Q3A - brahms alpha

Post by **broar** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:44 pm

Hi stroggos people,
--------------------------
I always wanted to modell a cityscape in a video game.
So i started this concept map in quake3.
It turned out gloomy and beautiful and.... has a high tris count.
I tried a foghull clipping but it didnt worked well.
It clipped per house and not per face. I read the foghull clipping in Q3A is just a workaround and uses information from the pvs.
Does anyone knows a good manual that tells how to define nodes by hand in a boxed map? I dont have experience in using hint or caulc and r_speeds says
"you have to tweak your map, friend!".
--------------------------
i hope you like the pics

broar

Post by **4days** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:22 pm

those pics look very nice

how much of it is set to detail? if you have a search here for 'caulk hull' then you might find some useful results. also, will anyone be able to get onto the rooftops in your map? if they can't (or wherever they can't) you could bring the sky down to meet the rooftop.

Post by **obsidian** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:07 am

Quite a nice looking map you have there. Only suggestion would be to add a few gutters and rainspouts, maybe a fire escape somewhere, and also to dirty it up a little to look more "realistic".

For hinting and optimization, see here

Post by **+JuggerNaut+** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:10 am

got some fucking atmosphere there. nice work.

Post by **wattro** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:21 am

/agree with obsidian

i would add some street lights/lamps and turn off more of the lights in the windows. it looks like half the town is awake, but no signs of any activity. maybe a tattered flag somewhere and a faint moon through the fog/clouds

looks very clean, but the atmosphere is moody. i would tend to dirty it up a bit more...

and i'm not sure why that building in the last shot has a thin base under it (maybe i don't know anything about architecture), but I would either pull it out and use it as a sidewalk type deal or abandon it and put the building right on the ground

Post by **broar** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:05 pm

I knew you would like it :icon25:
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The whole brushwork is set to detail and there is no access to the rooftops.
I will dirty up the map in a later state with texture variations, decals and models of streetlights, neons and other things.
The player can walk into the building in the last shot. Its a small warehouse with two floors.
@wattro: I make it a sidewalk - thanks.

Post by **Silicone_Milk** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:02 am

so, how long did it take you to make this?

Post by **pjw** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:25 am

The map looks very cool, but

broar wrote:The whole brushwork is set to detail

that doesn't sound good at all.

The idea is that you set fussy brushwork and complex stuff to detail, but leave large brushes that can help with visibility culling as structural, then add portalling to suit. If you set your whole map (other than the hull obviously) to detail, then you're ruining any potential for decent performance...

Post by **broar** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:30 pm

Youŕe absolutely right.

The map is one giant nice looking box. Nothing else.
It would cost more time to move geometry around, placing hints and caulcs then to plan a whole new map with descent gameplay in the same stile ;D
And thats the way i do :icon25:

Copypaste some houses... :icon32:
I read the tutorials about hinting and optimization. COOL!

so, how long did it take you to make this?

It took three days to do the brushwork and some time to do textures.
I made them and a draft of this type of house back in 2005.
Lets have a look:

Post by **Jemcdv** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:05 pm

Nice feel to the map! It looks like some place in europe, maybe london on a foggy night where jack the ripper could be lurkin' around any corner...

I also like the last pic with the building, it looks better than the ones you did in the q3 map version. Any chance you could make them the same?

:icon14:

Post by **Foo** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:42 pm

Since most of the buildings are inaccessible and you've set everything to detail... create a large block inside each building, which is almost as big as the building itself, but hidden inside the building. Then cover that block in the 'caulk' texture, and leave it as structural.

This is a quick dirty method of improving performance on a map like this.

Post by **dichtfux** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:56 pm

TheTruthfulLiar wrote: I also like the last pic with the building, it looks better than the ones you did in the q3 map version. Any chance you could make them the same?

I think the last image was rendered in blender, not the q3a engine. I remember seeing it at one of my last visits to broar.

EDIT: you were talking about the brushwork of course. simply ignore this post.

Post by **StormShadow** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:09 pm

very stylistic and interesting

Post by **broar** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:10 am

This map isnt dead.

I made tests with ase models, hint placement and normalmaps.
Today - YEAH - i started modelling the details.
It´s great fun! :icon25:

Post by **Kat** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:44 am

If that's meant to be an actual useable door be careful about it's size in relation to the games movement dymanics, *real* sized objects don't work to well functionally in Q3 so you'll only really be able to use stuff like the door as decor.

Thumbsup for using Blender 3D btw!

P.S. map looks likes it influenced by RtCW ;o)

Post by **Black_Dog** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:06 am

Nice texture, but the in game shot shows smoothing artifacts on the model (the lopsided dark triangle on the top beam, for instance). If you are exporting models from Blender you'll have to split some faces in order to get even vertex lighting, since smoothing information isn't exported correctly.

Post by **obsidian** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:02 pm

Couldn't you just disable smoothing on the model? It's a wooden beam with rectangular sides anyway, so there shouldn't be any smoothing to begin with.

Post by **broar** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:27 pm

Which one should it be?

Couldn't you just disable smoothing on the model?

How? The exporter doesnt export this right.

This model is game deco. A big playerclip makes it suitable for gaming.
Should i use useble doors (rotating) in a map?

P.S. map looks likes it influenced by RtCW ;o)

I´m from germany :P
Somewhere in my neighborhood:
Wurst und Bier. Wurst und Bier.

Post by **seremtan** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:09 pm

excellent portfolio shots :icon14:

Post by **Black_Dog** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:55 pm

The vertex lit, split faced model looks the most right to me. There's still some wierd shadowing happening on the panels, but that's one of the downsides of q3's vertex lighting model.

The other thing you could do is use split faces and lightmap it with a fairly high lightmapscale. That (should) look the best, at the expense of compile time and a little performance.

Post by **broar** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:44 am

I finished assets_doors... tomorrow windows.
Lightmapscale 0.5 looks flawless. :icon25:

Whats the use of seperating faces >and< using lightmaps?

Post by **wattro** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:01 am

looks so hot that i just threw water at my CRT...

Post by **Black_Dog** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:02 pm

Whats the use of seperating faces >and< using lightmaps?

Lightmap generation uses the same normals as vertex lit surfaces, so separating faces should help prevent smoothing artifacts from messing up your lightmaps. Of course, if you are getting nice lighting already there's nothing to worry about.

Assets are looking good there. :icon26: