"Mommy says I'm special" - Map theory

Post by **GODLIKE** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:32 pm

axbaby wrote: if i do release a map it will be anonomous in case my name is part of the reason for failure.

This strikes me as sad, buddy. I admit I didn't really dig your last map, but I certainly wouldn't hold it against you. In fact, I'm more likely to download a map from a guy who's made four or five maps even if I thought they ALL blew.. And you're not in that boat. Believe me, worse things have been done with the editor, not to identify any culprits.

I think you should keep at it. Your last map had some neat architectural ideas, even if the overall vision didn't really come together. I hereby offer to beta test. :icon31:

Post by **pjw** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:28 am

ax, is there any reason you can't just map at your leisure and work at a more relaxed pace? Hell, self-imposed 16 hour a day crunch mode doesn't really match up with "don't rush your map out the door". That being said...

axbaby wrote:if i do release a map it will be anonomous in case my name is part of the reason for failure.

Agreed with GODLIKE; that's waaayyyy too angsty for words. I've never, ever came close to thinking "Wow, that guy sucks" or whatever you're thinking, and no one else has either, I'm willing to bet. Quit it.

Instead of getting all intense, maybe just map at your leisure and try to enjoy the process more instead of making it another death march? Just my $0.02.

Post by **axbaby** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:49 am

i have a great life but my life is work work work and no play.
i consider mapping my alter ego .. 11 months i live adventures unimagintable .. 1 month i pursue a passion i've had of making computer games since i had my first computer 25+ years ago.
i failed learning to code but found something
with computer games i could possibly do.

i have ZERO time to map 11 months of the year .

disregard what i posted about not releasing it under my name .. i wasn't meant to be angty .. it would have been my way of assuring my past failures didn't affect any possible new releases.

i feel like a sap now

please move on ..i don't want to derail the thread

Post by **GODLIKE** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:00 am

Don't sweat it. But you may enjoy it more even if you make, say, half a map in your month off, maybe release a beta.. and then come back 11 months later and work on it some more? I know it would take forever to finish, but you'd have fun, learn lots of neat stuff...

On the subject of 'building your own brand', tho, maybe warning everybody "my map WILL suck" seems a little counter intuitive?

For example, I'm working on a map now.. In a perfect world, it will get done before Jan 30th, but it probably won't.. and I'm going to live with that just so I don't have to release something half baked.. Besides, I'm basically just hoping to have fun PLAYING all the new maps that will be out.

Speaking of formulas for success and brand building.. I betcha "winning a few mapping contests", and the current one is arguably the biggest for Q4 to date... Maybe we'll even see a new mapper or two come out of the woodwork?

** POST AUTHOR'S EDIT ** Having read this a bit later under the effects of much less cold medicine, I can say I don't actually know what I was trying to say in this post. Ignore.

Post by **voodoochopstiks** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:37 am

Who the hell changed the title of the thread? Who's the ass?

Post by **pjw** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:25 am

Hmmn. Maybe I'm just clueless. What was it before? (Obviously, I didn't do it.

)

Post by **v1l3** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:57 pm

it wasn't changed

Post by **GODLIKE** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:49 pm

Perhaps what poub meant with "mommy thinks I'm special" was a reference to 'how to determine feasible popularity'.. Your mom thinks you're clever, and likely as not, your friends from LAN think your Quake maps are great.... etc, etc.

At least, that's what I took it to mean..

Post by **poub_** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:04 pm

Yeah, imagine "Mommy says I'm special" said by Prozac in one of the esr-interviews. Meaning almost every map is great and creative and has ideas but how do you know which one really is the kicker? Many maps get great reviews and are deemed "special" but only a small handful make it to the servers and get playtime.

Post by **StormShadow** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:10 am

GODLIKE wrote:Perhaps what poub meant with "mommy thinks I'm special" was a reference to 'how to determine feasible popularity'.. Your mom thinks you're clever, and likely as not, your friends from LAN think your Quake maps are great.... etc, etc.

At least, that's what I took it to mean..

My grandma tells me im handsome..

Post by **Fjoggs** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:22 am

you naughty boy you

Post by **xfoo** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:06 am

ne_duel isn't played because it actually isn't a very good map

Having the right people involved in the mapping process to ensure proper beta testing, news posts, tournament involvement, etc, is the key to making a map successful. Great levels aren't made in a vacuum, and generally involve a multitude of people.

