Quake 3 and Quake 4

[Infernis]

Please note that I did not post this thread in a attempt to claim that Quake 3 is dead or that Quake 4 never lived. I'm also aware of Quake 3 maps still being released on a regular basis and that numerous people still play the game online. I've seen several Q4 maps but since I didn't get into the MP, I'm not sure if it's succesfull or not. I've only heard and read that it's not, but nobody ever came with facts. I'm posting this for some personal advise and not to be stepping on anyone's toes. Thank you.

Quake 3:

I'm looking for a forum site which is still active and concentrates on competitive maps. I know of Promode but even that seems to slowly decline. Ofcourse there's this site and although you can find everything here. I'm still hoping that there is a place I'm unaware of.

Quake 4:

I've been messing around with the editor for quite some time now. Because I'll eventually have to switch if Quake 3 really dies. Perhaps I should have switched already. But, where must one go for an active, competitive mapping community? There's some cool stuff here and over at Doom3world but surely that isn't everything?

I want to focus more on competitive mapping in hopes to get my maps some servertime. Untill now I've been busy with experimental and fun maps. So I'm new to the scene. I've been reading lots of articles for the past couple of days regarding competitive design, especially on the Promode site.

But since a lot of people are shouting that mapping is dead, Quake 3 + 4 are dead, modding is dead, etc. I'm confused as to where to go next. I don't want to map for a game that nobody is playing. I take it you guys get the point.

Thanks

[Foo]

You can't switch to D3 or Q4 if you want to map for an active community. Q4's got as little or less community around it than Q3.

You might want to look at the UT community for a move at this time. It's active and well centralised around the atari forums. And UT2007 is just around the corner.

[seremtan]

or for that matter try the source mapping community, which is very much alive and kicking, mostly with people making CS:S maps, but there are still a surprising number of SP mods being made, some of them quite good. also, valve (along with epic) provide an enormous amount of support to the modding/mapping community for their respective games

[wviperw]

I'm looking for a forum site which is still active and concentrates on competitive maps. I know of Promode but even that seems to slowly decline. Ofcourse there's this site and although you can find everything here. I'm still hoping that there is a place I'm unaware of.

The Promode forums are pretty much the only Q3 competitive mapping forums there are that I know of. And they're more active than they look. There's more lurkers than posters.

[telmarine]

Please note that I did not post this thread in a attempt to claim that Quake 3 is dead or that Quake 4 never lived. I'm also aware of Quake 3 maps still being released on a regular basis and that numerous people still play the game online. I've seen several Q4 maps but since I didn't get into the MP, I'm not sure if it's succesfull or not. I've only heard and read that it's not, but nobody ever came with facts. I'm posting this for some personal advise and not to be stepping on anyone's toes. Thank you.

Quake 3:

I'm looking for a forum site which is still active and concentrates on competitive maps. I know of Promode but even that seems to slowly decline. Ofcourse there's this site and although you can find everything here. I'm still hoping that there is a place I'm unaware of.

Quake 4:

I've been messing around with the editor for quite some time now. Because I'll eventually have to switch if Quake 3 really dies. Perhaps I should have switched already. But, where must one go for an active, competitive mapping community? There's some cool stuff here and over at Doom3world but surely that isn't everything?

I want to focus more on competitive mapping in hopes to get my maps some servertime. Untill now I've been busy with experimental and fun maps. So I'm new to the scene. I've been reading lots of articles for the past couple of days regarding competitive design, especially on the Promode site.

But since a lot of people are shouting that mapping is dead, Quake 3 + 4 are dead, modding is dead, etc. I'm confused as to where to go next. I don't want to map for a game that nobody is playing. I take it you guys get the point.

Thanks

in regards to quake4, if you're making a duel or TDM map that is focused for competitive play, esreality.com is pretty good place to get this kind of feedback. I have seen GODLIKE get lots of feedback for his 1v1 map as well as phantazm (although he has put it on hold).

the site is also probably good for quake3 too. Either one.

[spookmineer]

I have the feeling that most of the 1v1 Q4 maps played on events are custom made instead of default maps. On the other hand, it's hard to get your map into the map pool for these events...

Good looking maps score in the movie making community for obvious reasons, there are some not very well known maps in some Q3 movies, just because they look so good. Maybe a bit of a cameo though.

[GODLIKE]

Just to nod in agreement with the above..

I get way, way more feedback from ESR and the Q4max forums than anywhere else, when mapping for Q4. And, I get the impression that Q4 is far from dead; PR 1.3 has really revitalized the game. :icon31:

Still, UT2007? The man's got a point. (And mapping for the 2007 engine is likely going to be similar to the 2004 version, if you're into that sort of thing.)

[Infernis]

Foo/Seremtan: I've considered both options and I even downloaded the Source SDK. I'll look into it a bit further but I'm kinda wary due to all the warnings I got from people and the negative stuff I read regarding the editors. But that's other people their opinions and the only way to really find out is to do it myself. But I even heard things like Source doesn't have patches????

Wviperw: I once posted an alpha there and Swelt gave me great feedback but no one else replied. I browsed through it last night and didn't see an lot of active threads. So that matches your statement. I guess the question that remains for Quake 3 is that if I'm too late to enter the competitive scene?

Telmarine/Godlike: I'll look into ESR and Q4max. Thanks for those suggestions.

Spookmineer: Still lurking around these boards mate

[hemostick]

I have the feeling that most of the 1v1 Q4 maps played on events are custom made instead of default maps.

