I have been working off and on on my first serious Q3 map for literally years now and with the renewed activity in the forum I thought I might be able to get a bit more input before I FINALLY release this map.
Added since previous beta: Two 2-way TP's and a lava hazard for the RA.
Screenies:
[lvlshot]http://www.budgetgraphics.com/q3maps/surgeon/shot0026.jpg[/lvlshot] [lvlshot]http://www.budgetgraphics.com/q3maps/surgeon/shot0027.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://www.budgetgraphics.com/q3maps/surgeon/shot0028.jpg[/lvlshot] [lvlshot]http://www.budgetgraphics.com/q3maps/surgeon/shot0029.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://www.budgetgraphics.com/q3maps/surgeon/shot0030.jpg[/lvlshot] [lvlshot]http://www.budgetgraphics.com/q3maps/surgeon/shot0031.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://www.budgetgraphics.com/q3maps/surgeon/shot0032.jpg[/lvlshot]
Download: http://www.budgetgraphics.com/q3maps/su ... 1-beta.zip
Q3 - surgeon3dm1 final beta
Just had a run around, it's very promising. What kind of feedback are you after? I'll have an opportunity to 1v1 test it after this weekend, probably late on monday if I remember.
I can give you visuals feedback right now if you like.
I can give you visuals feedback right now if you like.
"Maybe you have some bird ideas. Maybe that’s the best you can do."
― Terry A. Davis
― Terry A. Davis
Bloody hell. I didn't know you were still working on this. Last time I played this map would've been on my crappy old computer about a year ago – at least.
Must have another look.
[Later...]
Well, I've had another look. Most of the flaws that I can recall seem to have been ironed out, although some still remain, but you have to look for them.
I'd suggest removing or moving the column next to the cross-level launch pad overlooking the GL. (It's to the left of the pad when you look towards the RL.) When you're heading back towards that pad, it's easy to fly into the column with a little misdirected air control. The other thing I'd change is the depth of the lava beneath the RA. It only needs to be ankle deep to do its job. Pity id hadn't worked out how to do decent volumetric lava.
I think for ffa the level needs at least one more bot, perhaps two.
Looks nice and shiny. Now, stop procrastinating and release it.
Must have another look.
[Later...]
Well, I've had another look. Most of the flaws that I can recall seem to have been ironed out, although some still remain, but you have to look for them.
I'd suggest removing or moving the column next to the cross-level launch pad overlooking the GL. (It's to the left of the pad when you look towards the RL.) When you're heading back towards that pad, it's easy to fly into the column with a little misdirected air control. The other thing I'd change is the depth of the lava beneath the RA. It only needs to be ankle deep to do its job. Pity id hadn't worked out how to do decent volumetric lava.
I think for ffa the level needs at least one more bot, perhaps two.
Looks nice and shiny. Now, stop procrastinating and release it.
Thanks Anwulf, I moved the column to try to stop bots from going through that spot to jump down to the bottom level (they would stand there forever before jumping). However, since the bots still manage to squeeze in there, I might as well move the column back.Anwulf wrote:I'd suggest removing or moving the column next to the cross-level launch pad overlooking the GL. (It's to the left of the pad when you look towards the RL.) When you're heading back towards that pad, it's easy to fly into the column with a little misdirected air control. The other thing I'd change is the depth of the lava beneath the RA. It only needs to be ankle deep to do its job. Pity id hadn't worked out how to do decent volumetric lava.
I think for ffa the level needs at least one more bot, perhaps two.
@Foo:
Any kind of feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Cosmetic thingers: The light texture on the stairs seems overwhelming. Maybe if the light tex was every other stair it wouldn't be so obnoxious. Just my opinion.
The two launchpads that shoot you through the RL - the trigger brush is only waaayy on the end of the actual pad. You can stand ON the pad and still not be launched. Just feels funny to me, no biggie.
There's several tall regtangular boxes on the walls used for lights (like in the SG room) where the player could get caught on them in the heat of a firefight. Big clip brush on the wall or use the same light model used everywhere else?
I'm guessing this isn't a full light compile? If it is there's an awful lot of bright flat ambient lighting.
You can rocketjump up to the RL and then from there up to the beams above it. Don't know if that was intentional, or overlooked.
Looks real good overall.
The two launchpads that shoot you through the RL - the trigger brush is only waaayy on the end of the actual pad. You can stand ON the pad and still not be launched. Just feels funny to me, no biggie.
There's several tall regtangular boxes on the walls used for lights (like in the SG room) where the player could get caught on them in the heat of a firefight. Big clip brush on the wall or use the same light model used everywhere else?
