What do I do wrong?
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I cant spell u
- Posts: 1328
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:00 am
What do I do wrong?
I haven't played that much but now I started getting into it a bit, I know the tricks like strafe jump and rocket jump but I still don't do that well. I mean I don't come in last every time but I don't make it that close to the middle ranks. Does it just take time to develop skill and such or am I not doing something right?
It depends what server you're playing on (with highly skilled/average/below average players) of course. I've been playing for almost 2.5 years now and i'm still improving a lot. Basically what you want to achieve is that you never panic during the game, when you're taking heavy damage just keep aiming looking out for incoming shots. It just takes a lot of experience to be aware of so many things at the same time; movement and aim must become automatic for a big part (light mouse movement with very little strain of the hand/arm muscles) and quick decisions get more important. It takes a couple of years to reache that point for most people.
If you think you're doing something wrong, you should realize that every quaker makes mistakes and gets fragged. If you want to know whether you repeatedly make obvious mistakes, you could make a demo and upload it, so we can comment on it. If you manage to find a skilled player that's friendly enough to spectate you to give you some advice that would be even easier of course.
If you think you're doing something wrong, you should realize that every quaker makes mistakes and gets fragged. If you want to know whether you repeatedly make obvious mistakes, you could make a demo and upload it, so we can comment on it. If you manage to find a skilled player that's friendly enough to spectate you to give you some advice that would be even easier of course.
Last edited by Oeloe on Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
You can use a script like this:
bind F12 "vstr dem"
set dem "vstr dem_rec"
set dem_rec "seta g_synchronousclients 1;record demo01;seta g_synchronousclients 0;set dem vstr dem_stp"
set dem_stp "stoprecord;set dem vstr dem_rec"
Pressing F12 starts to record a demo and pressing again stops it. Pressing again will overwrite the demo but there are scripts that can record 10 different demos if you want to record more than one demo and keep the last one.
You can save these lines in a txt file (with wordpad/notepad) and save it as demorec.cfg and put it in baseq3. Then make Q3 execute the script in the console with: exec demorec.cfg. If you want to have the script available at all times, you can make a file called autoexec.cfg and put that line "exec demorec.cfg" in it.
bind F12 "vstr dem"
set dem "vstr dem_rec"
set dem_rec "seta g_synchronousclients 1;record demo01;seta g_synchronousclients 0;set dem vstr dem_stp"
set dem_stp "stoprecord;set dem vstr dem_rec"
Pressing F12 starts to record a demo and pressing again stops it. Pressing again will overwrite the demo but there are scripts that can record 10 different demos if you want to record more than one demo and keep the last one.
You can save these lines in a txt file (with wordpad/notepad) and save it as demorec.cfg and put it in baseq3. Then make Q3 execute the script in the console with: exec demorec.cfg. If you want to have the script available at all times, you can make a file called autoexec.cfg and put that line "exec demorec.cfg" in it.
Re: What do I do wrong?
yup :icon14:I cant spell u wrote:Does it just take time to develop skill...?
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I cant spell u
- Posts: 1328
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:00 am
Hehe. :icon25: I watched part of it and the pattern of errors is quite easy to spot. Let me say this first though: i don't see why you wouldn't have the potential to become a skilled Q3 player. It takes quite some time to get really good but in the meantime you can enjoy your games, especially at times you feel you're doing better than usually. That will happen mostly when you do more things right _consciously_ (when you've learned the best way to aim with a certain weapon for instance).
Now about the things i see in your demo that can be improved:
At each spawn, you start to run straight forward towards the closest player you see and you keep doing that until you've fragged him/her, or you move back when you get hit too much, but most of the time you get killed. Running straight at other players right after you spawn is actually the dumbest thing you can do because they are likely to be more armored and carrying better weapons than your MG.
So the first thing you must do is get a good weapon and depending on the gametype, get armor too (in FFA there will be less opportunity to get armor than other game types). You can take much more hits when you've got armor so it's extremely important to get it. When you're taking damage, just run and don't seek confrontation. Make sure you know all the places where you can pick up health.
Once you've got a good weapon, you should know at which range to use it. Because rockets give knockback, you can close in on an opponent and knock him around and make the kill. With most other weapons it's too risky to do this so you'll have to change your pattern of movement a lot to make more kills. Because you use the same strategy now for all weapons, you get killed a lot.
