Intelligent Americans

[Tsakali_]

with the exception of that that island that is full of virgins

[Tsakali_]

I can't get that link to work right now, but there is a show in the usa called "street smarts" where they have 2 contesants and they are shown pictures of three random people in the street that the gameshow host has already asked questions of, and the 2 contestants need to guess which one of the street morons got the answer wrong/right...besides the obvious ingorance of the unsuspecting street victims what's funny is that the 2 contestants are just as dumb since they neer realy have to anwser but when they do (special round) they fail miserably

so basicaly it's a show of 2 idiots making fun of other idiots

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

America stopped properly funding its public education system 25 years ago.

[Tsakali_]

I know the real reason the education system is down the crapper but I don't want to start a bitter flamewar.

hint: it has something to do with taking all the "retarded/uniterested" kids and putting them in "normal" classes, that shit just doesn't work

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

You think you do but you don't.

[Tsakali_]

you think that I think I do but I don't , but I do!

[bitWISE]

I know the real reason the education system is down the crapper but I don't want to start a bitter flamewar.

hint: it has something to do with taking all the "retarded/uniterested" kids and putting them in "normal" classes, that shit just doesn't work

Huh? When I was in school (graduated 2003) they had their own special classes unless it was something lame like phys ed or home ec.

[Tsakali_]

I know the real reason the education system is down the crapper but I don't want to start a bitter flamewar.

hint: it has something to do with taking all the "retarded/uniterested" kids and putting them in "normal" classes, that shit just doesn't work

Huh? When I was in school (graduated 2003) they had their own special classes.

I'm not talking about those kind of retards... here look at which us states have the poorest educational system and see what is the majority of the population.

[Nightshade]

America stopped properly funding its public education system 25 years ago.

I'm interested to hear what prompts you to make this statement. What do you think proper levels of funding are? Can you point to specific districts that lack said funding?
I ask because the Charlotte-Mecklenburg school district down here goes through SHITLOADS of cash, and the entire system blows.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

check this out...

http://www.pacificresearch.org/pub/cap/ ... 06-23.html

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

but whereas they are spinning it as good, i contend it's bad

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

question for Americans.

What were you taught about Vietnam in high school?

[Fender]

but whereas they are spinning it as good, i contend it's bad

Just curious. Why?

re: Vietnam. Almost nothing. For reference, I was graduated in 1990 in the top 10 and our school system was actually quite good.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

because it essentially led to two tiers of education in America in an attempt to disempower poor Americans who would benefit enormously from access to a proper education.

Reagan and his ilk want an uneducated underclass because educated poor people tend to point out the unfair nature of our economic and social systems etc.

[Denz]

question for Americans.

What were you taught about Vietnam in high school?

That it was a fucked up war and we shouldn't have been there.

Oh wait,,, Iraq.... Who says we learn from our mistakes?


Oh btw, I have an Uncle that was in Vietnam. He built Air Strips for the Corp of Engineers. He doesn't talk about it much because I guess it was horrible.

[Dukester]

question for Americans.

What were you taught about Vietnam in high school?

Nothing. I graduated in 1980, it wasn't old enough to be history yet

[Fender]

because it essentially led to two tiers of education in America in an attempt to disempower poor Americans who would benefit enormously from access to a proper education.

Reagan and his ilk want an uneducated underclass because educated poor people tend to point out the unfair nature of our economic and social systems etc.

I just don't understand that viewpoint. Things like vouchers and school choice and merit based teach pay and measuring results instead of raw spending can only improve the level of education. How does that segregate the rich and poor? Giving people options can NEVER make them worse off.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

the problem is, not everyone gets options and funds are diverted from schools in need to fund these options.

as well there's much less accountability in private schools than you think

check this out...

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:gg4 ... =clnk&cd=6

[Fender]

Sorry, but that's nothing more than lobbying. I don't buy ANYTHING written by NCPE. All they are is a front for the teacher's unions. And teacher's unions, besides methods of funding, are one of the biggest problems with the public school system here in the US. The mediocrity of our system is the direct result of incompetent teachers and them being supported by their union and getting paid the same as good teachers.

The NCPE doesn't want vouchers because that would mean that teachers start to be judged on their performance and paid accordingly. And to put it simply, that would be really bad for most teachers.

[Massive Quasars]

Vouchers increase oppurtunity and foster competition between schools. Money is not the problem, ever more is spent with diminishing returns. They aren't held accountable for their performance, forcing them to compete against other schools makes them accountable to some degree.

Western european countries seem to have some success retaining this competitive component.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

Vouchers increase oppurtunity and foster competition between schools. Money is not the problem, ever more is spent with diminishing returns. They aren't held accountable for their performance, forcing them to compete against other schools makes them accountable to some degree.

Western european countries seem to have some success retaining this competitive component.

ever more is spent with diminishing returns?

that's b.s. less and less is being spent.

as well studies show that children in charter schools are not performing better than those in regular public schools

mq you seem to be on a big 'competitiveness' kick lately. you do realise that's a catchphrase for 'privatized' and often has nothing to do with efficiency right?

for example, i wonder what both you and fender make of a study like this... http://www.alternet.org/story/40951/

[R00k]

Money helps when it goes toward paying better salaries to teachers.

I don't care how competitive you make the market -- as long as you have some low-rent ex-coach who is happy with $25,000 a year teaching kids, then those kids are not going to have a good learning experience.

Or put more succinctly they're not going to learn shit, except how to slack off, take shortcuts and be prejudiced.

Also, standardizing performance measures and basing education decisions on them is a recipe for disaster, because then test scores become an end unto themselves, and even teachers and administrators start to find ways to artificially inflate their test scores to get a bigger budget, and even just to get their own pay raises.

[Fender]

ever more is spent with diminishing returns?

that's b.s. less and less is being spent.

That's plain and simple false. We continue to spend more and more per student with slim to no improvements.

Reading now...

[Massive Quasars]

ever more is spent with diminishing returns?

that's b.s. less and less is being spent.

as well studies show that children in charter schools are not performing better than those in regular public schools

mq you seem to be on a big 'competitiveness' kick lately. you do realise that's a catchphrase for 'privatized' and often has nothing to do with efficiency right?

Full privatization (i.e. total abolishment of public schools) is not what's being tabled here. I'll admit I'm a little skeptical of that myself, but the atmosphere in the US seems downright hostile to the notion of increased competition in this area.

for example, i wonder what both you and fender make of a study like this... http://www.alternet.org/story/40951/

I'll address this later today if I have time, it's unrelated to public schooling.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

ever more is spent with diminishing returns?

that's b.s. less and less is being spent.

as well studies show that children in charter schools are not performing better than those in regular public schools

mq you seem to be on a big 'competitiveness' kick lately. you do realise that's a catchphrase for 'privatized' and often has nothing to do with efficiency right?

Full privatization (i.e. total abolishment of public schools) is not what's being tabled here. I'll admit I'm a little skeptical of that myself, but the atmosphere in the US seems downright hostile to the notion of increased competition in this area.

this so-called increased competition has existed since the 80's and the education system has gotten worse not better