And just as Foo said, chance is a pretty damn big factor.

Post by **voodoochopstiks** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:36 pm

I was completely sure it had the same title as on the promode boards, but perhaps not...

Post by **v1l3** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:07 pm

I'd say every mapper that has made a reply in this topic, has definitely made a map that is worth playing, and some of you have made maps that have been played alot by many. Some of you guys are people that got me so hyped about this game to begin with(without stating names), that I've stuck with it over the years. Minded...I don't really know what maps axbaby and GODLIKE have made, so I have an un-existing opinion with them. You should all know what it's like to have made something that was cherished by many.

Where's some mappers that have made shitty maps, that were grabbed onto by many and overplayed? Is there a map that you guys think was an example of that sort of occurance?

Post by **voodoochopstiks** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:25 pm

Q3DM17/the Dm17 remix versions floating around(Q3), fy_iceworld/aim_ak_colt(CS), orange_arena(DoD:S), killbox(HLDM).

Usually a map so simple anyone can take it to its deepest tactical depth within 10 seconds of seeing it. Also extremely uninteresting combat with guaranteed frags for everyone(this is why I think they are so popular with many noobs).

Post by **Silicone_Milk** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:29 pm

voodoochopstiks wrote:Q3DM17/the Dm17 remix versions floating around(Q3), fy_iceworld/aim_ak_colt(CS), orange_arena(DoD:S), killbox(HLDM).

ugh. I hate killbox with a passion :icon33:

Post by **GODLIKE** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:55 pm

v1l3 wrote: Minded...I don't really know what maps axbaby and GODLIKE have made, so I have an un-existing opinion with them.
.. (snipped)...
Where's some mappers that have made shitty maps, that were grabbed onto by many and overplayed?

Ouch.

Re bad maps: I think because many of us in this forum are mappers, we're not that likely to get into a kickfest on other people's work.

I think q3dm17 was unique at time of release; it's longevity was ... surprising.

Post by **poub_** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:57 pm

Some people still insist in voting for dm17 on CA servers haha. Tourney2 is overhyped and not a good map at all, released today it would get a sound thrashing for symmetry and those jumppads and would probably end up in a ra3 mappack

Thinking about it, I know more beautiful maps that nobody plays or knows (for example "burning reminders" by mrlake, one of my fave maps) than ugly and bad maps that get played (like the aim maps etc).

Post by **v1l3** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:16 am

GODLIKE wrote:Ouch.

I wasn't trying to be an ass to you guys...just saying I haven't seen your work. Pop up a link => I always like new maps.

I was thinking on what I said a bit ago, and forgot one thing that kind of goes with the topic about timing of map release and such. mvdm01 by Munyul got 15,000 and some downloads over at ..::LvL, which set it's record as the most downloaded map ever made for q3a...the reason that it became so popular, is that instagib was such a huge mod at that time. The map is perfect for instagib..just as q3dm17 is. Both of the maps (imo)aren't very entertaining for normal gameplay. A mod made them highly loved by many. If it weren't for promode, cpm3 would have never gone where it has.

I think the mod's help with alot of them also...whether their perfect maps or not.

Post by **GODLIKE** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:29 am

v1l3 wrote: I wasn't trying to be an ass to you guys...just saying I haven't seen your work. Pop up a link => I always like new maps. ....
I think the mod's help with alot of them also...whether their perfect maps or not.

I didn't think you were being an ass at all, just being funny. :icon31: (Although you can feel free to look at some if you're inclined.)

I think the mod note is an interesting addition.. But maybe examining the degree to which a mod or gametype affects the popularity of a map is basically similar to what wviperw said about bonding with the community you're mapping for? It all matters, I guess.. the hard thing is playing all those factors successfully.

Post by **Scourge** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:40 am

I can vouch for axboobies maps. Played a few times on clanservers on his maps. Hella fun, and well deserved kudos. I'll add a link when I find one.

Post by **spookmineer** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:09 am

DM17 is ugly.
It's also a map loved by people who love "easy" mid air rocket kills and insta players.

And it is ofcourse one of the first tricking map where "everything seems possible".
I for one still enjoy seeing tricks on this map, even though it's possibly featured in almost every trickjumping movie to date.