In fact, no raven/id map is played at 1v1 events, as lost fleet (TMP, not even the original) got dropped months ago. The tmp/modified versions of other maps didn't really make it past early 2006.

The little tdm that happens is played entirely on tmp versions of stock maps, though - apart from swelt's ever in beta, aptly named "better than nothing".

Back to tools - I would tend to agree on the suggestions to get familiar with UT, if only because there seems to be a large mapping scene, and unrealed is pretty nice to work with. Plus there is indeed 2k7 coming up, and its editor should still be quite close to the current.

[Hipshot]

Foo/Seremtan: I've considered both options and I even downloaded the Source SDK. I'll look into it a bit further but I'm kinda wary due to all the warnings I got from people and the negative stuff I read regarding the editors. But that's other people their opinions and the only way to really find out is to do it myself. But I even heard things like Source doesn't have patches????

Hammer > GTKRadiant. In many ways, not all though.
Q4/D3ED < GTKRadiant. On everything except the realtime editing...

And yes, Source doesn't have patches. It's a Q3 thing. To do "anything" unique source almost forces you to learn to model, that is not a bad thing, but you need time.

[seremtan]

actually, displacements can be used as patch substitutes in source, though you need an external displacement prefab maker to do it. there is one, but i forget the name of it

tbh i never liked patches anyway...

[seremtan]

oh, and

Hammer > GTKRadiant

:icon14:

[Hipshot]

actually, displacements can be used as patch substitutes in source, though you need an external displacement prefab maker to do it. there is one, but i forget the name of it

tbh i never liked patches anyway...

So there's one now? When I first started source I thought that displacements could be used as patches for arches etc, but since they worked like they did in hammer, it was impossible to have control over shapes like that...

[wviperw]

Wviperw: I once posted an alpha there and Swelt gave me great feedback but no one else replied. I browsed through it last night and didn't see an lot of active threads. So that matches your statement. I guess the question that remains for Quake 3 is that if I'm too late to enter the competitive scene?

Are you too late for the Q3 competitive scene? If you would've asked me that 6 months ago I would've said a definite yes, since Q4 was at that time the only FPS used competitively. But since then, the CPL has chosen Q3 as its primary platform which has opened the door for new 1v1 maps to be created. Players didn't want to play the same old maps like dm6, and have clamoured for new maps. Currently they are using a few new maps, but there still seems to be room (albeit, not much room), for more maps.

[seremtan]

actually, displacements can be used as patch substitutes in source, though you need an external displacement prefab maker to do it. there is one, but i forget the name of it

tbh i never liked patches anyway...

So there's one now? When I first started source I thought that displacements could be used as patches for arches etc, but since they worked like they did in hammer, it was impossible to have control over shapes like that...

here is the app:

http://www.violator.eclipse.co.uk/disped/

DispEd is a utility designed to be used with Valve's Hammer editor to allow various customisable geometric shapes to be created using Displacements for HL2 and CS:S maps in the style of the Patches of the Q3 engine. The built-in editor for displacements is great for editing terrain but not so good for precise shapes. DispEd is designed to address this issue by allowing the creation of -

* 2d Curves
* Arches
* Bevels
* Triangles
* Corners

screen:

[StormShadow]

in regards to quake4, if you're making a duel or TDM map that is focused for competitive play, esreality.com is pretty good place to get this kind of feedback.

Heh, I can vouch for that. I got about 4 replies at q3w for my most recent q4 map in comparison to over 130 at ESR. ESR has a very active q4 community - unfortunately, its about the only place.

But since then, the CPL has chosen Q3 as its primary platform which has opened the door for new 1v1 maps to be created. Players didn't want to play the same old maps like dm6, and have clamoured for new maps. Currently they are using a few new maps, but there still seems to be room (albeit, not much room), for more maps.

The same 5 maps have been played for the last 4 years, I really don't see any change anytime soon. The one thing I didn't like about q3 is that the competetive community (with the exception of the CPM community) got stuck in a rut in terms of which maps were played. The q4 community at least likes to change things up a bit, as I have seen a number of maps cycled in and out of rotation at tourneys. But then again, neither game has very active communities.

[GODLIKE]

It occurs to me actually that if you wanted your map to be adopted at a competitive event, you could think about making a Q4 TDM map (as hemo said, above)... Only modded stock maps are currently in rotation; there's a huge need for better TDM maps there. (Sandstorm for example needs to go far, far away, imnvho.)

[wviperw]

GODLIKE has a point. Q4 TDM 2v2 and 4v4 are currently in dire need of maps but nobody has really come through on this front.

[GODLIKE]

(Speaking of "longtime in beta".. What's the story with Cobalt?)

I wish I had actually played more TDM.. it would be a neat subject to map for, but I'd be kinda out on a ledge, since I really don't have that much experience with the gameplay.

[Silicone_Milk]

Hammer > GTKRadiant.

I tried out Hammer for a while but I never was comfortable with the controls and always felt awkward with it.
I eventually just ended up using GTKRadiant to build the geometry and placing the entities and finer details in with Hammer.

[wviperw]

(Speaking of "longtime in beta".. What's the story with Cobalt?)

I wish I had actually played more TDM.. it would be a neat subject to map for, but I'd be kinda out on a ledge, since I really don't have that much experience with the gameplay.

I released that months ago... :P

[GODLIKE]

!! So you did.. How'd I miss that.. I just read the dev thread at Q4Max forums.. oop.