q4map Rusted - Beta 1

[StormShadow]

A few things. First, this map in all likelihood will be submitted to the VIA/Doom3World mapping comp, so please dont distribute this map anywhere outside this forum. I had a bad experience with a beta of mine getting stuck up on quake4files.com before I was ready for it to be there, and I would rather not repeat that experience

Obligatory Screenshot:


There are two files in this pk4, storm4dm3, and storm4dm3_a. The second is an alternate build without the railgun.

My concerns are that the map is too open for the railgun, and that its too easy to camp certain areas. I did try to put the RG in an out of the way location in build 1, but it may not be enough.

I am mostly looking for item placement feedback, but I will retool the layout if need be, so feel free to suggest anything.

DL here:
http://www.planetquake.com/stormshadow/ ... 3_beta.zip

[Hipshot]

...however, this looks pretty nice!
mm, VIA

[Geit]

Looks good, I'll give it a whirl

[Geit]

Some comments at a quick glance:
- I like the layout :icon25:
- The jumppad shader seems to be missing
- The ceilings seem to be a bit low, I don't bump my head, but it looks and feels a bit awkward.

I'll look at the item placement more closely when I find the time.

[sumatra]

Great layout. Feels a bit tight though. Maybe raising the ceiling a tad it would feel more natural.
I like your itemplacement very much. It feels well balanced (from the first look) and keeps the players moving. Also the teleporter support the overall flow of the very fast map. Never seen such a vertical interconnection/fightingarea in Q4. But it seems to work great.

I have one small suggestion though:
The curve beneath the RG needs some major item. Was thinking of a second RL, but it would be quite near to the RG. Maybe a 50h bubble would serve as well.

Good job, like this vertical gameplay.
(That's one of the things I missed in Q4)

[primaltheory]

How did you get the green tele and the yellow jumppad? I couldn't figue out how to do that!

[StormShadow]

Okay thats 2 requests to raise the celing.. ill bump it up 32 units or so.

- The jumppad shader seems to be missing

I just checked the shader, I misspelled something.. it will be fixed

The curve beneath the RG needs some major item. Was thinking of a second RL, but it would be quite near to the RG. Maybe a 50h bubble would serve as well

I intentionally left that area barren of any health to prevent camping, to negate the railgun a bit. I agree that the area does need a little something.. ill debate what I can put there.. 2nd sg possibly?

Good job, like this vertical gameplay.

Thanks! Ive never really made a good vertical level, I thought this would be a good opportunity for me to do so especially since, as you mentioned, q4 seems to be lacking them.

How did you get the green tele and the yellow jumppad? I couldn't figue out how to do that!

If you have the Q4 XMAS map pack, then you have the proper jump pad. It will be in the same directory as the normal jpad, but it will be called jumppad_color.lwo or something. You can add a color key to that pad to get the yellow fx. You can also select any func_fx effect and add a color key to it. Thats how I got the yellow jpad effects, and the yellow weapon marker fx. I tried to do a matching yellow for the TP, but for some reason it comes out green (maybe its a mix of the blueish tp fx and my yellow?).

Key: color
value: <color code>

[primaltheory]

Oh alright! Thanks was wondering about that!

[Oeloe]

Not liking the stock teleporter model.

[hemostick]

If you really want a yellow teleport effect, you could always modify a copy of the func_fx =)

Here's my go at it. To the left, vanilla teleporter.fx - both func_fx use the same color key (1 0.7 0).

Save teleporter_col.fx in effects/mp/ and assign a func_fx _color of 1 0.7 0 (increasing the green higher will make some bits shift out of yellowish to more-than-enough-green) in the editor.
Voila, golden tele

[pjw]

This is feeling pretty cool. I think the RG is okay as-is in the first version--might be even more okay if you sink the tele to reach it back a little deeper to even make it more dangerous. Performance seems quite good as well--nice job.

Suggestions:

1. Maybe add a little pinkish-reddish glow around the surface of the blood/acid/goo?

2. The sloped pipes that you can walk on need some work. They look just sorta jammed in there and have no real fittings or anything (also, the one needs to be lowered/extended since you can see inside it ).

3. I'd really like to see this expanded just a bit more if you're amenable. Right now it feels like there are just two areas--the RL area and surrounding stuff, and the tele-to-RG/RG off in a second area. It feels like it could be a solid Tourney map, but it feels a bit small for DM. Maybe a third "area" off behind GL, or off behind RG, either way? (Or even under either of those areas...or above...)

4. You don't need to extend your sky brushes up like that for the two lights you have set off in the atmosphere. I think you should just be able to put a small caulk box around the light entity to prevent leaks... I also notice that you're using projected lights almost entirely; is there any reason for this, or is it just a preference, or...? I also notice that none of your lights have an assigned texture--you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't take this step, since the default texture is considerably darker and less interesting than some of the others. rav_squarebevel_02 is a nice bright-but-not-too-harshly-edged choice for general lighting.

