Rats appear to reflect on their own cognition

Post by **plained** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:35 pm

i think dogs that spend time with peeps get smarter than dogs that jus hang with other dogs

Post by **MKJ** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:41 pm

just had to stop and say that I fucking despise Westies.

Post by **mik0rs** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:52 pm

Underpants? wrote: Oh you have one of those high-pitched, high-strung neurotic, big-eared pieces of white shit in your extended family too, eh?

Worse, in my immediate family

You've summed the little cunt up nicely

He does my fucking head in, chasing and biting your feet/trousers when you leave the room, knows perfectly well not to piss indoors but does it anyway, barks at anything remotely unfamiliar, alternatively barks and then squeaks if you ignore him.
He's lucky he's lived this long.

Post by **Wabbit** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:50 pm

I use to raise and feed mice to my snakes. I could tell from watching them that some knew they were fucked and it scared the shit out of them. Others would just walk all over, totally unaware until they got hit. I always pulled the ones that were aware out of the cage and made them pets. Snakes do need to eat, so it has to be done, but there is no way I'm going allow something to be that afraid when I can help.

Post by **Tsakali_** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:59 pm

why does prey try to run in the presence of a predator? under what category of explanation does that fall under? is it merely natural instinct for the propagation of the species? utilizing self awareness seems like a good way for nature to insure survival

Post by **Foo** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:30 pm

I was thinking about this on the walk to work today. How does this reasearch point to rats reflecting on their own abilities rather than just being an indicator of them being able to judge their success/failure rate on a strictly reactive basis?

What I mean is there's a distinction between 'I will not be able to do that because I am not capable' and 'I will not attempt this because its a lot of work and from past experience does not pay out well'.

Post by **R00k** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:34 pm

Tsakali_ wrote:why does prey try to run in the presence of a predator? under what category of explanation does that fall under? is it merely natural instinct for the propagation of the species? utilizing self awareness seems like a good way for nature to insure survival

Yes, it's a survival instinct. Humans possess it too - it's the classic fight or flight decision.

Post by **Survivor** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:46 pm

Just something which to include into the array of definition. LINKIES. Basicly scientist wiped a specific memory in rats

Post by **werldhed** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:52 pm

Foo wrote:I was thinking about this on the walk to work today. How does this reasearch point to rats reflecting on their own abilities rather than just being an indicator of them being able to judge their success/failure rate on a strictly reactive basis?

What I mean is there's a distinction between 'I will not be able to do that because I am not capable' and 'I will not attempt this because its a lot of work and from past experience does not pay out well'.

The fact that they realize that it will be a lot of work suggests they know if they are capable. The rats were still willing to work for it if they knew the test was easy, so they're making some distinction between what they can and cannot accomplish based on their intelligence.

Post by **Foo** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:56 pm

werldhed wrote:
Foo wrote:I was thinking about this on the walk to work today. How does this reasearch point to rats reflecting on their own abilities rather than just being an indicator of them being able to judge their success/failure rate on a strictly reactive basis?

What I mean is there's a distinction between 'I will not be able to do that because I am not capable' and 'I will not attempt this because its a lot of work and from past experience does not pay out well'.
The fact that they realize that it will be a lot of work suggests they know if they are capable. The rats were still willing to work for it if they knew the test was easy, so they're making some distinction between what they can and cannot accomplish based on their intelligence.

I'm still just seeing that an individual rat is capable of judging a test to be easy or hard... which doesn't imply that they're conscious of the notion of it being easy to them but hard to another rat, or vice versa... and if they can't weigh their ability against another rat in some manner, then I don't see how the rat can be said to be aware of its personal ability, which seems to be the implication here.

This doesn't logically imply to me that the animal understands its own capabilities, or can weigh their abilities against any other rat, but merely that an individual rat can weight the probability of success in a task which is has previously experienced... which I don't think is a new piece of information... we already know rats are capable of learning.

I dunno... either I'm missing something or it's being made out to be something that it isn't...