Should gay men be able to legally adopt children?

Post by **LawL** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:39 pm

werldhed wrote:
Law wrote:Is every adult and school child in Holland in acceptance of homosexuality?
Who cares? Not everyone in the US is accepting of Jews, but that doesn't prevent them from adopting, does it?

I believe children are far more accepting of Jewish parents than gay males.

Post by **bikkeldesnikkel** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:40 pm

busetibi wrote:never, its law.
bzzt

never say never... bzzt

Post by **LawL** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:40 pm

bikkeldesnikkel wrote:
Law wrote:
bikkeldesnikkel wrote: Even if they would care, the psychological trauma would be totally up to the child itself and the children among him.

If you can accept gay parents and gay children who's to say it's not possible for (almost) everyone to accept them.

I myself as a child would not have had a problem with kids who had gay parents, so your theory of inherent homophobia is ruled out.
Simply because you as a small example representing the minority would not have had a problem with a child who had gay parents doesn't disprove the fact that the majority of children would feel differently.
But it does prove the fact it is not inherent in children.

Perhaps in a small minority example.

Post by **werldhed** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:40 pm

What we need here is someone who works with kids. I'd call up my friend and have him ask his students what they think, but he's on vacation right now.
tnf might add some insight, but his students are highschoolers...
Either way, I really must get to class. I have some papers to read before then.
happy arguing.

Post by **bikkeldesnikkel** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:41 pm

Law wrote:
bikkeldesnikkel wrote:
Law wrote: Simply because you as a small example representing the minority would not have had a problem with a child who had gay parents doesn't disprove the fact that the majority of children would feel differently.
But it does prove the fact it is not inherent in children.
Perhaps in a small minority example.

In my surroundings it's a definite majority. You're going really hard on the "inherent" argument. Didn't you agree with julios just a while ago that it wasn't?

Post by **bikkeldesnikkel** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:42 pm

werldhed wrote:What we need here is someone who works with kids. I'd call up my friend and have him ask his students what they think, but he's on vacation right now.
tnf might add some insight, but his students are highschoolers...
Either way, I really must get to class. I have some papers to read before then.
happy arguing.

very true, before you can even say if it's possible or not you should have a basic understanding of children's psychology.

Post by **busetibi** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:46 pm

bikkeldesnikkel wrote:
busetibi wrote:never, its law.
bzzt
never say never... bzzt

again i say, its LAW, it will never change,
ever!
bzzt.....

Post by **HM-PuFFNSTuFF** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:46 pm

*checks in on thread*

Yup.

Post by **Freakaloin** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:48 pm

this is a stoopid bigoted thread...of course its okay for gay men to adopt children...only haters think not...

Post by **bikkeldesnikkel** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:52 pm

busetibi wrote:
bikkeldesnikkel wrote:
busetibi wrote:never, its law.
bzzt
never say never... bzzt

again i say, its LAW, it will never change,
ever!
bzzt.....

I'm not giving up on law, there's always a chance in law. Law must see the light and change, so that others may...

Post by **busetibi** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:54 pm

Law wrote:
werldhed wrote:
Law wrote:Is every adult and school child in Holland in acceptance of homosexuality?
Who cares? Not everyone in the US is accepting of Jews, but that doesn't prevent them from adopting, does it?
I believe children are far more accepting of Jewish parents than gay males.

wtf?

anti-Semitism raises its head AGAIN

Post by **bikkeldesnikkel** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:55 pm

It's all about understanding that it's a problem with how we percieve things, not with our DNA or the composition of our brain which makes it impossible for us to accept gays. There's always a possibility.

Post by **busetibi** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:56 pm

busetibi wrote:so tell me [xeno]Julios, are you in favour of gay males adopting children?

Post by **HM-PuFFNSTuFF** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:02 pm

I know some gay couples who would be awesome parents.

Post by **Freakaloin** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:03 pm

better then abusive heterosexual parents...thats for sure...

Post by **Foo** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:12 pm

Again, better than foster care.

Post by **busetibi** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:13 pm

bikkeldesnikkel wrote:
busetibi wrote:
bikkeldesnikkel wrote: Children don't care about homosexual parents, they don't care if the kids are fat, kids don't really care about anything! Everything they do is on a very very basic level. They don't even understand what homosexuality or even heterosexuality is until a much older age, an age where they can be mature enough to understand and accept homosexuality.

can you define your idea of "children" and "kids" as in age please ?
I'm talking about ages 4-13 approx, the lower(?) school.