I'm guessing this isn't a full light compile? If it is there's an awful lot of bright flat ambient lighting.
You can rocketjump up to the RL and then from there up to the beams above it. Don't know if that was intentional, or overlooked.
Looks real good overall.
Without doing some playtesting when my housemate is around, I'll stick to visuals/form:surgeon62 wrote:@Foo:
Any kind of feedback would be greatly appreciated.
The biggest improvement I can think of would be made by throwing a lot more variation onto each surface - trim the edge of walkways, the tops and bottoms of jumppad chutes, stair corners, archways... the works. Aim for having few textures that touch other textures without a trim texture in between them. Break up large flat expanses of wall into layers of different textures and trims.
This will give the level a more fleshed out appearance and provides the extra quality that rises a level above more basic creations.
Second and connected to the first point, the level needs some optimisation in terms of VIS performance, what's drawn from each location and soforth. For example here:
Would be a classic candidate for going crazy with high detail - It's a secluded area away from the main atrium, and can sustain a larger tris count. But currently, the VIS situation is only very basic, so your triangle count is really high even though there's little detail in view:
Aside from those main points there's a few other things - Having the item markers suspended halfway into the air is very odd and it's not consistent across the whole map. The markers are good, but I think they would look better on the floor than suspended.
Cool map. I'd have to agree w/ Foo on the detail, and it's creating of r_speedy'ness. I don't usually see many maps that chug. Minded.. I'm not telling you to make an ugly map...hehe, it's just not going to be a highly playable map like it is, while looking good and detailed. Kinterra runs smoother though...and that map is pretty hardcore in size and visually compared to this one.
Nice looking map nevertheless
Nice looking map nevertheless
I see your point here Foo. I am somewhat constrained by limited mapping time (the reason this map has taken years to produce - too much real life interferenceFoo wrote:The biggest improvement I can think of would be made by throwing a lot more variation onto each surface - trim the edge of walkways, the tops and bottoms of jumppad chutes, stair corners, archways... the works. Aim for having few textures that touch other textures without a trim texture in between them. Break up large flat expanses of wall into layers of different textures and trims.
). That said, I did set out to learn as much as I could from this first map, so I will do what I can to kick the visuals up a notch.This point concerns me more since I am clueless on the VIS optimisation front. I will need to review some tut's and get deeper into this because I have also noticed the performance problems with the map.Foo wrote:Second and connected to the first point, the level needs some optimisation in terms of VIS performance, what's drawn from each location and soforth.
Vis optimization and lighting (I am using ambient lighting on the worldspawn to help light the map) are two areas that I would especially like to gain knowledge on in the process of finishing this map.
Thanks again for the input. Let me know if you get a chance to do some play testing.
Last edited by surgeon62 on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
NP.Housemate is at work and I'm moving out tomorrow morning - So it might not be done for a while.
If you want to chat on IM some time I can help you get going with hinting and perhaps lighting too. I can even make some example maps to illustrate the process, or add in a few examples to your own.
If you want to chat on IM some time I can help you get going with hinting and perhaps lighting too. I can even make some example maps to illustrate the process, or add in a few examples to your own.
"Maybe you have some bird ideas. Maybe that’s the best you can do."
― Terry A. Davis
― Terry A. Davis
Nice map! The lighting is definitely off, though. When r_overBrightBits is set at 0, the wall lights look quite odd with no/partial halos. Hopefully you can make use of flares to fix this.
Screenshots with r_flares toggled and r_flareSize 75 on q3dm0:
Screenshots with r_flares toggled and r_flareSize 75 on q3dm0:
Foo, I'm not set up for IM, but at the risk of you guys seeing many other things I've done wrong on this map, I have added the map file to the download link above. If you get a chance to actually illustrate some points by modifying the map, I am sure I will have an easier time grasping concepts.Foo wrote:If you want to chat on IM some time I can help you get going with hinting and perhaps lighting too. I can even make some example maps to illustrate the process, or add in a few examples to your own.
Hex,Hex wrote:Cosmetic thingers: The light texture on the stairs seems overwhelming. Maybe if the light tex was every other stair it wouldn't be so obnoxious. Just my opinion.
Thanks for the input. I tried using the texture every other step and it does look better. I'm also working on the other suggestions you made.
I am going to clip those off. Although it is kinda cool to go up there.Hex wrote:...You can rocketjump up to the RL and then from there up to the beams above it. Don't know if that was intentional, or overlooked.