined: Sun May 07, 2000 7:00 am

Re: Q4 - Mash-Up Streets (beta2)

Post by pjw »

The new YA plus moving the other one up top feels like a huge improvement to me. Good stuff.

Near the RL there are two +25s very close to one another? I assume this should just be one?

When you're jumping to the jumppad up to the high YA from the area where I'm standing below, you hit your head and get screwed up. How about either raising or recessing that beam?

Image

Finally, the light right in front of the high YA does really weird things to the player shadow when you get it inside the player model--you should probably either pull the center up/out or turn off shadows on that light.
Method
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:00 am

Post by Method »

Thanks a lot, pjw. I have map clipped very good, but forgot about that spot. It used to have breaker box that connected the cables. I can't wait to get to my place to polish the map, sorry if I released it with such things, but keep in mind, I'm away from my PC and using GeForce 2 to work on this.

Thanks again, nice looking out.

Edit: I just looked ay the spot where you got stuck and I actually didn't forgot to clip it back. It has a clip brush that should move you aside a little instead of bump off.

-Method
pjw
Posts: 860
Joined: Sun May 07, 2000 7:00 am

Post by pjw »

Method wrote:I just looked ay the spot where you got stuck and I actually didn't forgot to clip it back. It has a clip brush that should move you aside a little instead of bump off.
Well...yeah...it *does* move you aside. But then you crash into the wall instead of landing on the jumppad to the YA where you were aiming. :)
Method
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Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:00 am

Post by Method »

Could you record me a demo of that jump, pjw? I can't seem to get it on this slow machine.

-Method
pjw
Posts: 860
Joined: Sun May 07, 2000 7:00 am

Post by pjw »

Here, see if this helps clarify. Top-down view:

Image

It's possible to do a clean jump through there (although tight), but I bump my head and splat into the post by the pad.

It might not be a bad idea to move that light fixture right there too (just above the pad in the shot above).
Method
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:00 am

Post by Method »

Here's beta 3:

http://www.methodonline.com/temp/methtourney1_beta3.zip

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

List of changes:

- Removed health near RL
- Clipped ledges that could be used as camper spots
- Extended buildings in LG and RL ammo rooms
- Removed light fixture on the jumppad side of the tower so the player won't be bumped off
- Moved the floor up in the RG room for better flow
- Added steps in HB hallway for better flow
- Added crates near HB ammo ledge
- Fixed some stretched textures

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-Method
Johnny Law
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 8:00 am

Post by Johnny Law »

So, I played this for a bit... I've been out of the game (both mapping and playing) long enough that I don't have anything like expert commentary to provide, but for what it's worth, here's a few bits:

First off: overall, it is good. Polished and fun. Kudos! The isolated tower with the high YA is a nice focal point for the map gameplay-wise, and it's always nice to have a unique "hook" to help people remember your map.

After some running around in the map, and then a set of games vs. Sabot, the following are the only things that bugged me about the play. More or less in decreasing order of annoyance.

- The circular jumppad by the low YA that throws you up and to the side. The convention for circular jumppads on level ground is that they throw you up and forward. This one took a bit of gettings used to, and even then it still "felt wrong". A visual cue for the jump direction here would be nice. Even if it's something in the surrounding architecture rather than the jumppad itself.

- The accel pad underneath the high YA. For some reason it bugs me that I can't leap onto this from in front of it; instead, I have to trundle around the side and get on from the "correct direction", which feels like a bit of needless hoop-jumpery. It may just be me. :) Thought I'd throw it out for your consideration anyway.

- Finally, this is actually a bit more severe issue than the accel pad, but it comes up less often: The clip ceiling around the high YA is low enough that you will bonk on it if you attempt to rocketjump up to the YA.


As for aesthetics, no big criticisms here. Maybe the look is a little _too_ consistent across the map? A subtle variation in lighting, or edging, or something to distinguish the various zones might be in order. Also, random comment, it seems like the structure containing the high YA should peak out at a higher altitude than the surrounding buildings. Feel free to ignore these comments if you are happily and definitively past the visuals-work stage.


Bot bit: I noticed that the Sabot tended to get stuck on the ledge that holds the health shards, above the circular jumppad that I complained about. Some fiddly architecture there that could probably stand for some botclipping. (Although, the Sabot readme mentions monsterclip instead, which confuses me.)
Method
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:00 am

Post by Method »

Good suggestions. I'll see what I can fix for future beta.

Here's beta 4:

http://www.methodonline.com/temp/methtourney1_beta4.zip

List of changes:

- Moved YA on tower to RL ammo hallway
- Added MH on the tower with respawn of 60 seconds
- Replaced YA to RA in RG room
- Added 5 armor shards in LG alley
- Added some dirt decals

-Method
Method
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:00 am

Post by Method »

Johnny Law: I moved the RA jumppad to the wall, so now it pushed the player up and forward, plus creates more room in that area. Good looking out man.

pjw: You should be able to do your jump no problem. I removed light fixtures on jumppad side of the building and clipped that ledge better.

-Method
Method
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:00 am

Post by Method »

After watching recent demos of tourney maps, I decided to try this layout (No Railgun):

http://www.methodonline.com/temp/layout_norail.jpg

What do you guys think?

-Method
primaltheory
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:31 am

Post by primaltheory »

idk I never liked the railgun anyways, but what about ammo for the other guns?
Why not?

[i]Jenny: lol, i'm not changing the whole harddrive directory structure for a mod. Do it proper like other mods please.[/i]
Method
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:00 am

Post by Method »

Oh it's there, I just highlighted the most important items. Now that you mentioned it, I forgot to add SG.

Open the image again, it should have the other ammos, if not refresh your browser.

-Method
primaltheory
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:31 am

Post by primaltheory »

Ah ok...Yea looks good to me, would be sweet to play this vs somebody right about... now :-P Shame neither of us have servers (or do you?)
Why not?

[i]Jenny: lol, i'm not changing the whole harddrive directory structure for a mod. Do it proper like other mods please.[/i]
Method
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:00 am

Post by Method »

I have a good machine that could handle 1 on 1 server (Los Angeles, CA, USA). But, I'm staying over my parents house for the holidays and have to use GeForce 2 to work on these betas :( Also the new layout hasn't been released as beta, just an idea. If I'll get positive comments, it should be beta 5. I never in my left went over beta 2, but this map, is crazy.

-Method
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