What if we're just the explorers and the dream world is the reality? Experimenting with things like LSD is pretty interesting, you come to wonder about things like how inhibiting inhibitors results in viewing the world going crazy.
So what if the dream world is more than just something in our minds, what if it's a collective of thoughts, of sharing information. What if our dreams forms our reality's quite litteraly? How do you know you are not just a dying version of yourself looking at your past life? Reliving it?
Think of it this way, when you go to sleep at night you can sleep for say, 5 minutes but your dream felt like it lasted an entire night. Even after we die and our bodies cease to function some part of the brain likely continutes to function on a cellualar level for probably a few minutes I would assume, what if those few mintues before death your mind slips into the same dreamlike state, where time, doesn't really mean anything, you could be in that state for what seems to be an eternity, or is it an eternity? And if you can is this real?
Think there might be more to dreams?
ok i'll bite
the reason we can be sure our waking lives really are our waking lives, is that on any given day we can remember what we did yesterday or last week or last year. in dreams, you never remember your last dream. likewise, while awake we can remember our dreams, but while dreaming, we never remember what we did while awake
if you laid off that shit for 5 minutes krackass you might give your brain a chance to do some serious thinking instead of the lame-ass crap you squeeze out instead
the reason we can be sure our waking lives really are our waking lives, is that on any given day we can remember what we did yesterday or last week or last year. in dreams, you never remember your last dream. likewise, while awake we can remember our dreams, but while dreaming, we never remember what we did while awake
if you laid off that shit for 5 minutes krackass you might give your brain a chance to do some serious thinking instead of the lame-ass crap you squeeze out instead
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Guest
Oh you think it's that simple do you? 
How do you differentiate you're waking life from your dreaming life? The way you can remember things? I would wager you probably "remember" more things when you dream then when you're alive. You're sub conciousness doesn't have any of the barriers it normaly has, this is how it regenerates itself. It's a little like breathing isn't it? Like holding your breath.
My point though is that even though you can remember your dreams and what you did the day before you can also remember your dreams, and even your dreams have different chapters you could call them but time as I was talking about isn't a factor. Ever try to look at a clock in a dream?
The point is how do you apply time to a timeless universe? You can't apply waking life physics to a dream world where the only physics are determined by the dreaming mind.
But in this dreaming mind lies the key to a lot of questions because before you pass on you will probably go into this dream world but how long will you be there if you're dreaming and time has no meaning?
How do you differentiate you're waking life from your dreaming life? The way you can remember things? I would wager you probably "remember" more things when you dream then when you're alive. You're sub conciousness doesn't have any of the barriers it normaly has, this is how it regenerates itself. It's a little like breathing isn't it? Like holding your breath.
My point though is that even though you can remember your dreams and what you did the day before you can also remember your dreams, and even your dreams have different chapters you could call them but time as I was talking about isn't a factor. Ever try to look at a clock in a dream?
The point is how do you apply time to a timeless universe? You can't apply waking life physics to a dream world where the only physics are determined by the dreaming mind.
But in this dreaming mind lies the key to a lot of questions because before you pass on you will probably go into this dream world but how long will you be there if you're dreaming and time has no meaning?
"My point though is that even though you can remember your dreams and what you did the day before you can also remember your dreams, and even your dreams have different chapters you could call them but time as I was talking about isn't a factor. Ever try to look at a clock in a dream?"
That's a fucking gem.
That's a fucking gem.
Sigh.... ok, here you go...
There are two problems with your theory:
First, because our minds function more efficiently in the waking life, that becomes the real world. It makes no difference if the dream world is "real" or the waking world is "real" or the Matrix is "real". We function and perceive in the waking life, so our comprehension is relative to what happens when we're awake. That makes it the real world.
Dogs might view other dogs as brilliant kings of Egypt, and they may view humans as purple three-eyed ninjas, but it doesn't make a bit of difference to us because we don't base our perceptions on how they see things. Therefore, the "real" world is only what matters to our brains. By that argument, if you think dreams are reality, then you are, by definition, living in a dream world.
Second, your argument that the brain functions after death proves your theory wrong. You are basing the definition of death as when the body stops functioning. That means you're lending credibility to things that happen in the waking life.
There are two problems with your theory:
First, because our minds function more efficiently in the waking life, that becomes the real world. It makes no difference if the dream world is "real" or the waking world is "real" or the Matrix is "real". We function and perceive in the waking life, so our comprehension is relative to what happens when we're awake. That makes it the real world.
Dogs might view other dogs as brilliant kings of Egypt, and they may view humans as purple three-eyed ninjas, but it doesn't make a bit of difference to us because we don't base our perceptions on how they see things. Therefore, the "real" world is only what matters to our brains. By that argument, if you think dreams are reality, then you are, by definition, living in a dream world.