The LG is useful for tracking an enemy's sideways movements for example; shoot him and keep aiming at him (by synchronizing your strafing with his) while he's moving around, but don't let him get too close. In that case, if you don't have an RL, switch to shotgun or PG or perhaps RG when it's worth the risk. But vice versa: if a target is moving so much through the air that he's hard to hit with rockets, use the instant hit weapons (hitscan) LG/SG/RG or MG.
In FFA games, you have to pay attention to how much players are getting hit. If a number of players are fighting and you only have a weak weapon like MG, shoot at the weakest player and try to steal the kill. When you see a player carrying a RG, you should not shoot him when you only have MG so that you don't draw his attention, unless you think you can finish him or when you can't escape from him anyway.
I can tell from watching your demo that you don't know how to strafejump (properly) yet. You seem to be pressing strafe while jumping forward, which give you a little bit of acceleration, but it doesn't come close to the speed you get from real strafejumping. Learn how to do circle jumps first; that's what you do to get speed quickly. Spectate some good players on servers and watch how they move. You'll notice they are doing a lot of sideways mouse movements. Btw while you're strafejumping during combat, you should use your time to look around for enemies. Don't just look straight ahead where you're running to. Look out for camping enemies up above, behind walls, corners, doorways, etc.
So the next time you enter the arena, remind yourself that the most important thing you need to do is actually stay alive. You do that by getting good weapons and armor.
The next step is to decide how to approach an enemy. Always use the proper weapon and make use of opportunities to hit targets when you're not in combat. When you see someone in the air at q3dm6, grab your RG/LG/SG or MG and shoot. When using rail, make SURE your crosshair is on the target before you shoot. Don't be afraid you'll shoot too late because you'll almost certainly miss when you quickly shoot where you *think* you'll hit. The same thing goes for aiming with SG, although more timing is involved with that weapon. The trick with SG is _not_ to keep tracking your target but to hold the crosshair still at the spot where he's strafing to. Aiming takes time so if you try to shoot where your opponent is, you're already too late. So aim where your opponent will be in half a second and just time the shot with very little adjustment of your crosshair.
Try to shoot more at players' feet with rockets too.
Another remark about your movement: make sure you can easily walk in circles with your movement keys. It's very necessary to be able to move backwards properly while aiming and shooting at opponents. So try to break your habit of running forward at every spawn and run to good weapons+armor first. Then head to areas where most fights take place and make kills. Retreat when you're low on health.
Now about the things i see in your demo that can be improved:
At each spawn, you start to run straight forward towards the closest player you see and you keep doing that until you've fragged him/her, or you move back when you get hit too much, but most of the time you get killed. Running straight at other players right after you spawn is actually the dumbest thing you can do because they are likely to be more armored and carrying better weapons than your MG.
So the first thing you must do is get a good weapon and depending on the gametype, get armor too (in FFA there will be less opportunity to get armor than other game types). You can take much more hits when you've got armor so it's extremely important to get it. When you're taking damage, just run and don't seek confrontation. Make sure you know all the places where you can pick up health.
Once you've got a good weapon, you should know at which range to use it. Because rockets give knockback, you can close in on an opponent and knock him around and make the kill. With most other weapons it's too risky to do this so you'll have to change your pattern of movement a lot to make more kills. Because you use the same strategy now for all weapons, you get killed a lot.
The LG is useful for tracking an enemy's sideways movements for example; shoot him and keep aiming at him (by synchronizing your strafing with his) while he's moving around, but don't let him get too close. In that case, if you don't have an RL, switch to shotgun or PG or perhaps RG when it's worth the risk. But vice versa: if a target is moving so much through the air that he's hard to hit with rockets, use the instant hit weapons (hitscan) LG/SG/RG or MG.
In FFA games, you have to pay attention to how much players are getting hit. If a number of players are fighting and you only have a weak weapon like MG, shoot at the weakest player and try to steal the kill. When you see a player carrying a RG, you should not shoot him when you only have MG so that you don't draw his attention, unless you think you can finish him or when you can't escape from him anyway.
I can tell from watching your demo that you don't know how to strafejump (properly) yet. You seem to be pressing strafe while jumping forward, which give you a little bit of acceleration, but it doesn't come close to the speed you get from real strafejumping. Learn how to do circle jumps first; that's what you do to get speed quickly. Spectate some good players on servers and watch how they move. You'll notice they are doing a lot of sideways mouse movements. Btw while you're strafejumping during combat, you should use your time to look around for enemies. Don't just look straight ahead where you're running to. Look out for camping enemies up above, behind walls, corners, doorways, etc.
