WWWHHHYYY????

[Lukin]

dont worry, you can have all sorts of water. its a func_liquid and the water effects like refraction and reflections will be optional. depends how you set up the material for each renderpath.

Excellent.

[corsair]

func_liquid seems to have an empty .def here

[Lukin]

Lukin; I dont really agree that water in tourney mode is useless, its been stated in this very thread, that they can give a very good sound clue - now you're limited to do this with itempickups.
Think of q3dm2 (not the most played map, nor do I know if you ever played it, but.. ) There at the route from Red armor to the Plasma gun, the water makes almost the whole map (and the dead end at the Rocket Launcher manages to kill it on its turn).

Yeah, such puddles are ok, even in a tourney mode. When I wrote that the water is useless I meant a deep pools. Shallows can be made in "Q4" ("Phrantic" has something like that), the only problem is a sound.

It could be done with a shader perhaps, that sound clue, but then there is no way in keeping the sound seperated by movement-method (walking, running, jumping in/out water) like in quake3.

You can make the trigger that actives a speaker entity. The biggest flaw of this solution is that the speaker would emit sounds even when a player would not move.

[corsair]

Even deep pools arent useless, for they do have a use - especialy in ffa maps. Since ffa maps aren't made especialy for gameplay, but for funplay instead - for example, the route through water as in q3dm12 is extremely great when it comes to a fresh addition to ffa gameplay. I loved how that map offers both posibilities heavy battles, AND temporal isolation from that.

(image of q3dm12 to clear things up)


then again, I'm not too disapointed by the lack of liquids in q4, for I'll just do with whatever is given (and thats already more than keeping me busy atm) - but ofcourse, the more the better.

The biggest flaw of this solution is that the speaker would emit sounds even when a player would not move.

thats what I meant by "sound seperated by movement-method" ;]

[Lukin]

M'kay, but q3dm12 is rather unplayable as a tourney level

[MKJ]

thats more because of its size than the inclusion of water

[Lukin]

Of course. But still it's a bad example.

To make all things clear - I'm not against using liquids in a duel level. Q2dm1 without a water is not the same map. But in most cases it just doesn't work and if it all would be about tourney levels then I would not miss func_liquid at all.

[Fjoggs]

What? Water and liquids in a tourney is a great addition. It's a cheap way to make an item more dangerous to grab. The good 'ol "meghealth-in-a-dead-end-with-water" never goes old.

[Survivor]

It's still the the mapper who puts it to use as he sees fit and the option to put it in or leave it out is better than having no choice at all. At least that's how I see it. Including it as an option is not an obligation to mappers to use it.

[xchaser]

Q1 had water and lava, Q2 had lava and water, Q3 had water and green what ever that burn and now its red in Q4 with no water. The best one was Q2 lava that was the best when you hear people droppin in the lava.

[corsair]

It's still the the mapper who puts it to use as he sees fit and the option to put it in or leave it out is better than having no choice at all. At least that's how I see it. Including it as an option is not an obligation to mappers to use it.

Its a shame the common player blames a mapper for 'unwise' choices, rather than a close-mindedness and fear from variation on the player's end ;p

[Survivor]

I would love to play some barely known maps. I have come across some I like which have a distinct feeling to them outside of the ordinary tactics applied and it makes you rethink how you play.

People that say there should never be a bfg in a map or that a rl is a must have been idling on the spot. I would love to see a map where there is no rl, rg or bfg because it forces you to play according to new rules.
I have seen the light on the bfg issue when I redid ax and foo's q3tower. I put it in a plain, accesible and wideopen spot because ingame I saw that the bfg sucks at big open spaces like those in q3tower so why exclude it? (besides the fact it looked cool as hell when the bfg began raping the tower from that spot.)

[Foo]

The biggest problem facing custom levels IMO is the approach to them on servers.

I mean it's fair enough - I'm not singling Q4 out since there doesn't seem to be any game that's come up with a good mechanism of politely forcing the occasional custom level into people's regular game playing.... but it is IMO the main reason for a lack of enthusiasm for any level that breaks the status quo.

[Survivor]

Most servers on wolfenstein: ET have it set up the best I have seen yet. If you don't have a map the game will refer to a ftp ingame, automatically download the map and continue. These ftp's are mostly owned by the same people who run the servers so they have a good speed and always the correct version. It's a nice system.

[Foo]

Yeah, 'URL Redirect'.

Here's hoping.

Also, hopefully, that will become a standard feature in newer custom Q3 builds too.

[Survivor]

Request to Foo: could you split the posts concerning midair rockets to a new topic so this one doesn't get derailed?

Reef's server had 1 vs 1 in the beginning but he asked me to expand the map a bit, that became mar1 which is basicly twice the main room connected with an upper and lower tunnel. We played some extremely nice 3 vs 3 in it. And there is the unfinished mar2. I still have it but I suck at texturing it so if anyone volunteers you can have it.

[Foo]

Of course. Done.

New topic is here: http://www.quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15669

[Infernis]

Btw are you using the heathaze.vfp prog as a surrogate for water refraction like Q4F does?

So that's the program used QTF for water? Because the screens look amazing.

If so does anyone have some more information on the program? I did a google on it an it brought me too this site. Is that what you guys are referring too?

Also, the QTF team is apparently using a lot of water in their maps. Why wouldn't this work for a normal FFA map?

[Oeloe]

So that's the program used QTF for water? Because the screens look amazing.

If so does anyone have some more information on the program? I did a google on it an it brought me too this site. Is that what you guys are referring too?

Also, the QTF team is apparently using a lot of water in their maps. Why wouldn't this work for a normal FFA map?

Well, someone said it's actually really ugly and unrealistic because of the visual distortion of players in the water. It's Q4Fortress (Q4F) btw (not TF). The screenshots do look good, but they don't show you the details.

Edit: so, yes they use that heathaze program i mentioned. That's the last thing i read about it anyway from someone in the q4f team.

[Infernis]

But still what did they use in Q4F ?

Because I'm remaking a Q1 map which featured a lot of water. It would be cool to do the same in Q4 otherwise I would have to rely on fog.

[Dr4ch]

Q4F uses water as well as some other mods will support this, namely x-battle and quakeworld remix. so if you want to remake an old q1 map with water do it for the qwr mod, but they allready have dm4, dm6, amphi and povdmm.You can build your map with water in mind, water will be func_liquid so you will just need to rightklick a brush to get it to work later. water textures can be made undependently from the mods.

[Eraser]

"pfffsssshhh ugh ugh pfffsssshhh ugh ugh pfffsssshhh huuaaaaaa!"

Eraser did a backflip in the lava

[Oeloe]

Oeloe took a fatally hot bath
*bleep* "|LoL|"

:icon32:

[Infernis]

Q4F uses water as well as some other mods will support this, namely x-battle and quakeworld remix. so if you want to remake an old q1 map with water do it for the qwr mod, but they allready have dm4, dm6, amphi and povdmm.You can build your map with water in mind, water will be func_liquid so you will just need to rightklick a brush to get it to work later. water textures can be made undependently from the mods.

Actually it's not an stock map but an custom map by Glassman. Thanks for the brief explanation but still doesn't answer if the link to the modwike I provided earlier is the same technique used by those guys. I like to be able to develop this on my own without the aid of a mod.

I also took another look at those Q4F screens but I have to say it looks good and it's hard for me to imagine that it will look a lot worse imagine. Not saying you guys are wrong, but just a statement based on my impressions.

[Dr4ch]

I dont know what q4f uses but i can confirm that for x-battle and qwr it will be like in that link you posted.but making something with waterphysics without a mod is impossible.