Second, your argument that the brain functions after death proves your theory wrong. You are basing the definition of death as when the body stops functioning. That means you're lending credibility to things that happen in the waking life.
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Guest
Hmmm yes I think the idea I'm not getting across here is how our brain interprets time.
Time is always thought of chronologicaly but I don't think of it this way, I've touched on this before but I dont' think anyone was following me, usualy mostly just flames but it's more of an constant instant, if that makes any sense to you.
It's like each moment, or instant is time, each existing and moving on to another instant but really it's the same one it just changed. Like your body has cells which die and regenerate themselves, an estimated what? 7 years? So in 7 year or so you could say your whole body has regenerated it'self completely so is it still the same you in there? You're a completely different person on a cellular level the only constant was the instant you were stuck in.
Well in the dream world that instant doesn't adhere to the concept of time as we know it in the waking world so what if the rest of your life, eternity, is it would be, is that instant before death where you're body is dead but the brain is still active at the subconcious level where the barriers, and inhibitors that are there in the waking world are all completely shut down, how long would that instant last in that deamlike state before death? Seriously you could relive you're entire life from birth on. It could last an eternity in that moment for that conciousness... It's that instant that's important to understand, and of course the idea of free will... Which I've been thinking about too.
You know how people say that we all have free will because of quantum mechanics and the fact that not all things are certain, that there's these tiny things that do random things hence you can never know the outcome leaving things to complete random things.
But how is that better than a deterministic view on the universe? How is everything happening randomly out of my control no matter how much we want to control it? How is that better than determinism, it's just organized chaos, but you're not in charge anymore than you are if it's organized and pre determined. This isn't free will either so we haven't figured that out either.
Time is always thought of chronologicaly but I don't think of it this way, I've touched on this before but I dont' think anyone was following me, usualy mostly just flames but it's more of an constant instant, if that makes any sense to you.
It's like each moment, or instant is time, each existing and moving on to another instant but really it's the same one it just changed. Like your body has cells which die and regenerate themselves, an estimated what? 7 years? So in 7 year or so you could say your whole body has regenerated it'self completely so is it still the same you in there? You're a completely different person on a cellular level the only constant was the instant you were stuck in.
Well in the dream world that instant doesn't adhere to the concept of time as we know it in the waking world so what if the rest of your life, eternity, is it would be, is that instant before death where you're body is dead but the brain is still active at the subconcious level where the barriers, and inhibitors that are there in the waking world are all completely shut down, how long would that instant last in that deamlike state before death? Seriously you could relive you're entire life from birth on. It could last an eternity in that moment for that conciousness... It's that instant that's important to understand, and of course the idea of free will... Which I've been thinking about too.
You know how people say that we all have free will because of quantum mechanics and the fact that not all things are certain, that there's these tiny things that do random things hence you can never know the outcome leaving things to complete random things.
But how is that better than a deterministic view on the universe? How is everything happening randomly out of my control no matter how much we want to control it? How is that better than determinism, it's just organized chaos, but you're not in charge anymore than you are if it's organized and pre determined. This isn't free will either so we haven't figured that out either.
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GONNAFISTYA
- Posts: 13369
- Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:20 pm
If you were in an explosion, you wouldn't see a damn thing. Also, you're a god damned moron.Kracus wrote:Viewing an explosion from the inside would seem more chaotic than seeing one from a safe distance would it not?
If you really like these topics and would like to explore what other tens of thousands of philosophers have had to say about it in previous milleniums, I suggest picking up a book.
Look man, I really don't even want to sound mean.Kracus wrote:
You know how people say that we all have free will because of quantum mechanics and the fact that not all things are certain, that there's these tiny things that do random things hence you can never know the outcome leaving things to complete random things.
But do you read what you post? If you do, you have no idea what the concept of free will implies.
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GONNAFISTYA
- Posts: 13369
- Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:20 pm
LOL.duffman91 wrote: If you really like these topics and would like to explore what other tens of thousands of philosophers have had to say about it in previous milleniums, I suggest picking up a book.
We all know sucrak has no intention of edumicating himself.
Why bother even wasting the keystrokes to suggest it? It's like telling a Republican to donate money to charities to improve their character.
And like a Republican....we all know sucrak won't donate money to anyone - especially street bums - because he can't be sure what the bums will spend his charity money on.
Who knows, perhaps we are all just virii in a petri-dish, examined by god-like creatures from another reality.
[i]And shepherds we shall be, for thee my Lord for thee, Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command, we shall flow a river forth to thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine patris, et fili, et spiritus sancti.[/i]
42
http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2006/0 ... itched.php
There is an important sequence of numbers called "the moments of the Riemann zeta function." Although we know abstractly how to define it, mathematicians have had great difficulty explicitly calculating the numbers in the sequence. We have known since the 1920s that the first two numbers are 1 and 2, but it wasn't until a few years ago that mathematicians conjectured that the third number in the sequence may be 42