So the next time you enter the arena, remind yourself that the most important thing you need to do is actually stay alive. You do that by getting good weapons and armor.
The next step is to decide how to approach an enemy. Always use the proper weapon and make use of opportunities to hit targets when you're not in combat. When you see someone in the air at q3dm6, grab your RG/LG/SG or MG and shoot. When using rail, make SURE your crosshair is on the target before you shoot. Don't be afraid you'll shoot too late because you'll almost certainly miss when you quickly shoot where you *think* you'll hit. The same thing goes for aiming with SG, although more timing is involved with that weapon. The trick with SG is _not_ to keep tracking your target but to hold the crosshair still at the spot where he's strafing to. Aiming takes time so if you try to shoot where your opponent is, you're already too late. So aim where your opponent will be in half a second and just time the shot with very little adjustment of your crosshair.
Try to shoot more at players' feet with rockets too.
Another remark about your movement: make sure you can easily walk in circles with your movement keys. It's very necessary to be able to move backwards properly while aiming and shooting at opponents. So try to break your habit of running forward at every spawn and run to good weapons+armor first. Then head to areas where most fights take place and make kills. Retreat when you're low on health.
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foralarx2k3
- Posts: 306
- Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:56 pm
Without trying to bog you down with too much info, I like to add to Oeloe's comments.
Playing on a server that packed is always going to be a hard learning curb and people will often lose interest and drop the game as a whole because of this. Try to play on a server will a slightly less player load or even try a few games against a couple of Nightmare or Higher level bots with a time and frag limit set. Setting a time and frag limit will push you to confront the bots should you want to win the round.
A the same time however this will give you a little more breathing space and allow you to focus on the important sections and items of the map. This will in turn allow your awareness in more packed games to become sharper and give you the insight on where to head next to restock or move in for the kill.
Ensure you have the in game timer on and try to be aware of the spawn times for crucial items on the map. That way if you see them picked up / or you get to pick them up, a quick glance at the timer will tell you when it next spawns giving you an idea of when you need to be back to restock on that item.
I can't reiterate what Oeloe has already told you about picking up a more powerful weapon.. about three times in your demo you storm right past a decent weapon without picking it up... that's plain suicide in most cases on a level that packed.
Lastly above all else it's about having fun, remember that foremost. I can't tell you the amount of times I been fragged cause I'm laughing so hard at some silly little thing that's just happened.
Playing on a server that packed is always going to be a hard learning curb and people will often lose interest and drop the game as a whole because of this. Try to play on a server will a slightly less player load or even try a few games against a couple of Nightmare or Higher level bots with a time and frag limit set. Setting a time and frag limit will push you to confront the bots should you want to win the round.
A the same time however this will give you a little more breathing space and allow you to focus on the important sections and items of the map. This will in turn allow your awareness in more packed games to become sharper and give you the insight on where to head next to restock or move in for the kill.
Ensure you have the in game timer on and try to be aware of the spawn times for crucial items on the map. That way if you see them picked up / or you get to pick them up, a quick glance at the timer will tell you when it next spawns giving you an idea of when you need to be back to restock on that item.
I can't reiterate what Oeloe has already told you about picking up a more powerful weapon.. about three times in your demo you storm right past a decent weapon without picking it up... that's plain suicide in most cases on a level that packed.
Lastly above all else it's about having fun, remember that foremost. I can't tell you the amount of times I been fragged cause I'm laughing so hard at some silly little thing that's just happened.
Yep, i'm playing purely for fun too. I also like to take more risks than other people, trying to get more spectacular frags. Staying alive is still really the most important thing you need to do though. A good indicator of having average Q3 skill is to play the botmatches on nightmare level and try to stay alive at all costs and still hit the fraglimit before the other bots do. I did that with all 26 maps and made demos of most of them. 
You can get my demo's here: http://www.benji.scarlet.nl You can see in my demo that i really need to get _every_ powerup (quad most importantly) to beat the fraglimit before the other bots do. You see i'm struggling to survive on maps like dm4. It's very good practice to try to stay alive at all costs. One of the best things i ever did to get better anyway.
About what foralarx said: i always found playing on a TDM server easiest (1.30 Demon UK is quite noob friendly) because you can only get killed by half the players in the server.