5. I think you'ld be able to tone down your ambient a bit and have the level look better--brightness is about 100 now, and I think you could tone it down to half that and mess with the rest of the lighting a bit to compensate--normals would get a lot more pop. I noticed on my recent level that things looked a lot nicer when I took this step.

[Edit: Oh yeah, and the little plat overlooking the RG tele (on the r as you're facing tele) seems really weird and empty--maybe just add some ammo or a couple of health shards, or something?]

[SonicClang]

I don't have time to play this tonight, but I just wanted to say that the screenshot you posted looks really cool. I can take a run through tomorrow night.

[StormShadow]

If you really want a yellow teleport effect, you could always modify a copy of the func_fx =)

thx, I will certainly add that that

I'd really like to see this expanded just a bit more if you're amenable. Right now it feels like there are just two areas--the RL area and surrounding stuff, and the tele-to-RG/RG off in a second area. It feels like it could be a solid Tourney map, but it feels a bit small for DM. Maybe a third "area" off behind GL, or off behind RG, either way? (Or even under either of those areas...or above...)

I thougt about expanding.. but I expanding an existing layout has never really worked well for me. Plus the focus is 1v1, whether or not it works as an ffa doesnt concern me too much

You don't need to extend your sky brushes up like that for the two lights you have set off in the atmosphere. I think you should just be able to put a small caulk box around the light entity to prevent leaks

Okay, ill give that a go. Im just concerned that it wont show up properly... like, if its blocked, it wont cast? Ill mess around and see what I can do. The .map file does look pretty ghetto with those big ass towers encasing the lights.

I also notice that you're using projected lights almost entirely; is there any reason for this, or is it just a preference, or...?

In short, yes Most of my main lights are overhead lights, and I think they look better this way. I love the shadow effect as well, even though I know 90% of ppl who play this map wont see it.

I also notice that none of your lights have an assigned texture--you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't take this step, since the default texture is considerably darker and less interesting than some of the others. rav_squarebevel_02 is a nice bright-but-not-too-harshly-edged choice for general lighting.

I was completely aware that I had this option! Using textures on the lights never even crossed my mind. Great tip, I will definitely implement this.

5. I think you'ld be able to tone down your ambient a bit and have the level look better--brightness is about 100 now, and I think you could tone it down to half that and mess with the rest of the lighting a bit to compensate--normals would get a lot more pop. I noticed on my recent level that things looked a lot nicer when I took this step.

I will tone it down a bit, but I really do want it to be functional as a competetive tourney map, i.e. - playable first, pretty second. I also think that the lighting is relatively realistic considering the amount of sunlight I have - I simply dont think shadows would be especially dark. Hell, I dunno.. I will tool around with it...

Thanks a lot!

[pjw]

Most of my main lights are overhead lights, and I think they look better this way. I love the shadow effect as well, even though I know 90% of ppl who play this map wont see it.

Are you aware that you can get exactly (well, maybe not *exactly*, but eh) the same effect if you pull the centers out on simple volumetric lights? (e.g. check the little "center" box and pull the pink dot around--you can pull the center *way* outside the volume itself if you want long cast shadows). Plus the regular volumetric lights are more flexible and a lot more friendly to tweak, IMO.

I was completely aware that I had this option!

LOL. I just found the typo funny.

I will tone it down a bit, but I really do want it to be functional as a competetive tourney map, i.e. - playable first, pretty second. I also think that the lighting is relatively realistic considering the amount of sunlight I have - I simply dont think shadows would be especially dark. Hell, I dunno.. I will tool around with it...

Just know that seriously competitive players are going to have their brightness cranked and shadows turned off anyway, so don't be too concerned. In any case though, you could have pretty much the same brightness almost everywhere--just less ambient and more directional light to help the normals/spec.

[Oeloe]

Yeah, forgot to mention i got 60 FPS _everywhere_ on your map with a radeon 9800. No fps tweaks.

[StormShadow]

Are you aware that you can get exactly (well, maybe not *exactly*, but eh) the same effect if you pull the centers out on simple volumetric lights? (e.g. check the little "center" box and pull the pink dot around--you can pull the center *way* outside the volume itself if you want long cast shadows). Plus the regular volumetric lights are more flexible and a lot more friendly to tweak, IMO.

No, I was not aware at all. I guess you learn something new every day I may implement this, but I may not have time to experiment much, as the contest is over very soon and I have a ton of other stuff to fix. Thanks for the tip though, I will certainly get some use out of this in the future

Just know that seriously competitive players are going to have their brightness cranked and shadows turned off anyway, so don't be too concerned. In any case though, you could have pretty much the same brightness almost everywhere--just less ambient and more directional light to help the normals/spec.

Gotcha.

Yeah, forgot to mention i got 60 FPS _everywhere_ on your map with a radeon 9800. No fps tweaks.

Glad to hear it I was concerned that some of my recent additions may have hurt the performance a bit, but I guess not. Performance is a one of the things im being judged on, so its key to keep everything reasonable.

[hemostick]

Yeah, this runs supersmooth, and game flow seems fast. I tend to hit low ceilings next to ramps in a few places though.