WWWHHHYYY????

[o'dium]

Im sorry i still find it just so hard to understand WHY Raven left out liquids...? I have about 97 thousand ideas here for maps and stuff but without water, they are just pointless...? ARGH...

[MKJ]

its because of the OMG THIS IS TEH BEST THING EVER IT CAN DO ANYTHING-Doom3 engine.
apparently, id feels [doom3] is their greatest work

[Dr4ch]

water!water!water! waaateeer ? WATEEEEEEEEER !!!!!

which movie is that quote from ?

nervermind, I think most mods will implement some sort of water like we will in xbm :

[lvlshot]http://www.dr4ch.de/pics/edge/shot00060.jpg[/lvlshot]

[Oeloe]

The splash doesn't seem to be coloured by it's environment? I don't think a single bullet would cause such a splash btw).

Btw are you using the heathaze.vfp prog as a surrogate for water refraction like Q4F does?

[o'dium]

The problem is that mods shouldn't have to add water. Who wants to map for a mod? Whe nit wont work in VQ4?

[Dr4ch]

whats working in vanillaq4 anyway ? stairs are bugged, weaponswitch is bugged, fps are bugged, scoreboard bugged, teamsay bugged, hitboxes bugged, proportions bugged and so on. and imho whoever got his server running with vanillaq4 wont have custommaps anyway.

Imho q4 was release too early, now we have to rely on mods and custommaps.

[Lukin]

[lvlshot]http://www.dr4ch.de/pics/edge/shot00060.jpg[/lvlshot]

Q2dm1 revisited :icon26:

The splash doesn't seem to be coloured by it's environment? I don't think a single bullet would cause such a splash btw).

Water splashes are implemented in vQ4 (work only with machinegun), and I guess XBM guys didn't touched it (yet). The size may be indeed too big, but on the other hand it could be too small from the first person perspective.

its because of the OMG THIS IS TEH BEST THING EVER IT CAN DO ANYTHING-Doom3 engine.

Well, modders could make the water w/o much problems so the lack of liquids in "Q4" is not an engine's fault for sure. I blame "beginners friendly attempt" that affected the whole industry and so "Q4". It assumes really strange forms (one armor per map, machinegun with zoom, etc.). Maybe designers thought the water physics (slow motion, moving in vertical direction, etc.) would be too much for noobs.

[Lukin]

whats working in vanillaq4 anyway ? stairs are bugged, weaponswitch is bugged, fps are bugged, scoreboard bugged, teamsay bugged, hitboxes bugged, proportions bugged and so on. and imho whoever got his server running with vanillaq4 wont have custommaps anyway.

But those are bugs (didn't hear about this one with proportions though) - they may be fixed in the patch and they don't affect the maps that much. The water issue is not a bug, is a lack of feature. I doubt Raven will implement this, so the map that uses water will work only with selected mods.

[Foo]

Might be good for singleplayer, but in terms of multiplayer water's a load of shit.

it worked in Q3 and look how often it got used. Like once on the OSP edge remake and a couple of times in the stock maps.

Sure, having it is good, but pegging so much frustration on it? Nothing that good will come of it anyway.

I'd be more bothered about the stupid portal system, enforced bump maps, and dumb lighting system that absolutely cripples mapping in comparison to Q3.

[Lukin]

it worked in Q3 and look how often it got used. Like once on the OSP edge remake and a couple of times in the stock maps.

Also in a few custom TDM maps (CPM13, CPM26, CPM23, CPM14) and in a lot of CTF maps :P

[SonicClang]

For DM water sucks. I don't think anone's questioning that. But for single player it can add a fair amount of fun. Just look at Quake 1. Some of those levels used water really effectively. And the fact that the water wasn't actually transparent from the surface made it scarier!

[prince1000]

maybe there is no water on the planet this is supposed to take place on jesus who cares anyway?

[jester!]

I believe Q2 would disagree with you. :icon32:

[o'dium]

maybe there is no water on the planet this is supposed to take place on jesus who cares anyway?

ever play quake 2 son?

[corsair]

urm.. with so many ideas, I'm sure you can come up with plenty that don't require water - there really isnt any reason to focus on whats lacking..

edit (except for perhaps the utter moronic marine models)

[Oeloe]

Lava falls into the same category as water, and was used a lot in all of the previous quakes. No one even mentioned q3ctf2 btw!

[corsair]

well it is true its very queer it is left out, I also cant think of a propper reason for it - except for perhaps that the game is indeed rushed like I heard some people tell, for example I heard that the playerscale has been turned up, because the maps appeared too large o_O.

mmm, q3ctf2. . best map of quake3, that map is pure sex

PJ

[Dr4ch]

After working with water i must say that i think i know why they didnt inlcuded it, it would look worse then other titles and has some bugs like reflections exclude areas that have visportals and other stuff. not to forget the swimming animations.

But without water something lacks, be it that you could hear your enemy if he jumped through a puddle (pfütze, i hope puddle is right for that) of water or as lava so you havent to use the void.

Think of it as the contrary to a teleporter. tp makes you pass a certain distance faster, then you would need if going by foot. water slows you down a certain amount, for a distance you could be faster if not taking the direct route.

[prince1000]

maybe there is no water on the planet this is supposed to take place on jesus who cares anyway?

ever play quake 2 son?

who cares? that's the main point...q4 sucks for other reasons which need to be addressed before making it possible to make levels with water in them.

edit: yes i have played q2..

[SonicClang]

Quake 4 sucks? That's news to me man.

[Lukin]

I agree that for FFA and Tourney modes water is useless. But it's not that bad in TDM (dm3) and (at least for me) almost necessary in CTF. Well, the lack of liquids is not a good reason for whining, especially when you compare it to other issues, but it's a disappointment for sure.

After working with water i must say that i think i know why they didnt inlcuded it, it would look worse then other titles and has some bugs like reflections exclude areas that have visportals and other stuff. not to forget the swimming animations.

Don't care about the look. To be honest I would like it to be like in old "Quake" (with more shader passes and some faked reflections it could look quite good) - all those current pixel shaders kill my video card :P Also, "Q2" didn't have swimming anims and it wasn't that bad

[Dr4ch]

dont worry, you can have all sorts of water. its a func_liquid and the water effects like refraction and reflections will be optional. depends how you set up the material for each renderpath.

[Jenny]

Every map should stick the railgun at the bottom of a large pool.

[corsair]

nah, railgun should be excluded imo ;] - except on tight maps they aren't as much of a gameplay killer.

Lukin; I dont really agree that water in tourney mode is useless, its been stated in this very thread, that they can give a very good sound clue - now you're limited to do this with itempickups.
Think of q3dm2 (not the most played map, nor do I know if you ever played it, but.. ) There at the route from Red armor to the Plasma gun, the water makes almost the whole map (and the dead end at the Rocket Launcher manages to kill it on its turn).

It could be done with a shader perhaps, that sound clue, but then there is no way in keeping the sound seperated by movement-method (walking, running, jumping in/out water) like in quake3.

I'll just hope one of the gameplay mods will eventualy implement it, although I doubt it'll come to that.

[MKJ]

After working with water i must say that i think i know why they didnt inlcuded it, it would look worse then other titles and has some bugs like reflections exclude areas that have visportals and other stuff. not to forget the swimming animations.

that was indeed my point