You can get my demo's here: http://www.benji.scarlet.nl You can see in my demo that i really need to get _every_ powerup (quad most importantly) to beat the fraglimit before the other bots do. You see i'm struggling to survive on maps like dm4. It's very good practice to try to stay alive at all costs. One of the best things i ever did to get better anyway.About what foralarx said: i always found playing on a TDM server easiest (1.30 Demon UK is quite noob friendly) because you can only get killed by half the players in the server.
I've been coaching an enthusiastic housemate up in tourney play so I have a decent LAN opponent. Either he's getting better or I'm getting sloppy - the gap is narrowing.
I also have an ex-housemate living near who we scrim regularly with. He on the other hand is not improving at any notable pace.
The big 2 things they are doing differently are:
1. Self Motivation - When ex-housemate leaves for the night, he'll not go back to his house and take the game online and lose 50 matches and take demos and analyse them and bookmark cached and watch other demos and get new maps and read strategies and practice and *out of breath*. My housemate will do some of this though
2. Apply conscious improvements to his gameplay. I suggest that timing the armor is key to winning a tourney level - he puts this into practice for that evening and the next time he comes round he's back to just chasing me over and over and over and over again. Housemate is learning and improving. He forgets things, but a quick reminder and he's back to it.
This is the difference between a player who improves rapidly and one who will improve only in basic aiming etc and slooooowly over time - intelligence and motivation.
Honestly - I couldn't see a lot of this truth until I myself became quite skilled. From the perspective of one coaching a newer player, it's pretty apparent on how the new player should progress. It's not that apparent to the new player themselves.
I also have an ex-housemate living near who we scrim regularly with. He on the other hand is not improving at any notable pace.
The big 2 things they are doing differently are:
1. Self Motivation - When ex-housemate leaves for the night, he'll not go back to his house and take the game online and lose 50 matches and take demos and analyse them and bookmark cached and watch other demos and get new maps and read strategies and practice and *out of breath*. My housemate will do some of this though
2. Apply conscious improvements to his gameplay. I suggest that timing the armor is key to winning a tourney level - he puts this into practice for that evening and the next time he comes round he's back to just chasing me over and over and over and over again. Housemate is learning and improving. He forgets things, but a quick reminder and he's back to it.
This is the difference between a player who improves rapidly and one who will improve only in basic aiming etc and slooooowly over time - intelligence and motivation.
Honestly - I couldn't see a lot of this truth until I myself became quite skilled. From the perspective of one coaching a newer player, it's pretty apparent on how the new player should progress. It's not that apparent to the new player themselves.
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I cant spell u
- Posts: 1328
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:00 am
For some quick tips, this has been touched up by others already though:
- You're not straffle(ing) properly. Musta watched jns art of straffle a bit too much. Anyway, at this point you're basically not covering a lot of ground the way you do it. It's almost as slow as just running without jumping.
- You need better dodging techiques. Random patterns is usually the key. Don't just let your opponent throw rockets at you etc. Strafe sideways to avoid his shots. Mix up which direction you strafe to not make obvious movements.
- Know when to retreat, to grab ammo and armor. In ffa, it would be best to find a good vantage point and kill a few people. Don't just run in the middle of 5 people because that will usually get you killed unless you have lots of ammo and armor. Camping in ffa isn't a bad thing here and there. You can pick off a few enemies before you move to a new area.
- Your aim could use improvement. Right now you seem to be doing a lot of blind-fire. In ffa you should learn to stick to one person and try to finish them off before moving your crosshairs on other enemies. If you don't, that other person will be fragged by someone else and you won't get the point. And you will probably die in the process too.
- You're not straffle(ing) properly. Musta watched jns art of straffle a bit too much.
Anyway, at this point you're basically not covering a lot of ground the way you do it. It's almost as slow as just running without jumping. - You need better dodging techiques. Random patterns is usually the key. Don't just let your opponent throw rockets at you etc. Strafe sideways to avoid his shots. Mix up which direction you strafe to not make obvious movements.
- Know when to retreat, to grab ammo and armor. In ffa, it would be best to find a good vantage point and kill a few people. Don't just run in the middle of 5 people because that will usually get you killed unless you have lots of ammo and armor. Camping in ffa isn't a bad thing here and there. You can pick off a few enemies before you move to a new area.
- Your aim could use improvement. Right now you seem to be doing a lot of blind-fire. In ffa you should learn to stick to one person and try to finish them off before moving your crosshairs on other enemies. If you don't, that other person will be fragged by someone else and you won't get the point. And you will probably die in the process too.
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I cant spell u
- Posts: 1328
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:00 am
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I cant spell u
- Posts: 1328
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:00 am