Once they reach 13 and up, it's the parents who can get their children to understand and accept homosexuality. I'll give that there will still be problems, but most can be avoided.

bikkeldesnikkel wrote:
busetibi wrote:my god!
do you have children?
in particular, daughters?
lol no, please do enligten me

my daughters are 10 and 12, they pay out on fat kids/ teachers at school every day (at home), when they're watching TV and talking between themselves, they ask/tell each other 'he's gay or he looks gay" or when they're watching mtv and an old clip comes on one or the other ask, "is he gay" ?
i was watching the news the other month and the gay madi gra(sp?) come on, both of them said "ewwww look at the gays "
this is solely from them.
no input from my wife or myself.

Post by **Transient** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:14 pm

Law wrote:
Transient wrote:By the way, I knew a gay kid in high school. He wasn't getting made fun of. He was a popular guy who had a bunch of friends. He was totally open about being gay and was very camp. His positive mentality no doubt contributed to his social status. Now if he can do it, why can't someone else who is one step removed? I would imagine that gay parents wouldn't elicit nearly the same response as someone being gay themself.
But I thought

Transient wrote:Being gay and having gay parents are wholly different things. To assume that they would both elicit equal teasing in school is simply ignorant.

...

being gay = lots of teasing
having gay parents = less teasing
neither = no predisposition for teasing

Hence my story about the kid who was gay, yet wasn't teased. If he can do it, why couldn't someone who has gay parents? Are you trying to use something I said earlier against me? Because the way I look at it, your quote only strengthens my point...

Post by **Ryoki** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:15 pm

Law can you explain this:

- I believe that the vast majority of children will not accept homosexuality until they reach a mature age, and even then a large portion will still not accept it (gay hostility is inherent).
- In the gay-friendly enviroment Julios described, a child would not have hostility towards gays (gay hostility is culture based).

Because to me, those are two opposite things that cannot both be true.

Post by **LawL** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:15 pm

bikkeldesnikkel wrote:
Law wrote:
bikkeldesnikkel wrote: But it does prove the fact it is not inherent in children.
Perhaps in a small minority example.
In my surroundings it's a definite majority. You're going really hard on the "inherent" argument. Didn't you agree with julios just a while ago that it wasn't?

I agreed it might not be in a really unrealistic scenario.

Post by **LawL** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:17 pm

busetibi wrote:
Law wrote:
werldhed wrote: Who cares? Not everyone in the US is accepting of Jews, but that doesn't prevent them from adopting, does it?
I believe children are far more accepting of Jewish parents than gay males.

wtf?

anti-Semitism raises its head AGAIN

How is saying children are accepting of Jewish parents anti-semitic?

Post by **LawL** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:19 pm

busetibi wrote:
bikkeldesnikkel wrote:
busetibi wrote: can you define your idea of "children" and "kids" as in age please ?
I'm talking about ages 4-13 approx, the lower(?) school.

Once they reach 13 and up, it's the parents who can get their children to understand and accept homosexuality. I'll give that there will still be problems, but most can be avoided.

bikkeldesnikkel wrote:
busetibi wrote:my god!
do you have children?
in particular, daughters?
lol no, please do enligten me
my daughters are 10 and 12, they pay out on fat kids/ teachers at school every day (at home), when they're watching TV and talking between themselves, they ask/tell each other 'he's gay or he looks gay" or when they're watching mtv and an old clip comes on one or the other ask, "is he gay" ?
i was watching the news the other month and the gay madi gra(sp?) come on, both of them said "ewwww look at the gays "
this is solely from them.
no input from my wife or myself.

Careful, you're bringing reality upon those that wish to argue with the assumption that we live in an ideal world. It's a dose of reality they aren't going to like.

Post by **bikkeldesnikkel** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:19 pm

Law wrote:In my surroundings it's a definite majority. You're going really hard on the "inherent" argument. Didn't you agree with julios just a while ago that it wasn't?

I agreed it might not be in a really unrealistic scenario.[/quote]
How is the scenario unrealistic? I don't see anything unrealistic about it. Gays being accepted is not a tall-tale fantasy story.

Post by **shadd_** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:19 pm

i know a guy(since we were kids)whos wife recently left him for another woman. they have 2 kids, a girl 11, and a boy 18.

the young girl was absolutely devastated, the fact her mother left for another woman really added to her devastation. however the older boy seemed to accept the fact and is none worse for wear.

he was mature enough to accept it but i think the young girls natural hetero instincts came into effect and crushed her emotions.

Post by **Transient** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:19 pm

busetibi wrote:my daughters are 10 and 12, they pay out on fat kids/ teachers at school every day (at home), when they're watching TV and talking between themselves, they ask/tell each other 'he's gay or he looks gay" or when they're watching mtv and an old clip comes on one or the other ask, "is he gay" ?
i was watching the news the other month and the gay madi gra(sp?) come on, both of them said "ewwww look at the gays "
this is solely from them.
no input from my wife or myself.

Out of curiosity, did you confront your kids about what they were saying?

Oh, and it's "Mardi Gras", BTW.